News from Gaza Part 2
- Thread starter S.A.M.
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This is truly ironic. Its not unlike the situation in Poland during WW2. As I recall from the OT, the chosen race are entitled to the premise of an eye for an eye.
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
“But there are some things within our social order to which I am proud to be maladjusted and to which I call upon you to be maladjusted. I never intend to adjust myself to segregation and discrimination. I never intend to adjust myself to mob rule. I never intend to adjust myself to the tragic effects of the methods of physical violence and to tragic militarism. I call upon you to be maladjusted to such things.”
Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr, May 1958
Sounds like apt description of the problems in Islam:
segregation, discrimination, and mob rule, physical violence and tragic militarism.
Defines Hamas precisely, and Jihad Islam in detail.
That may be what it is "about" but does not tell why. Jewish "hawks" are much like Daniel Boone types in the early USA. They, like early Americans, need for land to expand into and have the power to take it.
In this day and age, expansion / land conquest / must be done with some subterfuge.* Like the taking of the Bedouin's lands for Jewish settlers was done (very successful – no international reaction). Destroying the Bedouin way of life / culture / economy / was for their own good – their children needed schooling, etc.- Australia did the same for their primitive natives a generation or two ago even more harshly – pulling children from their mother's arms to be raised by white mothers.
A stronger nation like Israel can make conditions so bad that many Palestinians will seek homes in other Arab countries** and it can confine the more stubborn ones in camps with inadequate food, water, medical services and no jobs. It is not hard for a more advanced nation to take the land of a more primitive people. That is just the way it always is, but there must be some excuse to avoid boycotts etc. in this PC age.
In an old post, I made prior to the Gaza pullout, I noted that Israel is very sophisticated and understood that if Israel were not keeping order in Gaza, the Palestinians would soon be fighting amongst themselves for power /control. I.e. well before it happened, I predicted that the pullout from Gaza, would serve Israel's long term objectives well. I.e. it would show the world that the Palestinians were not ready for self government (a state of their own) and would make conditions still more miserable for the Palestinians. Fortunately, for Israel, the Arab world is divided - some support the Palestinians and others hope Israel does destroy them, at least those who support Hamas.
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*For example: "The wall," built entirely on Palestinian land, is a "security barrier." Fact that it expands de-facto control over Jerusalem and the Mountain Aquifer water is only an accidental consequence, which could have been avoided if the wall had been built on Israeli land. It also makes life more difficult for the Palestinians by separating them from the fields that they have farmed for many generations. This encourages some to leave the west bank for other Arab countries. This, plus the illegal expansion of new cities for settlers has succeeded in making approximately 1/3 of the West bank population Jewish now.
**Many already have in the 50 years their conditions have grown worse.
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spidergoat
Valued Senior Member
The Israelis have no need for land. Their expansions have been strategic, and the result of aggression on the part of others.
Not sure if this requires academic access:
edit: just in case you cannot access it:
Li, Darryl. "The Gaza Strip as Laboratory: Notes in the Wake of Disengagement." Journal of Palestine Studies 35(2), Winter 2006, pp. 38-55.
And:
Disengagement and the Frontiers of Zionism; Darryl Li;February 16, 2008
Very interesting reading.
(Darryl Li is a doctoral student in anthropology and Middle East studies at Harvard University and a student at Yale Law School. He spent January in the Gaza Strip.)
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According to Israel oficials they do. See:
http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2137918&postcount=578
Following is condensed from the English newspaper, the Guardian of 27Feb03. Read full article at :
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/feb/27/israel :
“The fledgling Jewish state had great plans for the Negev 50 years ago, but they did not include the bedouin. Israel's first prime minister, David Ben Gurion, said the Arabs should be herded into the north of the Negev "in order not to disturb development plans" to give the land to Jewish settlers. The former prime minister Yitzhak Shamir talked of "civilising" the bedouin. In 1963, Moshe Dayan, one of Israel's most renowned war heroes, imagined that "this phenomenon of the bedouin will disappear".
… Five years ago, Ariel Sharon, then the interior minister, declared that the bedouin had disappeared and the Negev was empty "but for a few goats and sheep" which he promised "to deal with". The campaign to clear the desert of all bedouin is continued today by the Jewish Agency for Israel which spearheads the government's efforts to bring another million Jews to Israel by 2010.
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spidergoat
Valued Senior Member
Certainly Gaza is not independent, but neither are they part of Israel. The analogy to South Africa is flawed, they cannot accept Israel's existence at all.
spidergoat
Valued Senior Member
That is land within Israel's borders already.
apartheid definition = apartness
The Israeli system is like the South African system in four key ways:
- A state has been created specifically for an immigrant ethnic group.
- The indigenous population (or a large portion of that population) is denied by one means or another citizenship in the state created for the immigrant ethnic group.
- The state of the immigrant ethnic group controls the indigenous population and does not permit true self-determination for that indigenous population.
- The laws, policies, and official and unofficial practices of the immigrant ethnic state favor the immigrant ethnic group and disadvantage the indigenous ethnic group.
Bells
Staff member
Or we can hear from the people who were in the compound in Gaza and who run UNRWA..
Seems pretty deliberate to me. First target the area where 700 refugees were sheltering in the compound and then when told to back off by the UN, they bomb the area where food, medical supplies and fuel is stored with white phosphorus shells..
And Israel's response? Expected..
