Psychosis ~What is it?

Duendy you keep using the term "disease", when nobody else has.
You also seem to believe strongly in the stigma - and whilst many people would make negative assumptions about people who are psychotic/schizophrenic, I would not.
I just don't think these people deserve to suffer - or kill themselves as they often do.

In fact, the stigma surrounding those suffering from mental illness/psychological problems/mood disorders etc is actually perpetuated by those who are uneducated - and think it is the fault of the sufferer!
(btw scientology believes in an alien warlord called "Xenu" that came to earth etc).

How is it inconceivable duendy, that things can go wrong with ANY other organ in the body - EXCEPT the brain? Because it offends your idea of how "special" you are?

So you acknowledge it is possible to have the "psychadelic experience" without having ever taken any substances such as lsd, mushrooms, cactus etc?

Then you must also be prepared to acknowledge that many people may NOT ENJOY this experience, and in fact find it terrifying?


Maybe duendy you are lucky and used to having "good trips" (although given your fear of society i'm not so sure). Many people have "bad trips", without taking any substances at all.

Duendy, some people hear voices that aren't there, see things that are not real (hallucinations), and it frightens them - really upsets them.
Its not a "disease" - its not caused by a pathogen as far as we know.

Its caused by the same types of biological processes that make the "psychadelic experience" possible in the first place!
 
Metakron, I would be fascinated to hear about what "places" you speak of!

Please can I join in the slander?

lol, you know Mohammed (the prophet) married a girl (called "Aisha") when she was age only 6, and "consumated the marriage" when she was only 9 years old? (after her first period)
He was 53 years old btw - its in their books.


People who have signed away all of their human rights to scientology have been deprived of their medication - even for things like epilepsy - and have ended up committing suicide or dying.
http://www.scientology-kills.org/

According to scientology - mental illness is a myth, a scam, and infact, to think "clearly" people must rid their bodies of "body thetans" - the spirits of the aliens that still cling to everyone - after the nuclear war.

For compulsory reading about scientology, aliens, and the anti-psychiatry movement, please read the amusing comic at the link below:
http://www.scientology-kills.org/laugh.htm
 
What fucks with my head is the gaslighting that goes on. Some truly devastating personal experiences can be created and triggered by people who work to convince a man that there is something wrong with him and his world. Then they have the unmitigated gall to insist that I am "paranoid" and that means they didn't actually screw my life around.
 
Quantum Quack said:
Maybe this may be a little off topic but:

I just noticed a possible relationship.
Most persons suffering paranoia mention being observed by the CIA. These same persons also complain about hearing voices and some will claim it is the voice of God.
Yet they believe they are being monitored by The CIA.

CIA = Central intelligence agency yes?

me))GREAT insight!

Well what is God? [ to the sufferer of paranoia]
See the connection?

me)))VERY much. btw 'parnoia' means 'besides oneself...? so we can see how the idea of 'Go' as its been indoctrinated by our culture/patriarchal culture is of an 'Eye of God' which constatly constantly watches 'his creatures'---like some glorified CCTV camera.

God is watching......as well as talking....etc....

Well my own philosophies about this is simply that we are all watching each other all the time subconsciously and it is little wonder that this sense of being watched will be interpreted as being God or CIA etc etc.....

me))damn right. becayse society's values are indoctrinated BY the 'God myth'. yes? ie., the moralistic views of that belief are imposed on all. tink of it like how so-called scular culture works. they incite neighbour to snitch on neighbour---fr 'welfare cheats' for people who use 'illegal drugs' for people who may be 'terrorists',...in 1950s it was snitch on the 'commies'. YES. so what this shit does is create paranpid-matrix all round. now some people--maybe the majority..? deny/refuse to SEE anything is wrong........? get me?

[of course this does not deny the possible validity of actual CIA involvement and that a person has an amplified awareness of all those cameras that are being used in public places these days some not very obvious either....]

me))of course. there is a real air of fear, and rightly so. we all are being watched and monitored. and if we is in the wrong place, the wrong 'class', the wrong colour, look, apppearance etc, then we are more likly to find ourselves under real treat

How many times have you used a public toilet wondering if there is a camera watching you take a s*it? ha
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tats what it is getting like fo sure!./.......great insights. seriously
 
I tend to think those who complain about being watched all the time are actually proving the notion of Universal consciousness. It's just that they are not aware of that field of philosophy and have to rationalise it down to the CIA or God because that is more acceptable than universal consciousness.

