George Floyd trial,could you make a case for the defendant not being guilty of the charges?

wegs said:
The evidence lined up with the charges
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What I don't follow he was convicted on all 3 charges. I thought conviction on the most serious charge automatically means it has the lesser charges included

The lesser charges, I thought were there as back up if not convicted of the highest

So how does convicted on all 3 work please?

:)
 
Michael 345 said:
What I don't follow he was convicted on all 3 charges. I thought conviction on the most serious charge automatically means it has the lesser charges included

The lesser charges, I thought were there as back up if not convicted of the highest

So how does convicted on all 3 work
whether

:)
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Yea, I wasn’t quite sure how that all worked, if it were possible to be found guilty on all charges but from my understanding, the jury had to decide on the following: if Chauvin caused Floyd's death (substantial causal factor) and whether his actions were reasonable; each charge would then require, a different “element” of proof as to Chauvin's possible state of mind. (See the chart posted a page back for the “elements.”)

In other words, if the jury had felt that Chauvin’s negligence alone is what impacted Floyd’s death then I’m assuming manslaughter would have been the verdict.
 
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Thus Spoke said:
I think that the cause of death was an overdose.
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Experts disagree.

Seattle said:
Is it or are you just not capable of nuance? You're just on hysteria mode 24/7 I guess. Too bad, you miss a lot in life that way.
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You literally went from making excuses and saying it was a mistake and that it's one one should lose one's job over but don't need to go to prison to "Chauvin had too much "power" for his own good." and you don't think the verdict was unfair...

It's as though two different people are posting.

Or you are simply bending with the prevailing winds.

Seattle said:
This one IMO was just unfortunate, a mistake, you should lose your job but you probably don't need to go to prison.
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Seattle said:
I don't think he was railroaded. I think he got a more serious charge than some others and people are just tired of cop overreach and he might have paid part of that price but I don't think the verdict is "unfair". It is what it is.
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That's not nuance. That's a complete about face and trying to dig a way out.
 
Bells said:
Experts disagree.


You literally went from making excuses and saying it was a mistake and that it's one one should lose one's job over but don't need to go to prison to "Chauvin had too much "power" for his own good." and you don't think the verdict was unfair...

It's as though two different people are posting.

Or you are simply bending with the prevailing winds.





That's not nuance. That's a complete about face and trying to dig a way out.
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Dig out of what, caring what you think? Please.

Police have too much power. That needs to change. Sending a cop to prison doesn't change whether cops have too much power. The verdict wasn't unfair. The verdict is whatever the jury decides and it was done fairly.

I think the 2nd degree murder was a bit much but it's still within the range of reasonable outcomes.

Personally I don't think it does much for society for him to go to prison (or for many who are in prison for that matter).

I'm not "making excuses" for anyone. Let's face it, you're always emotional and upset about something. You don't think clearly. You may not be that bright either. I don't know about that one since you're always upset nature makes it difficult to tell for sure.
 
wegs said:
In other words, if the jury had felt that Chauvin’s negligence alone is what impacted Floyd’s death then I’m assuming manslaughter would have been the verdict.
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Yes I follow that

But what I mean / saying conviction of the most serious automatically implies they have worked their way up the lower guilty charges

Guilty of the highest includes the lowest

I understood the lower charges are included at the beginning to enable the jury to work downwards

OK we can't find him guilty of the highest - what about partial guilty? - is there a suitable charge/punishment for that?

If they go for the highest, on its own, and found not guilty, to try and have another bite filing lesser charges runs a risk, or might even be, double jeopardy (I think yes it is) because low charge evidence has already been considered / included (and rejected) in the higher charge

:)

(((way off topic were you the person looking for a animated profile icon?)))
 
Michael 345 said:
Yes I follow that

But what I mean / saying conviction of the most serious automatically implies they have worked their way up the lower guilty charges

Guilty of the highest includes the lowest

I understood the lower charges are included at the beginning to enable the jury to work downwards

OK we can't find him guilty of the highest - what about partial guilty? - is there a suitable charge/punishment for that?

If they go for the highest, on its own, and found not guilty, to try and have another bite filing lesser charges runs a risk, or might even be, double jeopardy (I think yes it is) because low charge evidence has already been considered / included (and rejected) in the higher charge

:)

(((way off topic were you the person looking for a animated profile icon?)))
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They each had different elements so they voted on them all but his sentence will be based on the highest charge. They may even consider aggravating circumstances for the sentencing phase so he may be going away for a long time.
 