There's a shock. It was "absolutely true" that they were attacked from the UN schools as well when they bombed it. Then a week later when threatened with war crimes investigations and criminal investigations, they state it was a mistake and that the school was hit by one of their stray shells.. I expect in a week, we'll be hearing the same excuse again from Israel. And there will be idiots who will lap it up..
And just a reminder about their use of WP in Gaza..
Interesting..
spidergoat
Valued Senior Member
Actually, the story didn't change in a significant way. They now claim they were fired from near the school, and a stray shell hit the school.
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
Now how about Hamas staging attacks from the cover of those compounds.
Or do you only hold Israeli responsible, and you have done so far.
Defend Hamas, never question Hamas's actions, mitigate Hamas's responsibility, yes Bell's truly a one sided defense of Hamas.
And your the one who claims to see both sides:
:roflmao:
Bells
Staff member
That's because, thus far, there has been no evidence they were in or near the UN compound.
And even if they were, it is somehow alright to bomb a compound you know contains hundreds of refugees, as well as food, medical and fuel aid? It makes it alright for Israel to fire mortar shells at where the civilians are in the compound and when warned to back off, to fire white phosphorus shells where the food, medical supplies and fuel is stored?
Un-frigging-believable..
There is nothing to mitigate Hamas using that compound as shelter to fire rockets into Israel, if they were in fact doing that. There is also nothing to mitigate what appears to be a very deliberate attack, by Israel, to destroy that compound. Don't you get it yet? Both sides are wrong in this. Israel, with more fire power, is making a bigger arse out of itself and doing so deliberately. Take your head out of Israel's arse and see the sunshine for once.
spidergoat
Valued Senior Member
War is a blunt instrument, it is not always possible to use it with absolute precision, but Hamas leaves them little choice. This is just what Hamas wanted. Of course there is no evidence, they were properly blown to bits.
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
No Bells what is unbeleavable is your arrogance about posting about things that you have no experence or experese in.
You have never been in Combat, you have never been in the military.
And you are going on second hand reports from questionable sources.
Do some research on Maj. Paeta Hess-von Kruedener, and his reports, and about the way the U.N. biased the blame in it report on Israel, in these incidents.
Here is a good start.
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=37278180-a261-421d-84a9-7f94d5fc6d50
A Canadian Forces infantry officer with the Edmonton-based Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry and the only Canadian serving as a UN military observer in Lebanon, Maj. Hess-von Kruedener was no stranger to fighting nearby.
The UN post, he wrote in the e-mail, afforded a view of the "Hezbollah static positions in and around our patrol Base."
Maj. Paeta Hess-von Kruedener
The e-mail appears to contradict the UN's claim there had been no Hezbollah activity in the vicinity of the strike.
The question of Hezbollah's infiltration of the area is significant because UN Secretary General Kofi Annan, speaking Tuesday just hours after the bombing, accused the Israelis of the "apparently deliberate targeting" of the base near Khiam in southern Lebanon.
A senior UN official, asked about the information contained in Maj. Hess-von Kruedener's e-mail concerning Hezbollah presence in the vicinity of the Khiam base, denied the world body had been caught in a contradiction.
Even if Hezbollah was not firing rockets at the time of the bombing, Maj. Hess-von Kruedener's e-mail indicates they were using a terrorist tactic of purposely drawing out enemy forces near a neutral site, said retired Capt. Peter Forsberg, who did two UN tours between 1993 and 1995 during the Bosnian war.
You have never been in Combat, you have never been in the military.
And you are going on second hand reports from questionable sources.
Do some research on Maj. Paeta Hess-von Kruedener, and his reports, and about the way the U.N. biased the blame in it report on Israel, in these incidents.
Here is a good start.
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=37278180-a261-421d-84a9-7f94d5fc6d50
A Canadian Forces infantry officer with the Edmonton-based Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry and the only Canadian serving as a UN military observer in Lebanon, Maj. Hess-von Kruedener was no stranger to fighting nearby.
The UN post, he wrote in the e-mail, afforded a view of the "Hezbollah static positions in and around our patrol Base."
Maj. Paeta Hess-von Kruedener
The e-mail appears to contradict the UN's claim there had been no Hezbollah activity in the vicinity of the strike.
The question of Hezbollah's infiltration of the area is significant because UN Secretary General Kofi Annan, speaking Tuesday just hours after the bombing, accused the Israelis of the "apparently deliberate targeting" of the base near Khiam in southern Lebanon.
A senior UN official, asked about the information contained in Maj. Hess-von Kruedener's e-mail concerning Hezbollah presence in the vicinity of the Khiam base, denied the world body had been caught in a contradiction.
Even if Hezbollah was not firing rockets at the time of the bombing, Maj. Hess-von Kruedener's e-mail indicates they were using a terrorist tactic of purposely drawing out enemy forces near a neutral site, said retired Capt. Peter Forsberg, who did two UN tours between 1993 and 1995 during the Bosnian war.
Go for it.
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
No. if OBL in my granddaughters school, I will take care of it my self, a 168gr. 7.62 Hollow Point enema between His eyes.
Jesus you are being ridiculous, can you get any more preposterous in your attempts to demonize Israeli actions?
If Hamas used a School, a Hospital, a Mosque, a U.N. Compound, as cover to launch attacks, it is Hamas who is responsible for militarizing the area, it is Hamas who is the culpable body in this, not Israeli Soldiers, under the Geneva Convention and the IHL they have a right to defend themselves and their own troops, from deadly attack no matter where that attack originates from.
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