God is defined, not described.

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Ted Grant II, Oct 9, 2017.

  1. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    I would point out, however, that you are presenting a subject deity for consideration; FSM can exist or not, and it speaks nothing of "God".

    And, for the record, one of the challenges about obscure attempts at humor↑ is the fact of an audience. There is an obscure bit about a phenomenon by which humans are so socially sympathetic we will invent another person in our heads to share a joke with if there is nobody around. Once your audience is anyone other than this reflection of ourselves, there is precisely no guarantee they understand you.

    And, yes, if that secondary echo seems somehow important to the idea of people inventing gods, well, yes, it is.
     
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  3. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I'll let your answers speak for themselves.

    To answer an earlier question from you . (your) God = Potential. The difference is that God is indescribable, while the various Potentials (inherent latent abilities which may become reality) have in large part been explained by science.
     
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  5. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    deleted for duplication
     
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  7. river

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    Jan

    What are you referring to ?
     
  8. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Yep. That's because they can be rational, logical and objective about it.
    As you have more than adequately shown*, some theists are incapable of being rational, logical or objective about it.

    Which is fine, but it means they cannot discuss it; only preach it.



    * most recently in the playing field metaphor, where you are only able to conceive of it with both teams on your side. Being able to only conceive of one's own beliefs is called catatonia.
     
  9. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Your insults highlight your inability to be rational.
    You're clearly out of your depth.

    Jan.
     
  10. river

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    Jan

    What or is god to you ?

    Just trying to understand where you are coming from ?
     
  11. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Logical dismantling is not insult.
    I gave an actual example where you demonstrated a lack of logical thinking.

    I can't help it if you say things that are easily refutable. That's on you.
     
  12. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I was merely pointing out the flaw in Jan's argument.
    I agree, as an ex entertainer I am well aware of establishing empathy (rapport) with your audience. This is why I qualified my answer with "obscure" which indicates that the humor I experienced in that moment might not be apparent to all.
    I am glad we agree on that point. It would seem that almost everyone, from children to elders have such a internal friend.

    I have heard named as the "over-soul" by some. To others this is God (or the Devil) speaking directly to them, which can be very dangerous if taken to extreme ends.

    Schizophrenia is such an extreme, where the secondary personality takes control, under certain circumstances.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2017
  13. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Asking what God Is, to me, is a pointless question.
    If you want to know what God is, I suggest you do some research on the subject,
    and from an opinion.
    Then you'll have an idea of where I'm coming from.

    Jan.
     
  14. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    You're irrational.
    You've yet to make a point, let alone logically dismantle anything.

    Jan.
     
  15. river

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    I have from religions to the cosmos

    But I have not yet got a clear picture of your stance on god .

    What is the problem of just simply stating your position ? Don't understand why you wouldn't ?
     
  16. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    I made my point, as witnessed, logically and descriptively.
    The fact that you don't like it, and are now digressing by trying to make this a mud-slinging, is your problem.
     
  17. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Jan Ardena:

    That's quite likely.

    Why not?

    What am I lacking?

    I'm listening. I just listened to you presuming God again from the start.

    Your "acceptance" of God is not a rational process. It's just you diving in with a belief, for no good reason. At least, that's what I'm getting from you.

    Yes, like pots and pans.

    OK.

    You're assuming there is a God to be without. That is not part of the definition of atheism.

    No. That's not it. I've come across many thoughtful, intelligent theists who are quite willing and able to face up to the difficulties with their belief systems. You do not fit that mould.

    Heh. It's dangerous to generalise. You should maybe try reading some theist discussion boards.

    You mean you haven't found an atheist who is willing to buy into your attempted redefinition of atheism? Surprise, surprise.

    I think I've been clear about what bothers me.

    No!

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    It appears we have reached an impasse. Actually, I think we've been there for a while now.

    You want to make a special pleading that God is different from everything else there is and so is exempt from having to exist or not exist. I reject that because it's a logical non-starter of a concept. I think you're putting it up only because you know that there's no good evidence that God exists and you need an ad hoc explanation for that.

    I could find many instances where what you actually wrote was what I quoted, almost word for word.

    I have no objection to this wording.

    One minute we're unable to perceive God. The next, we are able to perceive but reject God. And the next we actually have perceived but forget.

    Maybe there is no God.

    I already gave you the context in which it was used, i.e. to refer to a person who was considered insufficiently pious.

    I only okay with I don't believe in God. The others are problematic, for reasons I have explained previously at some length. If you're still unable to see the difference, there's little more I can do for you.

    The heart has a magical God sense, then, after all?

    Stop pretending you know that God exists. It is a futile exercise.
     
  18. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    If they let you post at all. You must declare belief in God before you are even permitted to post.
     
  19. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    LOL... comes to mind an old radio show "The Shadow Knows"
     
  20. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    It is what it is.

    That sounds like progress. I won't get my hopes up, though.

    It's okay. We don't need to have that discussion here.

    No need. I have only to read the first-hand testimonies of people who say "I used to be a believer, but now I don't think God exists", or "I used to think there was no God, but now I believe in Him".

    It's a fairly random, hit and miss kind of thing, isn't it? Either you're hit by the lucky Godly lightning bolt and - hallelujah! - you're a believer, or you're not.

    Lots of theists don't report their belief arising in quite that manner, though. I think that belief can develop gradually via indoctrination, and that it doesn't require the thunderbolt. And I'm not just talking about God belief, here.

    Is this your problem with objectivity vs subjectivity rearing its ugly head again?

    What's the difference between acceptance and belief, in this context?

    I'm frightened that you may live your entire life and never realise that your belief is fundamentally irrational. I'm frightened that there might be nothing I can do to help you. (But don't worry - it's only a mild fear. You have to take responsibility for your own life, after all.)
     
  21. river

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    Jan

    What god ? Just any god ?
     
  22. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Jan Ardena said
    Ever heard of Interoception? Helen Keller was blind and therefore had an entirely different experience of the world.
    All her visual senses were internalized .
    Her greatest discovery of reality was the feeling of water streaming over her hand, but without visual reinforcement the only way she could expresses her "controlled hallucination" as "feeling with your heart", because she was unable to mentally visualize the water, experienced it by the increase of her heart rate. Hence the connection of feeling with you heart.

    Not a persuasive argument.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2017
  23. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    I think I've given my stance on God, which is why I don't understand why you ask.

    Are you not satisfied with what I write about God. If not, why not?

    What have you learned about God, from all the research you say you done?

    Jan.
     

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