The issue being that if the notion of universal consciousness affords them a certain insight into their fear then possibly that fear is mitigated and understood within a rational that could be accepted.
Thus reducing the extreme behaviour that their fear is generating.
 
Quantum Quack said:
I tend to think those who complain about being watched all the time are actually proving the notion of Universal consciousness. It's just that they are not aware of that field of philosophy and have to rationalise it down to the CIA or God because that is more acceptable than universal consciousness.

The issue being that if the notion of universal consciousness affords them a certain insight into their fear then possibly that fear is mitigated and understood within a rational that could be accepted.
Thus reducing the extreme behaviour that their fear is generating.
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what i mean is/may take on what you said is: that patriarchal religious indoctrination has a HUGE part to play in te whole notion of so-called 'mental illness'. and you also mentioned--was it you, no it waa METKRON--the confusin paradox between science and religion?

now. i feel that all the mythical past has most definately NOT been reolved. feel me? that what has happened is a shift from one ontrolling paradgm to anoter. ie., it SEEMS that all the religious shit's been left be hind but it is still U conscios. and tis play ou/projects out.
THOSe of us who are sneistive tothis and the victims of it canbecome overwhelmed by tis double bind. the double bind is tis: you are not allowed to MENTION it even to yourself...!
i know only too well how tis actually plays out. especially at tis forum. i can see it all over. how many times i have stated about oppression and otes say 'nope. no oppression! you are -----' insult..! sae at some othe forums too

but bottom line. people Do feel fukin oppressed. yes they do, and togthe wit pressure from the State machinery, they also eel pressure from its effects on community, Nature, and so on. MASSIVE PRESSURE. some aren't aware why they are feeling like tey do, and they ask the shrink's advice. and hey presto are labeled mentally ill and/or coerced to take drugs, ECt and even can find emseles incarcerated. so sorry game goes on.
you seek to address it and the plyers in te filed accuse you of not really 'caring' for tese 'poor people' and all they want to do is 'help them' bla bla. but there is not getting throug to these people who want to 'help'. THEY themSELVES wont listen. so they dont really want to understand the roots of all this. they want to keep the myth going.
 
Huwy said:
Duendy you keep using the term "disease", when nobody else has.

me))dont BS me kiddo. you are really chagin the goalposts is all. it is so that bio-psychiatry has proclaimed presumably thru err 'sciencetfic backup' that mental illness is biological disease. maybe now you are trying to claim...what? if it is NOT A disease why do you give 'medication' for 'it'?

You also seem to believe strongly in the stigma - and whilst many people would make negative assumptions about people who are psychotic/schizophrenic, I would not.
I just don't think these people deserve to suffer - or kill themselves as they often do.

me)))all very well. but in actuality ther's HUGEstigma. the only time you read of 'schizophrenia' in the media is when it is being refered to negatively. so again, plase dont lie about tis. this is real for
tose labelled. you wishin it away doesn't make it so.
and see the sneakiness of how you conclude. you wanna 'help' them. that word 'help' has been the cover for so much fukin evil. some people want underSTANDING not 'help'. not lies that what they haveis biological disease. and uniformed consent. THA is not'helping'. that is lying and expliting them to make money, and keep your presige as 'shrink, doc, psychologist!

In fact, the stigma surrounding those suffering from mental illness/psychological problems/mood disorders etc is actually perpetuated by those who are uneducated - and think it is the fault of the sufferer!

me)))but errr this is exactly what the mindset YO defend does. you blame person for having a 'disease'. you do NOT look at the much larger picture. cause yo canny be arsed. you just want a quick fix and make yourselves seem powerful

(btw scientology believes in an alien warlord called "Xenu" that came to earth etc).

me)))whats this got to do with anything?? i am not a scientologist

How is it inconceivable duendy, that things can go wrong with ANY other organ in the body - EXCEPT the brain? Because it offends your idea of how "special" you are?

me))))hah...see how you contradict your self laddy. one mo you are 'suggesting' mental illness is NOT a biological disease and how you are 'insinuating' it is. you want to 'help' 'these people' yet are totaly confused yourself!
actually, behaviour is NOT a disease. go check a medical book

So you acknowledge it is possible to have the "psychadelic experience" without having ever taken any substances such as lsd, mushrooms, cactus etc?

me))))))people have experiences. ever been in love. ever been excited. ever had strage feelings etc. did you take pychedelics? people als have ha spiritual experiences in te past, which shrinks in their 'igore-any' history have catelogues as being guess what? 'mental illness'. yes we are human beings and have freedom to FEEL. what you do is pathologise tis natrual capacity.

