Existence of god

Write4U said:
The Holy Bible and other religious texts were meant to ease suffering? Or was it to establish order?

Science and other creative logistics are the actual expressions of the amount of joy and suffering of peoples and the causal forces.
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I disagree. Science and logistics are a source of stress. The economy and corporations are trying to squeeze the life out of its employees by cutting costs, laying off workers, and workers the remaining work force to death. The circuit boards I troubleshoot are getting more complicated, there are fewer engineers to explain the technical details of ever more obscure technology.

At least with religion we had hope of a joyful afterlife. But science ruined it. Now, we get worked to death until we die, and that's it. There is no happy ending.
 
Write4U said:
The Holy Bible and other religious texts were meant to ease suffering? Or was it to establish order?

Science and other creative logistics are the actual expressions of the amount of joy and suffering of peoples and the causal forces.
Click to expand...

In Buddhism the main goal is to defeat suffering from its root. In Christianity the goal is to enforce a devine judgement of paradise or eternal suffering based on a person's acceptance of Christian dogma, or in some cases on a person's actions in life without renouncement of said actions. Eternal suffering is an end goal in Christianity in some cases. So you are correct about most religions, Buddhism being an exception. I am not a Buddhist but there is a distinction here with respect to suffering. Not many of us Westerners read Buddhist texts. They are all about the end of suffering. The Bible, not so much.
 
All religions ease existential dread. The question then becomes: which religion is right for you. I visited a Church of Christ the other day. It's actually nice to be among a community of living breathing human beings. In contrast, what does atheism have to offer? Answer: lots of meaninglessness.
 
Mazulu said:
I disagree. Science and logistics are a source of stress. The economy and corporations are trying to squeeze the life out of its employees by cutting costs, laying off workers, and workers the remaining work force to death. The circuit boards I troubleshoot are getting more complicated, there are fewer engineers to explain the technical details of ever more obscure technology.

At least with religion we had hope of a joyful afterlife. But science ruined it. Now, we get worked to death until we die, and that's it. There is no happy ending.
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"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
-- Albert Einstein
 
Mazulu said:
All religions ease existential dread. The question then becomes: which religion is right for you. I visited a Church of Christ the other day. It's actually nice to be among a community of living breathing human beings. In contrast, what does atheism have to offer? Answer: lots of meaninglessness.
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Yeah, it's not for the weak minded.
 
The biggest mistake (though I think it's intentional here by Mazulu, because he's a troll whose only purpose here is to piss on things he disagrees with) is contrasting religion and atheism. They aren't analogs. If you're looking for an atheistic alternative to Christianity, you're better off looking at something like secular humanism. Atheism by itself is no more and no less than a disbelief in God, just as theism is no more and no less than a belief in at least one god. Theism has no dogma or scripture; for that, you have to look to religion.

Of course, if all you have to look forward to is a pleasant afterlife, I would suggest the existential is the least of your problems.
 
Mazulu said:
All religions ease existential dread. The question then becomes: which religion is right for you. I visited a Church of Christ the other day. It's actually nice to be among a community of living breathing human beings. In contrast, what does atheism have to offer? Answer: lots of meaninglessness.
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People who don't believe in the supernatural are still among a community of living breathing human beings. As long as you don't hang out at the zoo it's hard to avoid.
 
What Is Differrence Betweeen God and Univers/Everything?

What is differrence between God/God( ess ) and Universe?

r6
 
Balerion said:
The biggest mistake (though I think it's intentional here by Mazulu, because he's a troll whose only purpose here is to piss on things he disagrees with) is contrasting religion and atheism. They aren't analogs. If you're looking for an atheistic alternative to Christianity, you're better off looking at something like secular humanism. Atheism by itself is no more and no less than a disbelief in God, just as theism is no more and no less than a belief in at least one god. Theism has no dogma or scripture; for that, you have to look to religion.

Of course, if all you have to look forward to is a pleasant afterlife, I would suggest the existential is the least of your problems.
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I find that my soul is nourished by things that are just not rigorously defined. I find it tiresome that I have to define everything that brings me pleasure or risk abuse. To tell you the truth, I think that human beings need unallocated mental resources that can be used for art, beauty, pleasure, and the enjoyment of life. If science and right, and there is no afterlife, then I'll be damned if I'm going to spend that time trying please a bunch of intellectual monkeys.
 
