Of course it is. This isn't a fucking wedding, you know.
...should I be alarmed that I'm finding some valid points with Foley here?
Gadhafi is dead.
- Thread starter Shadow1
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Of course it is. This isn't a fucking wedding, you know.
...should I be alarmed that I'm finding some valid points with Foley here?
Bells
Staff member
Actually poppet, no. The first part of the report is what the Libyans presented. The second part of the report is Libya's answers to what other States questioned about their human rights records. In other words, Libya was trying to paint itself as a State of virtue and other States cited their concerns and then stated their recommendations. Learn to read.
Yep. And millions also supported Hitler and other despotic meglomaniacs. Does not mean the majority of the population agreed. If he was so 'godly', there would not have been continued concerns with the human rights abuses under his reign and there would not have been the upsurge in desire from the Libyans to dethrone him.
I do not particularly agree with his murder, but I don't disagree that he should not have been removed from power by Libyans. The man was a pariah and a murderous one.
*Guffaw!*
No actually, he remained in charge since his coup in September 1969. Hence why he was deemed the 'Permanent Leader'..
Ah yes, the hero.. If you hate Muslims and Africans, you would find him to be a great leader, because he sure murdered enough Muslims and Africans during his 42 year reign.
You know, I can sort of understand now what led the rage of the Libyan rebels to do what they did to him in the end. Does not make their actions right, but it does make it understandable.
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you are a good socialist Geoff, Free education and Free healthcare a human right that Gaddaffi provided to his people.
You should learn English, actually Yes, the UN had complete access to Libya since 2003 with Libya eventually joining the U.N. Human Rights Council, there was nothing for Libya to hide from the UN. The report was authored by the UN from questions concerning Libya from International members and the panel from Libya answering those questions.
2009 Human Rights Report: Libya
2010 Human Rights Report: Libya
The Libyans didnt dethrone him, it was an army of mercenaries raised up by NATO with a few Libyan malcontents, who advanced behind a NATO blitzkrieg.
And you being born an African I imagine you were in a refugee camp before you escaped to Australia, explains your anger.
Bells
Staff member
The content page gives you the first clue Brian. And then when you read the first part of the report, it gives you an even bigger clue that even you could not miss. But hey, he was your hero! Being the white supremacist that you are, of course you are going to think he is a hero, since he killed so many Africans and Muslims.
I'm sorry, are you claiming the rebels are not Libyans?
*Snort*
It would be ironic if the Arabic mercenaries that he helped fund to commit genocide in countries like Sudan suddenly turned on him. Alas no. The rag tag rebels who brought down his regime were Libyans.
Ah, you again show your true racist and white supremacist colours Brian.
Why do you assume I was a refuge who "escaped" to Australia? Do you view all Africans or people born in Africa or countries surrounding it that way? You see Brian, this explains your hypocritical racist attitudes and how and why you would find someone like Gadhafi to be a hero. It just kills you that I have African ancestry and am living in Australia, doesn't it? You keep bringing it up constantly, so it must annoy you somewhat. People like you make me prouder to have said slave ancestry.
Bells
Staff member
You still don't understand the nature of those UN reports, do you?
In 1972, Gaddafi created the Islamic Legion as a tool to unify and Arabize the region. The priority of the Legion was first Chad, and then Sudan. In Darfur, a western province of Sudan, Gaddafi supported the creation of the Arab Gathering (Tajammu al-Arabi), which according to Gérard Prunier was "a militantly racist and pan-Arabist organization which stressed the 'Arab' character of the province."[25] The two organizations shared members and a source of support, and the distinction between the two is often ambiguous.
