Is there a scientific theory that explains the quality of pain in terms of the physical universe?

[Truck Captain Stumpy]

Why does the pain scale only go to ten?

as Ice implied, there are several scales

there are also visual analogue and the graphic rating scales as well as behavioural scales like the FLACC Pain assessment tool for children

some require secondary input and examination of sensory dysfunction in order to evaluate the patient responses

the actual number used is usually determined by the scale used and the settings it's applied in

 

[Speakpigeon]

Yes it matters because it allows us to understand that pain is a phenomenon people know outside any scientific consideration of it.

sorry, but that is nonsensical, IMHO.
The existence of something before it's investigated by science doesn't mean it's "outside any scientific consideration of it".

???
I didn't claim here that pain was outside any scientific consideration of it as you assert here. I claimed that pain is a phenomenon people know outside any scientific consideration of it.
So, please explain to me how saying as I did that pain is a phenomenon people know outside any scientific consideration of it implies or is equivalent to claiming that pain is outside any scientific consideration of it, as you just asserted I did.

And then, there's no point looking at the rest of your post until I'm satisfied that you can read my English and understand what I say.
Looking forward to reading your prose.
EB

 

[Speakpigeon]

No more so than other such observations, routine in many fields.
So?
Again: the quality of pain is in many cases an intersubjectively verifiable fact, observed as many other disease symptoms are (dizziness, fatigue, double vision, nausea, thirst, numbness, etc), observed as many other scientific facts are (the sensory reports of multiple witnesses including trained scientists, recorded and classified).

Good, then we're home.
Thanks for this impressively constructive conversation.
EB

 

[Speakpigeon]

Why does the pain scale only go to ten?

Easy. We have ten fingers.
EB

 

[Truck Captain Stumpy]

So, please explain to me ....

...to quote you back:
there's no point looking at the rest of your post until I'm satisfied that you can read my English and understand what I say.

You're wanting to run down a rabbit hole of philosophy. (as indicated by your replies and this: http://www.sciforums.com/threads/is...-physical-universe.161431/page-4#post-3557269 )
that's fine. you do that if you want.

but it's not relevant to your request for a Scientific Theory of pain, which has been provided, expounded upon and linked/referenced

you really should request a moderator move this to a philosophy thread where you can discuss the philosophical implications of "phenomenon people know outside any scientific consideration of it", or "An inherent or distinguishing characteristic; a property".

Please note that I specifically used your own definitions, quoted verbatim, back to you in replies should you go back in the thread

 

[Speakpigeon]

...to quote you back:
there's no point looking at the rest of your post until I'm satisfied that you can read my English and understand what I say.

You're wanting to run down a rabbit hole of philosophy. (as indicated by your replies and this: http://www.sciforums.com/threads/is...-physical-universe.161431/page-4#post-3557269 )
that's fine. you do that if you want.

but it's not relevant to your request for a Scientific Theory of pain, which has been provided, expounded upon and linked/referenced

you really should request a moderator move this to a philosophy thread where you can discuss the philosophical implications of "phenomenon people know outside any scientific consideration of it", or "An inherent or distinguishing characteristic; a property".

Please note that I specifically used your own definitions, quoted verbatim, back to you in replies should you go back in the thread

To remind you of what you pretend to be responding to:

Yes it matters because it allows us to understand that pain is a phenomenon people know outside any scientific consideration of it.

sorry, but that is nonsensical, IMHO.
The existence of something before it's investigated by science doesn't mean it's "outside any scientific consideration of it".

???
I didn't claim here that pain was outside any scientific consideration of it as you assert here. I claimed that pain is a phenomenon people know outside any scientific consideration of it.
So, please explain to me how saying as I did that pain is a phenomenon people know outside any scientific consideration of it implies or is equivalent to claiming that pain is outside any scientific consideration of it, as you just asserted I did.

And then, there's no point looking at the rest of your post until I'm satisfied that you can read my English and understand what I say.
Looking forward to reading your prose.
EB

 

[Truck Captain Stumpy]

To remind you of what you pretend to be responding to

nope. I actually responded to you. no pretending involved.

to remind you: there's no point looking at the rest of your post until I'm satisfied that you can read English and understand what is being said.

OP asked and answered
http://www.sciforums.com/threads/is...-physical-universe.161431/page-3#post-3557115

http://www.sciforums.com/threads/is...-physical-universe.161431/page-4#post-3557184

http://www.sciforums.com/threads/is...-physical-universe.161431/page-4#post-3557208

http://www.sciforums.com/threads/is...-physical-universe.161431/page-4#post-3557213

http://www.sciforums.com/threads/is...of-the-physical-universe.161431/#post-3555723

http://www.sciforums.com/threads/is...-physical-universe.161431/page-4#post-3557222

http://www.sciforums.com/threads/is...-physical-universe.161431/page-4#post-3557237

what you want to discuss is the philosophical meaning of pain, which is subjective. (demonstrated here)

perhaps you should request your question thread be moved to a more suitable location.

 

[Write4U]

I didn't claim here that pain was outside any scientific consideration of it as you assert here. I claimed that pain is a phenomenon people know outside any scientific consideration of it?