Then you must also be prepared to acknowledge that many people may NOT ENJOY this experience, and in fact find it terrifying?

me)))of course. but this will be made MORE terrifying by having around them people who are fearful of such experience and who follow a materialistic ideology which is known for being hostile towards such experience,,,!


Maybe duendy you are lucky and used to having "good trips" (although given your fear of society i'm not so sure). Many people have "bad trips", without taking any substances at all.

me))))yes. and it is no supreise when you realize just how savagely oppressive tis cultur IS. apparently you do not? i am curious Huwy. what do you feel about tat. do you think ME mad?

Duendy, some people hear voices that aren't there, see things that are not real (hallucinations), and it frightens them - really upsets them.

me))how do YOU know thewy are 'not there'?these experiences have maning for tose that have them. you assuming they are meaning
less surely is not condusive for unerstanding what they are going thru?

Its not a "disease" - its not caused by a pathogen as far as we know.

me))well, if its not a disease, why do you recommend brain-damaging 'medication' for them then?

Its caused by the same types of biological processes that make the "psychadelic experience" possible in the first place!
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ohhhh haha, so you come in another dooor. you still feel it is biological--asin ' a biological disease that is making people trip'?
see the games you play?
 
Huwy said:
could you tell me about some of the "places" you lived in?
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Town about 10,000 population, somewhere near the geographical center of the continental United States, infested with a family clan that thinks itself above the law, recruits from the local rat packs for both marriage and help with the commission of crimes, and a lot of people who have some kind of power seem to be highly vicious against humans who are not part of their clubs.
 
Quantum Quack said:
I tend to think those who complain about being watched all the time are actually proving the notion of Universal consciousness. It's just that they are not aware of that field of philosophy and have to rationalise it down to the CIA or God because that is more acceptable than universal consciousness.

The issue being that if the notion of universal consciousness affords them a certain insight into their fear then possibly that fear is mitigated and understood within a rational that could be accepted.
Thus reducing the extreme behaviour that their fear is generating.
Click to expand...

They are aware of the universal consciousness, but they interpret it according to what they are taught. The UC is actually pretty neutral and will protect fools and even psychopaths because like a computer it does pretty much what you tell it to, a tendency that often bites computer users on the ass. This has a lot to do with why people who are incapable of guilt never seem to get caught doing anything until they are way out of bounds and those who do can't seem to make it to work in the morning when they are doing something completely legitimate and why they are so vulnerable to abuse. Shaming is often the deliberate stimulation of unjustified guilt.
 
A lot of mental illness comes from being victimized by people who practice real evil against other humans. The classic experiment is to use electric shocks to train a rat and shock him when he does anything, whether he tries to eat, or drink, or approach a female for sex. His own natural instincts force him to seek these things. Then he is hurt for seeking them. He eventually just sits in the middle of the cage and does nothing. The chances of recovery are not good.

Punishing a child for not doing things quite right is the same thing as punishing him or her for trying to do them at all. My powers of observation tell me that the people who escape punishment are not the ones who have learned to do things perfectly, even if the so-called caretakers of human beings say that they do. They are the ones who have been, on purpose, placed in a different category. They are often arrogant bullies, often enough that I think that it is the purpose to create such a class. A lot of people who are "under" them don't even want power any more because they are ashamed of the way the bullies do things.

There is learned helplessness, and the victim has been forced to see reality a very different way. Everything that was normal is now threatening. It is worse to someone who has received the concentrated abuse, but the more general idea of danger from the food that we eat, the air that we breath, and the living creatures that we might come in contact with has to be damaging, even toxic.

