Muslims say; religious freedom for me, but not for thee.

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Greatest I am

Greatest I am

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Muslims say; religious freedom for me, but not for thee.

The Golden Rule and other reciprocity sayings indicate that what we grant ourselves or some others should also be granted to everyone. This would include the right to critique religions and governments.

Islam and it’s Muslim adherents are quite vocal in denigrating other religions and political system, yet say that others who denigrate Islam and Sharia should be penalized in various ways, --- even unto death.

Where I come from, reciprocity is fair play and all players in a game play by the same rules. Islam and Muslims wants to win the God wars by having different restrictive rules for their interlocutors.

Should we respect and tolerate a religion that denies us the rights and play by the same rules that they enjoy?
If yes, please tell me why we should respect such a religion.

Regards
DL
 
Greatest I am said:
Muslims say; religious freedom for me, but not for thee.
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No, you are thinking of the United States Constitution. No religion advocates religious freedom as a value, they just treat outgroups with varying levels of tolerance for being wrong.
 
Greatest I am said:
Muslims say; religious freedom for me, but not for thee.

The Golden Rule and other reciprocity sayings indicate that what we grant ourselves or some others should also be granted to everyone. This would include the right to critique religions and governments.

Islam and it’s Muslim adherents are quite vocal in denigrating other religions and political system, yet say that others who denigrate Islam and Sharia should be penalized in various ways, --- even unto death.

Where I come from, reciprocity is fair play and all players in a game play by the same rules. Islam and Muslims wants to win the God wars by having different restrictive rules for their interlocutors.

Should we respect and tolerate a religion that denies us the rights and play by the same rules that they enjoy?
If yes, please tell me why we should respect such a religion.

Regards
DL
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Kindly provide some sort of source or citation for these claims... otherwise I can only imagine this is yet another of your drive by flamebait threads designed to stir the proverbial shitpot...

As to why we should respect "such a religion"... well, I guess if you actually give a rats ass about the US Constitution... then you have to.

wikipedia said:
The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, ensuring that there is no prohibition on the free exercise of religion, abridging the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble, or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances. It was adopted on December 15, 1791, as one of the ten amendments that constitute the Bill of Rights.
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First Amendment said:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.[1]
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Kittamaru said:
Kindly provide some sort of source or citation for these claims... otherwise I can only imagine this is yet another of your drive by flamebait threads designed to stir the proverbial shitpot...

As to why we should respect "such a religion"... well, I guess if you actually give a rats ass about the US Constitution... then you have to.
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Actually there are 8 muslim countries which punish apostasy from Islam by death penalty which is clearly in conflict with general human rights as defined by UN and by laws of civilized countries in world. And there are many more muslim countries having penalties for preaching other religion than Islam.

This is clear evidence that Islam is intolerant and evil ideology which misuses the status of religion to avoid repercussions for gravely breaking human rights of hundreds of millions people and also misusing this status for freely spreading their evil ideology in non muslim countries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam
 
Ultron said:
Actually there are 8 muslim countries which punish apostasy from Islam by death penalty which is clearly in conflict with general human rights as defined by UN and by laws of civilized countries in world. And there are many more muslim countries having penalties for preaching other religion than Islam.

This is clear evidence that Islam is intolerant and evil ideology which misuses the status of religion to avoid repercussions for gravely breaking human rights of hundreds of millions people and also misusing this status for freely spreading their evil ideology in non muslim countries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam
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And so does Christianity...

Deuteronomy 17 said:
If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
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Deuteronomy 13 said:
If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again.
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Then there is Numbers 31, where God commanded the Israelites to attack Midian and kill all the men, married women, and male children, allowing only the virgin females to live as "spoils of war" to be distributed among the soldiers, due to two Midianite women who had tempted two Israelite men to worship other Gods...

So... okay, lets say I agree with your logic - we have to outlaw Islam because it condones and even commands killing. We must also outlaw Christianity because it too demands we kill those of other religions.
 
I reckon ''Greatest I am'' must have been dropped in the font at his/her christening. That may explain this religious obsession. I think he/she may have a soft spot for The Tanakh though.
 
Kittamaru said:
And so does Christianity...





Then there is Numbers 31, where God commanded the Israelites to attack Midian and kill all the men, married women, and male children, allowing only the virgin females to live as "spoils of war" to be distributed among the soldiers, due to two Midianite women who had tempted two Israelite men to worship other Gods...