This Islamic Legion was mostly composed of immigrants from poorer Sahelian countries,[26] but also, according to a source, thousands of Pakistanis who had been recruited in 1981 with the false promise of civilian jobs once in Libya.[27] Generally speaking, the Legion's members were immigrants who had gone to Libya with no thought of fighting wars, and had been provided with inadequate military training and had sparse commitment. A French journalist, speaking of the Legion's forces in Chad, observed that they were "foreigners, Arabs or Africans, mercenaries in spite of themselves, wretches who had come to Libya hoping for a civilian job, but found themselves signed up more or less by force to go and fight in an unknown desert."[26]
At the beginning of the 1987 Libyan offensive into Chad, it maintained a force of 2,000 in Darfur. The nearly continuous cross-border raids that resulted greatly contributed to a separate ethnic conflict within Darfur that killed about 9,000 people between 1985 and 1988.[28]
Janjaweed, a group that is accused by the U.S. of carrying out a genocide in Darfur in the 2000s, emerged in 1988 and some its leaders are former legionnaires.
[Source]
More here: http://www.lrb.co.uk/v26/n15/alex-de-waal/counter-insurgency-on-the-cheap
And here: http://www.defenceviewpoints.co.uk/articles-and-analysis/civil-militias-in-northern-africa-echoes-of-gaddafis-islamic-legion
This Islamic Legion was mostly composed of immigrants from poorer Sahelian countries,[26] but also, according to a source, thousands of Pakistanis who had been recruited in 1981 with the false promise of civilian jobs once in Libya.[27] Generally speaking, the Legion's members were immigrants who had gone to Libya with no thought of fighting wars, and had been provided with inadequate military training and had sparse commitment. A French journalist, speaking of the Legion's forces in Chad, observed that they were "foreigners, Arabs or Africans, mercenaries in spite of themselves, wretches who had come to Libya hoping for a civilian job, but found themselves signed up more or less by force to go and fight in an unknown desert."[26]
At the beginning of the 1987 Libyan offensive into Chad, it maintained a force of 2,000 in Darfur. The nearly continuous cross-border raids that resulted greatly contributed to a separate ethnic conflict within Darfur that killed about 9,000 people between 1985 and 1988.[28]
Janjaweed, a group that is accused by the U.S. of carrying out a genocide in Darfur in the 2000s, emerged in 1988 and some its leaders are former legionnaires.
[Source]
More here: http://www.lrb.co.uk/v26/n15/alex-de-waal/counter-insurgency-on-the-cheap
And here: http://www.defenceviewpoints.co.uk/articles-and-analysis/civil-militias-in-northern-africa-echoes-of-gaddafis-islamic-legion
That is just some of what your hero is responsible for.
About?What.... angry.
You see Brian, I know your posting history across the forums. I also know of your attitude towards Africans and those who come to Australia. You are a white supremacist and a bigot, so of course you will hate the fact that Africans are being allowed into Australia by the Australian government. The irony of course is that many of the African refugees seeking asylum in Australia are escaping the Arab forces that Gadhafi helped create, train and fund and supported on their genocidal rampage across many parts of Africa. So your hero helped cause the issues in Africa that resulted in millions of refugees, some of whom were granted asylum in Australia, something you apparently deplore. I must say, I do love google.
I do have African ancestry and I am very proud of it. Just as I am proud of my French and Dutch ancestry. The very fact that it burns you that an "African" like me could have migrated to Australia, makes me smile, not angry. But actually very happy. Do you know why? Because it makes white supremacist racists like you unhappy.
Wow Bell . I would have never guessed ? My aunt was named Bell . I like that name because of it . I light up when I see your name because of it . Not to mention how much I agree with things you say . Wow I would have never guessed . I guess the saying goes both ways . You can't judge a cover by its book . I didn't mean that in a sexual way either so get that out of your mind right now ! I mean it ! No . Stop it ! Don't think it !
O.K. just playing Bell . I like you , and if ya can't tease people you like who can you tease ?
O.K. just playing Bell . I like you , and if ya can't tease people you like who can you tease ?
Or you simply cannot comprehend that the report was authored by other nations and that the UN had for several years access to Libya and the Libyan Panel were interviewed and authored answers satisfactory to those questions.
Whoppty do, A seccesionist civil war fueled by America erupts on Libya's border, and Libya sends troops to its border to prevent a spill over. And you post sources from western right wing sources.
Bells
Staff member
Read the full report Brian.
That will be the third and final clue for you.
