Is midnight today or tomorrow?

dsdsds said: ↑
It's probably neither (and both). But what is the standard, if any, if one is writing a contract? If I want something to expire on midnight between March 11 and March 12, how is it defined?

0h00 2009-03-12 ?
24h00 2009-03-11 ?

This contract will expire midnight of the 11th March 2018

Midnight is spelt out

:)
 
You could just say "This contract will expire at the end of the day on _________." However you determine the end of the day it will end. Same with the start of the next day.

And, of course, certain litigious societies will still find reasons to argument about it.
 
DaveC426913 said:
23:59 2009-03-11
00:01 2009-03-12

Not really that hard.

No contract defined to less than a minute would be enforceable - Brewster's Millions notwithstanding.
Click to expand...

Michael 345 said:
dsdsds said: ↑
It's probably neither (and both). But what is the standard, if any, if one is writing a contract? If I want something to expire on midnight between March 11 and March 12, how is it defined?

0h00 2009-03-12 ?
24h00 2009-03-11 ?

This contract will expire midnight of the 11th March 2018

Midnight is spelt out

:)
Click to expand...

???? I think the two dates were not given as HIS period of the contract

They were given as his 2 samples of expired dates which could be used

I'm fairly certain midnight spelt out is used

My data allowance per month staess "Your new allowance begins midnight on the last day of each month"

:)
 
Michael 345 said:
???? I think the two dates were not given as HIS period of the contract

They were given as his 2 samples of expired dates which could be used
Click to expand...
Not sure what you're saying.
It looked like he was just listing two ambiguous dates, and then listing a solution.

23:59 on the day in question is pretty unambiguous. That's why it's used a lot.
 
From RubiksMaster Post 19
That's a contradiction with the definition. So either you accept that midnight is tomorrow, or you assume there is a small slice of time every 24 hours that is completely unaccounted for by the calendar, which doesn't make any sense.
Click to expand...
Midnight is not a small slice of time, it is the dividing line between night & day.

Consider using masking tale to very carefully color three equal areas of a circle red, blue, & yellow with no actual line dividing the three regions.

In some sense, the mind considers there to be a border between the regions. However the conceptual border is neither color: It is a mental concept. How would you answer the question which color is each conceptual border?​

You might say the conceptual border between red & blue is red, in which case you should for consistency sake claim that the border between blue & yellow is blue.

Alternatively, you could claim that the question is improper due to potential ambiguity (there does not seem to be an English word for this type of situation).​

For the benefit of a color blind person, one might draw a black line to distinguish the three regions & put the words red, blue, & yellow in the pertinent regions: Then ask a person person with normal vision to assign a color to each border line. The black line border is the source of the problem.

I think the above is analogous to the question about midnight.

In some sense it is neither last night nor today, although either choice dictates the assignment of noon to either morning or afternoon.
 
Goldtop said:
How about even more detail?

23:59:59 2009-03-11
00:00:00 2009-03-12
Click to expand...

Of course it doesn't quite work that way. This would be more accurate but still approximate;

23:59:59:000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001
23:59:59:000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000002
23:59:59:000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000003

:eek:
 
Write4U said:
Of course it doesn't quite work that way. This would be more accurate but still approximate;

23:59:59:000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001
23:59:59:000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000002
23:59:59:000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000003

:eek:
Click to expand...

And then, how does that work, does it go...

23:59:59:0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000058
23:59:59:0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000059
23:59:59:0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000100

?????
 
Goldtop said:
And then, how does that work, does it go...

23:59:59:0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000058
23:59:59:0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000059
23:59:59:0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000100

?????
Click to expand...
It is weird, a decimal number measured in 1/60, strange.....:?

But yes, according to some posters, that last second is infinitely divisible. Else Time would be a quantum function instead of a continuum.
Just look at the thread;
Can "Infinity" ever be more than a mathematical abstraction

:)
 
If you work with military time, Midnight can be either 2400 Thursday or 000 Friday.

Using midnight is slightly awkward for for time calculations.
 
I work for a company that writes time and attendance software. When I first started they allowed both 00:00 and 24:00 as valid times. I told them they needed to pick one or the other. We let the operating system decide. It allows valid times of 00:00:00 to 23:59:59.

Problem solved. At least for our purposes.
 
dsdsds said:
It's probably neither (and both). But what is the standard, if any, if one is writing a contract? If I want something to expire on midnight between March 11 and March 12, how is it defined?

0h00 2009-03-12 ?
24h00 2009-03-11 ?
Click to expand...
Whatever it is, it can only be a convention.
Midnight marks the beginning and ending of each day in civil time throughout the world. As the dividing point between one day and another, midnight defies easy classification as either part of the preceding day or of the following day. Though there is no global unanimity on the issue, most often midnight is considered the start of a new day and is associated with the hour 00:00. Even in locales with this technical resolution, however, vernacular references to midnight as the end of any given day may be common.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midnight
Click to expand...
At midnight, digital clocks will display "00:00", which may be more readily understood as the beginning of the day. On old clocks, the two hands will be on "12", which may be more readily understood as the end of the day.
Midnight taken literally as a point in time is both the end of a day and the beginning of the next day.
Please note that the point in time which is the end of an hour is also the beginning of the next hour. The same issue occurs with minutes and seconds.
It's always the modulo that does it.
EB
 
Controversial:
Once you realise that 24:00 or 00:00 has zero duration you can realize the only answer is neither today or tomorrow.
Mark 24:00 is a zero point and as such doesn't materially exist.
Delta t=0 therefore distance is zero. Therefore at precisely 24:00 or 00:00 the universe is zero dimensional.

Have fun ....
 
Quantum Quack said:
Controversial:
Once you realise that 24:00 or 00:00 has zero duration you can realize the only answer is neither today or tomorrow.
Mark 24:00 is a zero point and as such doesn't materially exist.
Delta t=0 therefore distance is zero. Therefore at precisely 24:00 or 00:00 the universe is zero dimensional.

Have fun ....
Click to expand...
Just because t=0 does not mean distance is zero, only distance travelled is zero. A brick will still have three dimensions even if it is static.

As to the OP, and probably alluded to throughout the posts, it's like asking, when you cut a piece of paper in half, what bit does the middle belong to. :)
 
Sarkus said:
Just because t=0 does not mean distance is zero, only distance travelled is zero. A brick will still have three dimensions even if it is static.

As to the OP, and probably alluded to throughout the posts, it's like asking, when you cut a piece of paper in half, what bit does the middle belong to. :)
Click to expand...
For your contra to have merit you have to explain how anything that has zero duration in time can possibly exist.
The logic is inescapable.
Mark 24:00 or 00:00 (or any other point in time) is a moment of zero duration. Therefore logically at that precise point the universe is of zero dimensions.
So the answer to the OP is neither today or tomorrow.

(remember : we are discussing an exact point in time of zero duration.)
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top