So... okay, lets say I agree with your logic - we have to outlaw Islam because it condones and even commands killing. We must also outlaw Christianity because it too demands we kill those of other religions.
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Im sure you would have big problem naming a christian country which has currently death penalty for apostasy from Christianity.
 
Ultron said:
Im sure you would have big problem naming a christian country which has currently death penalty for apostasy from Christianity.
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Technically speaking, the US has blasphemy laws in some states. As examples:

https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartIV/TitleI/Chapter272/Section36
Section 36: Blasphemy


Section 36. Whoever wilfully blasphemes the holy name of God by denying, cursing or contumeliously reproaching God, his creation, government or final judging of the world, or by cursing or contumeliously reproaching Jesus Christ or the Holy Ghost, or by cursing or contumeliously reproaching or exposing to contempt and ridicule, the holy word of God contained in the holy scriptures shall be punished by imprisonment in jail for not more than one year or by a fine of not more than three hundred dollars, and may also be bound to good behavior.
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and

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(lm...ject&objectName=mcl-750-102&highlight=750.102
THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 328 of 1931

750.102 Blasphemy; punishment.


Sec. 102.

Punishment—Any person who shall wilfully blaspheme the holy name of God, by cursing or contumeliously reproaching God, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.


History: 1931, Act 328, Eff. Sept. 18, 1931 ;-- CL 1948, 750.102
Former Law: See section 17 of Ch. 158 of R.S. 1846, being CL 1857, § 5872; CL 1871, § 7707; How., § 9293; CL 1897, § 11706; CL 1915, § 15480; and CL 1929, § 16832.
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Not punishable by death, certainly.

None the less, the point stands that no religion is exempt from these so-called laws. Thankfully, this is why the US has "separation of church and state" (or, at least, is supposed to). I disagree with having a country set its laws based entirely on religious texts that were written centuries ago... but *shrug*
 
Kittamaru said:
Technically speaking, the US has blasphemy laws in some states. As examples:

https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartIV/TitleI/Chapter272/Section36


and

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(lm...ject&objectName=mcl-750-102&highlight=750.102


Not punishable by death, certainly.

None the less, the point stands that no religion is exempt from these so-called laws. Thankfully, this is why the US has "separation of church and state" (or, at least, is supposed to). I disagree with having a country set its laws based entirely on religious texts that were written centuries ago... but *shrug*
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So we can agree that there is no christian country which has currently death penalty for apostasy from Christianity. I really dont understand why regressive leftists like you do support death penalty for apostasy in Muslim countries and why are you so desperately trying to find excuses for such evil attitude of muslims.
 
Ultron said:
I really dont understand why regressive leftists like you do support death penalty for apostasy in Muslim countries and why are you so desperately trying to find excuses for such evil attitude of muslims.
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The same reason you so desperately try to find excuses for the evil and murderous attitudes of Christians (like Anders Breivik.)
 
billvon said:
Nor have I. In fact. lately the person most intolerant of religion I've seen has been Greatest I Am.
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Indeed.

For evil to grow, all good men need do is ignore the intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions.

Ask you wife or gay child what they think of the mainstream religions that denigrate and discriminate against them.

Regards
DL
 
Kittamaru said:
Kindly provide some sort of source or citation for these claims... otherwise I can only imagine this is yet another of your drive by flamebait threads designed to stir the proverbial shitpot...

As to why we should respect "such a religion"... well, I guess if you actually give a rats ass about the US Constitution... then you have to.
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That constitution has helped the U.S. have the highest jail stats and abortion rates in the world.

Go ahead ant tout it all you like.

As for proof which your constitution is protecting.


Further, on " free exercise of religion "

Did your government not negate that when they went after Westborough on their picketing near where soldiers were being buried or in interfering with that Branch Dividian religion?

Regards
DL
 
Kittamaru said:
And so does Christianity...

So... okay, lets say I agree with your logic - we have to outlaw Islam because it condones and even commands killing. We must also outlaw Christianity because it too demands we kill those of other religions.
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I agree. Both religions have grown by the sword instead of good deed so we should show our disrespect for both, if not all religions.
Both Christianity and Islam are still intolerant, homophobic and misogynous and the secular world should give them the proper send off.

Regards
DL
 
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