The damage done is enormous. A victim might well have made great contributions to society, but once he has learned helplessness, paranoia, fear, and depression, his contributions become much more limited. He cannot pass his classes or keep a job. It is not "just" having a bit more of an uphill climb, it is criminal actors deliberately forcing him to go through a hundred times as much pain and effort to do ordinary things, then knocking him off the ladder every once in a while out of sheer perversity and meanness.

The harder the victim tries, the worse he or she feels. He also sees that the people who have victimized him have jobs, have families, are somehow not suspected of being crazy and violent even though they are both in great measure. Somehoe even though this is the absolute truth, he is cast as some kind of crazy by mental health professionals for even thinking it.
 
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MetaKron said:
Oh God, I wanted to do a cheap shot here but I take this subject a little bit too seriously for that.

Psychosis is going outside of the "accepted" boundaries of society? We live in a society where the so-called normals deliberately blur the boundaries then they fuck up whoever they feel like. There is no way in Hell to know where you stand with all of this shit. If you can't know where you stand, the definition of something like "psychosis" depends on your social status, who is making the decision and which horribly repressive religion is in charge of your area.

QUOTE]

Wow... Thats putting it MUCH more Simple then I Could have :D
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Huwy said:
Phplatonica

Bi-Polar Disorder is a mood disorder, and
Alzheimer’s disease is a neurodegenerative disorder.
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Dude, I was Breaking Down Different Possibilities and PROBLEMS where "Psychosis" became a Situation or State for the Patient. Read it again.
 
In a hypothetical case, someone could decide that people who have been shot in the head have abnormal brains, if they were disciplined to ignore the fact that it took someone else's intervention to create the condition. I think that this is the case with mental illness. Many people have mental illness that was caused by other people. Psychiatrists usually assume that the mental illness was caused by a defect in the mentally ill individual without regards to the fact, even if they are aware of the fact, that the intervention of other humans in their lives damaged them and the ones who are damaged the worst are the ones who were interfered with the worst.

Being institutionalized or chemically restrained because of this is the most unjust kind of imprisonment. Having been there, I know that it is not treatment. It is deliberate punishment and abuse and benefits are incidental, not because of the plan but in spite of it.
 
MetaKron said:
What fucks with my head is the gaslighting that goes on. Some truly devastating personal experiences can be created and triggered by people who work to convince a man that there is something wrong with him and his world. Then they have the unmitigated gall to insist that I am "paranoid" and that means they didn't actually screw my life around.
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All right, Here's a Nasty little Story for you all... I have had 29 years to cope with and accept my experiences as just that. it Has not Been Easy. I was Diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder because many of the Confusions I faced Dealt with Real and "un real" Events that took Place in my life. My biological father was Diagnosed as a Paranoid Schizophrenic. He had many different "views" about life out side of what most people "accepted". When I was born, he felt a Connection, a place he could "teach me"... He had a Drug Addiction (Could Explain the Diagnosis) he also became a paraplegic in a car accident when I was 3, so He felt nothing From the legs Down..... So At the Age of Four, after a horrendous and Confusing YEAR with my Mother and the many things going on, I was Called into the bathroom where my Father was bathing. he loved me very much, this I don't Doubt. I remember the water was red. I was mute for a while after the accident, so I didn't say much, and If I did then I do not remember. But this Event I relive and have all my life... He picked me up and put me into the Bath with him. He had a razor blade. He was Carving things into his legs. That explained the Red water. he told me he could make many pretty Pictures and they would stay. He also told me how in Africa, the more scars you had in a certain tribe, the more popular you were. I mostly remember watching him cut deep into his legs though. He handed me the Razor and Said If I was his friend, I would Cut him, like they do in Africa. But I could not. Because to ME that would Hurt. I did not understand how he could not Feel it, because I could very well feel MY legs. So through Empathy I Dropped the Razor and Got out of the bath. He yelled at me. He said I was not his friend. This Devastated me. He Screamed at me to get out of the bathroom.
My Mother, a Truly Strong women was able to End the marriage and Safely pull me and My sisters away from this Crazy man. I do not know the horrors my older sister Endured with him, I only Remember Mine, and Since I was his Biological daughter, and she was not, I was more special. He made sure we both Knew that.
So.... I endured a LIFE of Counseling, confusion, my own "Psychosis's"....... Medications....And.... the what not. The ONLY way I knew how to DO most of anything was If it was done to ME and I didn't like it, then I should not Do it to another person. That was the ONLY perspective I had for a long time. I Encountered horrific Dreams, and Delusions, Places that were scary........... By My Teen age year I continued to View Dying as an escape. All the While My mother Tried So hard to Keep me Focused in a "place" of "accepted" reality......
So at Thirteen I slit My wrists in a "dream" like state... I went Into Shock... I do not remember Much but a lot of horror was suffered by my Mother and Step Father and Siblings. by the Age of 16 I was Institutionalized.... Dealing with Puberty, a possible biologically Defect in my genes and the what not, I was Extremely Confused.
They Called it... Psychosis.... I was suffering "delusions"...
What I was suffering From Was a memory planted in my mind as a young Girl, how I coped with it then, how I was coping with it at 16 and with puberty and the Possibility of a Genetic disorder like my Fathers.... It has taken a Long time to "play" with every one on their terms and Not my "Delusions".... I read much to stay in "focus" with what is accepted in "society" because this will keep me out of Hospitals and unwanted Antipsychotic Drugs. And I "Fake it" ... like a lot of people "fake it"... but I have never doubted my "Delusions" Even when they Scared me. Like the little Boy in the movie the "6th sense" I let them Beat at me Because I was told they "weren't there".... They are there all right, What society has asked me to do, Is to "not Respond to them"... So...
What "IS" Psychosis? No one Knows for sure. You Can Tell me that since YOU Do not "see it" it is not there.. But it Doesn't make it any less there to me...... we Can All assume on Different Levels. but What it boils Down to, in my mind, is there are a set of "rules" Society as Decided to Fallow, allow and accept. If you can not "Fallow" these Rules, then there are "places" for you to be until you Can. Whether that be Medication, institutionalization or Death.
Could I be "bipolar" because of Genetics? Sure. Could it be Bad Behavior because I was a Frightened little Girl? Sure.... But None of that Answers "what is Psychosis", and None of that will Tell me, that it isn't there.
 