Michael 345 said:
Yes I follow that

But what I mean / saying conviction of the most serious automatically implies they have worked their way up the lower guilty charges

Guilty of the highest includes the lowest

I understood the lower charges are included at the beginning to enable the jury to work downwards

OK we can't find him guilty of the highest - what about partial guilty? - is there a suitable charge/punishment for that?

If they go for the highest, on its own, and found not guilty, to try and have another bite filing lesser charges runs a risk, or might even be, double jeopardy (I think yes it is) because low charge evidence has already been considered / included (and rejected) in the higher charge
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What Seattle said.

(((way off topic were you the person looking for a animated profile icon?)))
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Yes! My original thread is in site feedback, if you want to share anything there, as to not derail this one. :smile:
 
wegs said:
This also happened today:

https://www.10tv.com/article/news/l...mbus/530-c77bb47e-97d1-47b5-8ed8-099c105a0f20

What is going on with police training, or lack thereof? :redface:

*Warning, the video shows the bodycam footage of the shooting.
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What would be the appropriate training for stopping a 16 year old girl with a knife about to stab another girl?

All of those people standing around couldn't control their own kid/neighbor etc. Who lives like this? Does this kind of thing happen in your neighborhood? There is no way I'd want to be a cop not that I would want to under any circumstance.

This can't be blamed on poverty. The houses are nice. This isn't a skin color thing. This is just people who live like animals and sometimes they get shot like animals.

Why do we keep blaming things like this on skin color? People need to accept some responsibility for their own circumstances. Attack someone with a knife in front of a cop and you get shot.
 
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Seattle said:
They each had different elements so they voted on them all but his sentence will be based on the highest charge. They may even consider aggravating circumstances for the sentencing phase so he may be going away for a long time.
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Yes I get it - the sentence - highest one

Why do the two below even get a mention?

:)
 
Thus Spoke said:
I think that the cause of death was an overdose.
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That's fine; everyone has an opinion. The two pathologists who examined the body thought otherwise.

So on one hand we have two medical experts who have trained to be able to determine cause of death, and have years of experience doing just that. They examined the body and determined that he had been suffocated due to pressure on his back.

On the other hand we have some guy on the Internet who has never seen the body and who has, at best, a Facebook MD, who thinks it was an overdose based on what he saw some other guy say on the Internet.

Not too hard to figure out who to believe. The jury, apparently, thought the same way. Good for them.
 
Bells said:
She was armed with a knife and about to stab someone. There wasn't anything he could have done.

The guy who kicked the girl on the ground should also be arrested.
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Why not taze her?
 
Bells said:
It's called nuance Billvon. Nuance!
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No one has ever accused you two of that I assume. You guys are two people who have never tried to walk in anyone else's shoes or to look at both sides of an issue I'm quite sure.

"Lock him up" is much more satisfying, am I right!
 
Seattle said:
What would be the appropriate training for stopping a 16 year old girl with a knife about to stab another girl?
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To taze her first.

All of those people standing around couldn't control their own kid/neighbor etc. Who lives like this? Does this kind of thing happen in your neighborhood? There is no way I'd want to be a cop not that I would want to under any circumstance.
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No, this doesn't happen in my neighborhood, but supposedly this girl had some emotional issues - I believe she was living in a foster home in that neighborhood.

This can't be blamed on poverty. The houses are nice. This isn't a skin color thing. This is just people who live like animals and sometimes they get shot like animals.
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No, some people have problems, and maybe she needed help but never got it. We don't know the full story, yet. She shouldn't have been 'shot like an animal.' What?

Why do we keep blaming things like this on skin color? People need to accept some responsibility for their own circumstances. Attack someone with a knife in front of a cop and you get shot.
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I'm not claiming these police officers were racist. And yes, people need to accept responsibility for their own actions, but I just don't think he needed to use lethal force. Taze and cuff her, why is that not an option?
 
wegs said:
Why not taze her?
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Because the girl with the knife was inches away from stabbing the other girl.

If someone stabs and kills a friend of mine I don't think I'd feel better knowing "well, they had emotional issues".
 
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