Israeli/Hamas disregard for human life.

Discussion in 'World Events' started by StrawDog, Feb 5, 2009.

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  1. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Some reminders of Jewish resistance movements:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bielski_partisans


    And another famous one:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Resistance
     
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  3. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    Hay SAM, what about Hamas's armored personell carriers?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oesBeCFAlg

    The Capt, has just shown Hamas for what the bunch of liars they are, and the length they will go to generate propaganda.

    Does this go to show:

    The Arab Mind/Honesty and Religion?
     
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  5. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    I'm not trying to defend Israel's choice of targets, partly because I don't even know what exactly was hit, by what and where. But I do know that John Ging, the head of UNRWA in Gaza, has now clarified that in at least one incident, Israel did not actually fire on a UN school as was widely reported, but that Israel fired at some target in the general vicinity and civilians got hurt. I believe other options were available that Israel could have tried before resorting to all-out war, but as far as being responsible for the resulting casualties, I just can't see how Hamas escapes the blame. They clearly provoked war by sharply escalating their rocket attacks in the days before Israel responded, and their choice of tactics in the ensuing war should be investigated just as seriously as Israel's.
     
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  7. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Some more reminders of Jewish resistance movements:


    http://c3.ort.org.il/Apps/WW/page.a...em&_item=a2a4801b-d1b4-43ef-8bf4-2e4f99d631eb
     
  8. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    One can find material like this all over the place, unless one watches nothing but Al Jazeera all day. How Hamas' systematic exploitation of Palestinian civilians has gone largely unnoticed to this day is beyond my comprehension. With the UNRWA halting aid distribution in light of Hamas stealing their supplies, this is the first time I can recall the UN ever taking serious action on the subject.
     
  9. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    Can't answer SAM?

    Strawmen and red herrings....

    Now, SAM, what about Hamas's armored personell carriers?

    U.N. Ambulances, being used by Hamas Fighter as transport.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oesBeCFAlg

    The Capt, has just shown Hamas for what the bunch of liars they are, and the length they will go to generate propaganda.

    Does this go to show:

    The Arab Mind/Honesty and Religion?
     
  10. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Actually the UN stopped aid last November. Because they ran out of food and Israelis would not let any trucks in. So they closed the aid centers.

    Meanwhile, still more reminders of Jewish collaborators and their fate at the hands of other Jews:

    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/773369.html
     
  11. BenTheMan Dr. of Physics, Prof. of Love Valued Senior Member

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    Cpt.Bork---It's fucked up to use UN ambulances as attack vehicles, but what would you do? You are the leader of an poor and starving resistance. You are fighting for your freedom. What are the boundaries?

    SAM---does one human rights violation excuse another? If so, then why are you pissed off at the US for torturing Iraqi POWs (or..."enemy combatants") if they did the same thing to American GI's? Does the fact that both sides are doing it make it right? And, by the way, since when are Fatah supporters in league with Israel?

    StrawDog---Does it really matter what is going on in Palestine, so long as civilians are dying? Shouldn't the first order of business be to end whatever it is that is killing civilians?

    This is why I rarely post in here, because no one can discuss these issues with a straight face.

    The point is, no one is without blood on their hands, not Hamas, not the UN, not the Israeli army...no one. The world expects Palestinian civilians to be treated as civilians by the Israelis when Hamas is waging a guerilla war and using those civilians as shields, while disregarding Israel's basic right to be. This is not to mention the fact that Hamas cares little for the lives of Israeli civilians. Israel expects the world to understand it's actions when they refuse to take basic steps to minimize civilian casualties, even though Hamas blatantly refuses to follow the same accords. And the UN has utterly failed at pretty much everything it has ever done, from preventing genocides in Sudan, Rwanda, and Chechnya, to preventing wars in Korea, Vietnam, and Iraq (even though this is explicitly mentioned in the UN charter), to preventing nuclear proliferation, to (...). Ah, right, except of course for delivering aid to people in need, when the conditions aren't too dangerous.

    Assigning blame in this conflict is like trying to count sand, or stars or something. SAM is 100% correct when she says that the Israelis have literally starved the Palestinians for the past few months. Does this justify Hamas randomly shooting rockets at civilians in Israel? Does this, in turn, justify an invasion of the West Bank in which it seems that Israeli soldiers took little regard for collateral damages? Does this excuse Hamas for it's rounding up and killing and torturing its political adversaries?

    Surely not, in all cases.

    Most people who post in this forum are content to sit back and assign blame instead of understand the reasons behind actions---whether it's SAM blaming America for it's imperialism, or Buffalo Roam making blatant statements about Muslims. This is why, in my humble opinion, this forum shouldn't exist---it's primary purpose is solely for people to stand on soap boxes, making ignorant points, whilst ignoring the person to your left doing exactly the same thing. There is nothing "intelligent" or "scientific" about the discourse here.

    I know, it makes you feel better---you can understand things in terms of "right" and "wrong". Maybe, you think, by screaming loud enough, or derailing enough conversations, people who were diametrically opposed to your opinion may just start to understand your privileged insight, all the while ignoring the fact that everyone else here is doing the same thing... The fact is, the situation is fucked up now, it has been, and if people are only content to sit back and assign blame, then it always will be.
     