Society has asked me not to respond to what I know is true, and it is sinking deeper into psychopathy. I am someone who could have made a difference. They murdered me pre-emptively, my mother and the rest. What in the Hell am I supposed to do now and why should I care?
 
I hear that MetaKron... and it's Hard... It's like Living in True "DUALISM"....
I Wish I had the answers... For you, For my self... for any body who is told To "Ignore" what they are experiencing...
I know that antipsychotic drugs often hurt the very Fabric of thinking making it more confusing that the person feel practically Comatose. It's a hard line... I Wonder, what if... Perhaps People like my self, and other people who "experience" this "Psychosis" if maybe we aren't just scaring the Crap out of the people who are not "experiencing" it? What if It break's THEIR own Reality and they fight for it BY institutionalization and medication because they are afraid that... we may be Right? If there were a Way to Talk about the "experiences" of Psychosis and what the person felt... you know, Find Some "common" Ground with on another, perhaps we would be the Majority?..... But for most of us who experience this all too real "Reality" we are ashamed, Frightened, and don't usually know where to go with these experiences. Techknowledgy advances every Day though. I can Understand the "need" for "Social structure"... But I do Not agree with being Shunned or Forced into a state that is out side of our entire Realm. Eventually there will be more understood about this. This Thread Is a Good Start :)
 
PHPlatonica, Thanyou for sharing those truly trqmatic experiences you have had. For me this is now REAL!....ths is what is all about. sharing this stuff isreally important. not some game of 'yes it is is not' shit.........btw if you can try and research the bok The Gene Ilusion

all this stuff about 'genes' si what i consder facist. notice racists use this crap science, as does the mental health movement, etc

you see, when a culture pushes a propaganda that we are mere biochemicals and that inner feelings are not of any value, then we inevitably get the utter abuse of people claimed to be 'delusional/mentally ill/disordered' and likemyou see, tis stretgy is to MAINTAINE the social 'order' which is...corrupt

a system whose leaders wage war on its on people, especially the 'underclass, and mainly non-white people, ethnic people, the marginalized. who wage illegal wars that do the most horrif things and pin and horry to children women and men, and do genocide and ecocide. THIS system ditates to us what is 'normal'..???!

dont YHINK fukin SO!