You don't really know much about Gadhafi's invasion of Chad and his personal wish to flood the region with Arabs to make them into Arabic states and of course, his support of apartheid like policies where Africans were denied basic human rights over Arabs and Muslims he invited to migrate to the region, no? You also seem to know little of the legion he helped form, funded and trained and armed who then committed gross acts of genocide and human rights abuses against Africans.
The reality was he was a cold blooded killer who supported genocidal regimes and who also funded, supported and armed troops who then went on to commit gross acts of genocide and human rights abuses.
He is your hero!
You think he was a great man.
So still trying to pass yourself off as a Celtic Brian? How's that working out for you these days in those white supremacist sites you frequent?
I think I can safely declare you havent a clue as to what you are talking about.
And you are still embarrassed of being African, oh and an Immigrant to my country.
Bells
Staff member
Yes Brian, because the dictation about what the "Presentation by the State under review", whereby the State (ie Libya) presented its beliefs in human rights and how political freedom was guaranteed, etc (without mentioning of course that the law in Libya views political dissent as a crime and those who do dissent can face a number of years in jail, was really beside the point). I mean, I won't point out the irony of Libya pointing out in point 22 for example that the external human rights groups they mentioned were actually those who are run by Gahdafi.. But read the reports and you will see how many countries were concerned with the continuing human rights abuses.. But hey, you pick the answers given and presented by Libya about its supposed great human rights track record. Because of course, Gahdafi would never lie about how well and free Libyans are, would he? I mean his human rights record over the last 42 years was, well, perfect, wasn't it Brian?
I mean it is why the Arab League suspended Libya from taking part in its council meetings in February because of the gross human rights abuses Libyan soldiers serving under Gahdafi were committing, right?Why would I be embarrassed, Brian? I have lived here since I was 8 years of age.
You are acting as if I should be embarrassed for migrating to 'your' country. Why is that?
Does it anger you that coloured folks with African ancestry can be allowed to migrate to 'your' country? Does it bother you? You are acting as if it is a bad thing and something that should be ashamed of. Why is that Brian?
...... oh and an Immigrant to my country.
Why "my country", Brian.
Why wouldn't you say "our country"?
That makes it sound like you think an immigrant never truly belongs.
Like you have more rights than someone who arrives in your country as a refugee or guest.
And you make "Immigrant" sound like something bad.
Is that because you are getting annoyed, and want to upset Bells,
or is that how you feel generally.
Nearly everyone in Australia has roots outside the country.
That's no news to you.
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Not that im defending brian but isnt that exactly what happens? In australia the goverment made laws to allow citizenship to be revocked for certain crimes which cant happen to someone born here and in the US you cant be president if you wernt born there even if you moved there the next day
Both of those are bad laws I think.
If somebody is the best choice, they are the best choice.
And once you adopt a child, you are their parent no matter what.
Same should go for Citizenship, otherwise you are getting something devalued.
What do you think?
If somebody is the best choice, they are the best choice.
And once you adopt a child, you are their parent no matter what.
Same should go for Citizenship, otherwise you are getting something devalued.
What do you think?
I agree but you can hardly blame people for seeing immigrants as somehow "outsiders" when we have an opposition leader like Abbott and laws like that on the books (I honestly don't know if the governor general can be born outside of our country or if that was another law that was copied from the US). Then there is Andrew Bolt. The courts decision should have been a victory over racism, instead it has fueled the racists and calls are made from people like Abbott to dump the LAW instead of to dump the racist.
Its frustrating (at the LEAST) but its the way things are. We aren't the welcoming country we wish
Its frustrating (at the LEAST) but its the way things are. We aren't the welcoming country we wish
It looks like Libyan freedom is short lived:
http://news.yahoo.com/sharia-law-declaration-raises-concerns-libya-174347939.html
http://news.yahoo.com/sharia-law-declaration-raises-concerns-libya-174347939.html
here it goes again, the racism comes out. If "we are a Christian nation" is the battle cry of Howardites and parliament cant even open without "the lords prayer" and i cant see the US being less so why do those who CLAIM that they support Islam, claim that they don't hate Muslims suddenly object when they base there legal system on there own religious texts. The hypocracy and racism is disgraceful, its especially ridiculous when people actually look at WHY they object, ie the prohibition of charging interest in loans.