  12. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    The US is not a resistance movement defending itself against an occupation. Everyone knows Fatah leadership is highly corrupt. Where have you been? what would you call a political group that beats up its own people when they protest the Israeli attack on Gaza? Fatah has no standing in the Palestinian community, everyone knows they are Israeli puppets
     
  13. BenTheMan Dr. of Physics, Prof. of Love Valued Senior Member

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  14. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Here is a link on Fatah


    "We have moved into the era of Hamas which is now much stronger than it was," said Husam Kadr, a veteran Fatah leader in the West Bank city of Nablus, recently released after five-and-a-half years in Israeli prisons... "We in Fatah have failed to remove a single Israeli checkpoint," admits Mr Kadr. "It takes me as long to reach Ramallah 50 kilometres away as it would to fly from Jordan to Ankara."


    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-has-put-hamas-in-the-ascendancy-1513430.html
     
  15. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    I do feel for the people of Gaza, and I don't know what else Israel can do, if Israel does nothing, Israelis die because Hammas will not negotiate honorably, Hamas use's, the Hudna, Kitman, Taqiyya, long established tenets of Islam and Muslims, in warfare.

    As to what other weapon Israel could have deployed, that would have generated less collateral damage, what would it have been?

    Missiles have the same blast pattern, and the added danger of unexpended fuel exploding all over the place, they couldn't get troops in there, Rockets from a Helicopter are less accurate than artillery, and a bomb strike has even a bigger blast problem, and they couldn't let the Hamas fighters continue to fire on their troops.

    As you video show it is Hamas who doesn't care about the collateral damage, in fact they want collateral damage for the propaganda value, and the News Media seems hell bent to help Hamas foist this off as Israel's fault.

    These are all part of Hamas's Jihad against Israel.

    Kitman: Kitman is close to Taqqiya (see it) but rather than outright dissimulation, it consists in telling only a part of the truth, with “mental reservation” justifying the omission of the rest. One example may suffice. When a Moslem maintains that “jihad” really means “a spiritual struggle” and fails to add that this definition is a recent one in Islam (little more than a century old), he misleads by holding back, and is practicing “kitman.” Another example would be the insistence of a Moslem apologist that, “of course”, there is freedom of conscience in Islam and then quoting that Qur’anic verse -“There shall be no compulsion in religion.” But the impression given will be false, for there has been no mention of the Moslem doctrine of abrogation, or naskh.

    Taqiyya (taqqiya): Dissimulation as sanctified hypocrisy. It is considered a part of Islamic strategy to lie and deceive unbelievers by any means. Thus exercising taqqiyah is very pious behavior. Veiling the truth: Adjustment, deception up to the open lie. -Taqqiya is attached, if it is helpful to the well-being of the religion -Islam (Khomeini). Sunnis will deceptively say that this goes only for Shiites...

    Hudna: The prophet closed a ten-year weapon break with the Quraysh. Two years later though it was broken unilaterely to strike the Quraysh and Muhammad entered in Mecca. Since that time the term “Hudna” designates a strategic cessation of hostilities, which has alone the sense of a force misalignment. A “Hudna” can be interrupted then, as soon as this force misalignment is smoothed finally and the way for a Muslim victory is foreseen.
     
  16. Vkothii Banned Banned

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    Israel didn't drop bombs on UN warehouses and schools?
    Before they ended, Israel wasn't preventing UN aid from entering Gaza? It only started doing this after hostilities had ceased?
    No, the Israelis have moved out of Gaza, to the borders of Gaza (??) They made a tactical military decision.
    Why has the UN moved in? Doesn't it have better things to do than pay Gaza a visit and say "Hi"?

    Why do you not want to understand what deprivation and collective punishment are? Why do you want to cling to a fanatical point of view and accuse others of being fanatics?

    Are you a fascist?
     
  17. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    Maybe you can explain this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oesBeCFAlg

    and just maybe understand why Israel did what it did, and oh, the U.N. admitted that the Israelis didn't bomb the school....
     
  18. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Last edited: Feb 7, 2009
  19. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    But Hamas is still Stealing U.N. Food Aid out of the Mouths of Gazan children, and in doing so has caused the U.N. to suspend operations.
     
  20. Vkothii Banned Banned

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    But you are a fascist?
     
  21. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    Are you? you seem to be, as you are a full apologist for those who deny the Holocaust, and if given their way (Hamas) would create another one in Israel, to destroy the Jews of Israel.

    Hamas's Charter.
     
  22. Vkothii Banned Banned

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    So you are someone who prefers to invent things, in a fanatical way?

    I've never denied the Nazi oppression, I've never apologised for anyone either; I don't do apologies.

    The modern Jews of Israel are doing just fine, destroying themselves.
    Destroying any possibility of peaceful coexistence, ensuring that at some point in the future a whole heap of oppression will not be forgotten, and they'll be wearing the "fruits" of their belligerence.

    Laugh, go on.
     
  23. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    And you have just proven my point,

    Typical anti Semite view, it's all the Jews Fault, seem to be a theme that runs throughout fascism, Nazism, and Hamas.

    Yes thank you for providing proof of what you stand for.
     
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