We are BARRED from expressing emotions, in all its capcity which includes spirituality. by 'spirituaity' i dont mean te mystical-patriarchal-monotheistic understanding of 'spirituality' which is DIVISIVE, no. i mean as in being EARTHED. understanding our deep interelationship with Nature and community. all tis is prohibited. in its place is oppression and treatin us like their lab rats, and Pavolian dogs. good little concumer-producers, who buy al the drap they dish us from media

notice when you mention tis shit, the promoters of te mental health model accuse te mentioner wof having mental illness! ie., they accept the conditioning and will argue it is natrual. 'get used to it!'.

well why should anyone get used to a situation that is insufferble. it is this demand that drives many over the edge. when you add traumatic experiences from childhood wit people you trust.....hah!
 
Wow.

Well, I've never been to this forum before - but I had to register and post after reading through this thread. It's very hard for me to find people who think about the world along the same lines I do, and I found it incredibly heartening to read some of the things you all have had to say.

In particular I felt closest to MetaKron's postings. Some of the things you said really resonate with me a lot, and I think I may have had somewhat similar experiences to you, in a way. I grew up in an extremely dysfunctional, emotionally (and occasionally physically) abusive family with mentally ill parents. I was made to believe that, when I rebelled against being mistreated and I couldn't stand it any longer, I was going crazy. Psychiatrists diagnosed me with everything from depression to ADHD to anxiety disorders, and put me on everything from anti-depressants to anti-psychotics - without once considering the effects of (or helping me with) my life at home. I became addicted to anti-depressants (which I still, unfortunately, take), gained over 100 pounds due to drug side-effects (which I only recently have lost), and I gave up on a lot of things.

I've spent the past year basically running away. I'm old enough, now, to do it - so I ran off as far as I could, and I lived in London twice (with a brief break in the middle where I flew home, dropped out of university, re-fueled money, and flew back again). Lots of issues there, too, but...anyway, the point is - the people and society and cultural mechanisms that surround us DO decide what is and is not real. People have amazing abilities to tune out even their day-to-day experiences; some of the people I've had to live and work with, I've wondered when the last time was they really looked up and saw the sky. People have an amazing fear of what they cannot understand, and an amazing ability to turn off empathy towards ideas, beliefs, or people who scare them, who threaten their own views about their lives. (There is definately such a thing as being "too sane" for one's surroundings.) But then - those "scary" people internalize the others' beliefs about them. They perceive the fear and the negative reaction (their sense of reality, as well, being influenced by the people around them), and they believe THAT is what is "real." They are something bad. They are "off," "crazy." When in fact, if everyone retained a sense of empathy, they would realize that all the fear and emotional charge that they attribute to themselves and others is, in fact, the true delusion.

I also was interested to see that "depersonalization" and "derealization" were listed under someone's post as types of thought psychoses. I have suffered from both of these disorders since I was 11, and have never heard them described in such a way. Interesting! (Am I crazy, then? ;) ) I'm not sure if anyone is familiar with either of them at all, but after pondering what might be wrong with me for about 9 years now, I think I may well have figured out what they are caused by - at least for me and the two other people I have known who have had them:

Everyone acts in their day-to-day lives. You smile at the guy at the check-out counter when you really feel like smacking somebody in the nose. You politely laugh when someone says something that conflicts with your beliefs. And there are all sorts of different methods of acting. Some people mimick facial expressions, etc. - that is to say, they fake exterior emotions and sentiments that they do not actively feel. Other people make themselves believe the act they are putting on for the time that they are performing it; this is a type of "method" acting, I believe, where actors "become" the character to play a more convincing role.

The problem is when you get lost in the part. You can forget what is you, and what is you pretending - and not in a schitzophrenic sense, where you believe you are someone else. In an abusive household, for instance, you might make yourself believe you want whatever the abuser WANTS you to want. You had to make yourself believe it to act (in your method of acting), to pretend to him that you did, and between everything, while crawling through all the hardships - somehow you got stuck. You learned to pretend with everything, to everyone - to hide your real safe away somewhere it can't be found. You can't remember what a real smile is anymore. When you're trying to be you, it's pretend; even when you're by yourself, it's pretend. Something switches off, and you can't really feel anymore, or see the world, or think. You look in on yourself and your world and your thoughts from somewhere very far away, from behind a fuzzy glass wall.

Is such a person crazy? Or do they merely desperately need safety and love?
 
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