Hm, what do you think about vision and how reality is holographically generated by the brain from observation of light patterns. Is that also a phenomenon people know outside any scientific consideration of it.

I'm sure you'll agree that all sensory experiences are experienced by people and fauna, perhaps even flora, outside any scientific consideration of it.

Paramecia, single-celled organisms, have sensory abilities outside of any scientific consideration.
The Venus fly-trap has sensory abilities outside of any scientific consideration of it.

That profound observation is easily reduced to a mere banality....

You may want to study up on microtubules which is a "common denominator" in all sentient organisms. They are the logical processors of information from exterospection and introspection.

To recall, Theodore Millon’s model talked about four fundamental evolutionary problems faced by all humans: 1) existence 2) adaptation 3) replication and 4) abstraction. There were also two polar ways of approaching each fundamental problem; that of pleasure-pain; activity-passivity; self-other and I added to it the fourth polarity of broad-narrow.

There is an influential model of emotions – the PAD model which views emotions, not as discrete basic emotions, but as dimensional in nature and thus different emotions differ from each other not as entities in themselves, but as graded multi-dimensional affects.

To elaborate, while the lay man may think of emotions as a few basic discrete emotions like sadness, happiness, anger, love, wonder, disgust, fear , interest etc. , as per this theory the emotions are complex graded amalgamations of a few basic fundamental dimensions.

https://the-mouse-trap.com/2014/02/01/emotions-and-personality-take-6/

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Screaming starts at 10, it doesn't end there.

 

[billvon]

That's no explanation of the quality of pain, which is the painful quality of pain, as subjectively experienced by the person in pain.

All organisms experience pain as something to be avoided - and that's all that evolution requires.

Next question?

 

[Speakpigeon]

nope. I actually responded to you. no pretending involved.
to remind you: there's no point looking at the rest of your post until I'm satisfied that you can read English and understand what is being said.
OP asked and answered
http://www.sciforums.com/threads/is...-physical-universe.161431/page-3#post-3557115
http://www.sciforums.com/threads/is...-physical-universe.161431/page-4#post-3557184
http://www.sciforums.com/threads/is...-physical-universe.161431/page-4#post-3557208
http://www.sciforums.com/threads/is...-physical-universe.161431/page-4#post-3557213
http://www.sciforums.com/threads/is...of-the-physical-universe.161431/#post-3555723
http://www.sciforums.com/threads/is...-physical-universe.161431/page-4#post-3557222
http://www.sciforums.com/threads/is...-physical-universe.161431/page-4#post-3557237

If you can't quote what I say and discuss what I say, then there's just no discussion possible.

what you want to discuss is the philosophical meaning of pain, which is subjective. (demonstrated here)

Idiotic claim without any evidence. I don't want to discuss anything, I want a straightforward answer to a straightforward question about science.

perhaps you should request your question thread be moved to a more suitable location.

You are irrational. This is "General Science and Technology" and my question is about science. There isn't any better place for it.
Anyway, thanks for expressing your opinions on the subject. I guess I won't get any cogent answer from you so there's no point insisting.
EB

 

[Speakpigeon]

All organisms experience pain as something to be avoided - and that's all that evolution requires.
Next question?

That's no answer to my question.
Thanks for not even trying.
EB

 

[Speakpigeon]

Screaming starts at 10, it doesn't end there.

And sometimes, people don't even scream. Even beyond 10.
EB

 

[Speakpigeon]

Do you think there is a scientific theory that explains the quality of pain in terms of the physical universe?
Please, also try to explain why there isn't one if there isn't one.
EB

 

[Beer w/Straw]

Do you think there is a scientific theory that explains the quality of pain in terms of the physical universe?
Please, also try to explain why there isn't one if there isn't one.
EB

I'd be more interested in quality of sex.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

And sometimes, people don't even scream. Even beyond 10.
EB

Yep. But don't hold their hand, you'll get some broken metacarpals out of that. (It does make you able to flip an italicized "bird", however.)

 

[Speakpigeon]

I'd be more interested in quality of sex.

Well, sex isn't what it used to be.
EB

 

[Speakpigeon]

Yep. But don't hold their hand, you'll get some broken metacarpals out of that. (It does make you able to flip an italicized "bird", however.)

If you hold their hand they can't count to ten so they don't scream.
I really have no idea what an "italicized bird" might be but I'm pretty sure it's a bold derail.
EB

 

[Write4U]

All organisms experience pain as something to be avoided - and that's all that evolution requires.

Next question?

If an specific asset is beneficial to an organism, Nature's evolution and selection will find it and imbue the organism with that beneficial asset.

I'd be more interested in quality of sex.

As I understand it, the pleasure center of the brain is next to the pain center. They are related experiences.
Hence the expression; "La petite mort"

 

[billvon]

That's no answer to my question.
Thanks for not even trying.

And how does that not answer your question?

You asked about the subjective quality of pain. Evolution provides pain as a way to warn an organism away from damage. It is subjectively unpleasant as a result.

How YOU interpret that unpleasant sensation, of course, is up to you.