Nope.
Islam finally figured out how to get around that rediculous interpretation that was holding them back.
So the net effect is the same as charging interest.
It's racist to oppose a legal system imposed by a gang of reactionary religious fucktards? Well, shucks: guess ah'll be a-votin' for that nice Pat Robertson feller when he comes up fer election agin. Ah cain't stand him, but any opposition to him must be racism, and ah just cain't staind th' accusation.
Seriously, grow the fuck up.
Support Islam? Several questions here: why should they support it at all? Should they support Judaism? Christianity? Bahaism? Why? To you mean 'tolerate'? So we Christiun folkses should support, say, the criminalization of homosexuality. Or the subjugation of women. Why, hell, that's religiously motivated, too! If you disapprove, yur a racist!
Because, frankly, that's where this is probably headed. Oh, sure sure: maybe this time it'll all work out, dozens of examples notwithstanding. But maybe instead, based on the track record of fundies in general, a thinking person ought to generally shun the overarching ambitions of religious revanchionists trying to shut down the rights of a majority, when all's said and done, of the bloody population. Maybe such revanchionists are retards, and maybe the people who enable them have their heads squarely up their asses. We don't just say that, of course, because it just isn't polite, even if it's true.
Well, who is the "their own"? Secularists? Women? If you're not part of "their own" in the new Libya, who are you a part of? Who will decide what ends up on the books in Libya, and why? Maybe this should be the subject of some discussion.
Well, if you'd like to justify it, go ahead. I'm as reasonable a person as you could want to discuss it with, so let's see what you've got. Hell, if it's so durn obvious, you might even convince me.
Edit: oh, and sorry, but what race is Islam again?
Bells
Staff member
This is something that the Libyans should be allowed to vote on, not be imposed upon them. From the article:
"Many Libyans awaiting Sunday's historic speech expressed surprise at the decision by the National Transitional Council leader to mention the role of sharia law in the new country before addressing such important issues as security and education.
"It's shocking and insulting to state, after thousands of Libyans have paid for freedom with their lives, that the priority of the new leadership is to allow men to marry in secret," said Rim, 40, a Libyan feminist who requested anonymity.
"We did not slay Goliath so that we now live under the Inquisition," she told AFP.
----------------------------------------------------------
Adelrahman al-Shatr, one of the founders of the centre-right Party of National Solidarity, launched just last week, said it was premature for the NTC leader to speak about the policies of the new state.
"It is a subject that should be discussed with the different political groups and with the Libyan people," he said.
"These declarations create feelings of pain and bitterness among women who sacrificed so many martyrs," in the eight-month battle against Kadhafi loyalists, he added.
"By abolishing the marriage law, women lose the right to keep the family home if they divorce. It is a disaster for Libyan women."
"
"It's shocking and insulting to state, after thousands of Libyans have paid for freedom with their lives, that the priority of the new leadership is to allow men to marry in secret," said Rim, 40, a Libyan feminist who requested anonymity.
"We did not slay Goliath so that we now live under the Inquisition," she told AFP.
----------------------------------------------------------
Adelrahman al-Shatr, one of the founders of the centre-right Party of National Solidarity, launched just last week, said it was premature for the NTC leader to speak about the policies of the new state.
"It is a subject that should be discussed with the different political groups and with the Libyan people," he said.
"These declarations create feelings of pain and bitterness among women who sacrificed so many martyrs," in the eight-month battle against Kadhafi loyalists, he added.
"By abolishing the marriage law, women lose the right to keep the family home if they divorce. It is a disaster for Libyan women."
"
So do you think the Libyans expressing concerns in Libya are being racist? I do not think they are. They are expressing concern that this is being implemented first and foremost without their even having a say in the matter.
They should be given a say on this and be given the right to vote on it. But they are not.