Mazulu said:
I find that my soul is nourished by things that are just not rigorously defined. I find it tiresome that I have to define everything that brings me pleasure or risk abuse. To tell you the truth, I think that human beings need unallocated mental resources that can be used for art, beauty, pleasure, and the enjoyment of life. If science and right, and there is no afterlife, then I'll be damned if I'm going to spend that time trying please a bunch of intellectual monkeys.
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If the moral of this story is that one is better off being stupid so they can enjoy the simple things in life, you're not going to find a second-sayer here.
 
Mazulu;

When I read your posts, I sense that you feel that life is an "either or" proposition. As though, you live your life in a particular way because you believe God to exist, but you have gone on to infer that if there is no God, you would live in nearly an entirely different way. Why not just live your life, treating people with love and decency, because that is a positive and meaningful way to live? Sometimes I get the sense from reading your posts, that you feel life only has purpose and meaning because you believe in a Deity. How can a mere belief change your entire outlook on life?

Without broad brushing atheism, why do you feel that way?
 
He also seems to imply that those who don't believe also don't enjoy the arts? Everyone who isn't a believer isn't necessarily interested in science either. I am but that has nothing to do with not enjoying the arts.

Science isn't the boogyman of religion. Lack of evidence is. However most everyone (theist and non-theist) enjoy the arts and every other aspect of life.
 
Seattle said:
He also seems to imply that those who don't believe also don't enjoy the arts? Everyone who isn't a believer isn't necessarily interested in science either. I am but that has nothing to do with not enjoying the arts.

Science isn't the boogyman of religion. Lack of evidence is. However most everyone (theist and non-theist) enjoy the arts and every other aspect of life.
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That's true, good point.

It's funny, but I think religion (on average) restricts how believers view life and their role in it. As if nothing at all makes sense without religion supplying the explanations. I remember thinking this way myself when I followed religion -- how I viewed the world was through the lens (er...filter) of Christianity.

Life can be as simple or as complicated as we like it to be. Religion makes it more complicated, in my opinion.
 
wegs said:
Mazulu;

When I read your posts, I sense that you feel that life is an "either or" proposition. As though, you live your life in a particular way because you believe God to exist, but you have gone on to infer that if there is no God, you would live in nearly an entirely different way. Why not just live your life, treating people with love and decency, because that is a positive and meaningful way to live? Sometimes I get the sense from reading your posts, that you feel life only has purpose and meaning because you believe in a Deity. How can a mere belief change your entire outlook on life?

Without broad brushing atheism, why do you feel that way?
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I could be happy if consciousness survived death as a spirit. But there is no evidence to support that belief. It means that there are no ascended masters looking down upon us from on high, it means that we have to conform the logic and mathematics, or we perish. It means that emotions, feelings, convictions and values are worth nothing. It means that integrity, honor, goodness, compassion, love, sactity, holiness, loyalty, mercy and so many more religious and spiritual experiences mean nothing. It means there is no accounting in the afterlife. It means that we can defy justice and get away with evil.

In my opinion, science has gone too far. Science has killed the spirit and the soul of humanity. As a result of that, we are all enslaved to the dominion of mathematics and logic. Life was never meant to be sterilized by mathematics.
 
wegs said:
That's true, good point.

It's funny, but I think religion (on average) restricts how believers view life and their role in it. As if nothing at all makes sense without religion supplying the explanations. I remember thinking this way myself when I followed religion -- how I viewed the world was through the lens (er...filter) of Christianity.

Life can be as simple or as complicated as we like it to be. Religion makes it more complicated, in my opinion.
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It is interesting to get your perspective on these things. I always just assumed that most religious people aren't really all that religious and just are in it for the cultural aspects. I guess many of them actually do "believe" :)

It's seems that religion paints a dim view of the world (you are all sinners, etc) and then gives one relief as a believer :) Whereas if someone never had those beliefs in the first place they wouldn't have such a dim view of the world and wouldn't need religion to bring peace and contentment to their lives :)
 
Mazulu said:
I could be happy if consciousness survived death as a spirit. But there is no evidence to support that belief. It means that there are no ascended masters looking down upon us from on high, it means that we have to conform the logic and mathematics, or we perish. It means that emotions, feelings, convictions and values are worth nothing. It means that integrity, honor, goodness, compassion, love, sactity, holiness, loyalty, mercy and so many more religious and spiritual experiences mean nothing. It means there is no accounting in the afterlife. It means that we can defy justice and get away with evil.

In my opinion, science has gone too far. Science has killed the spirit and the soul of humanity. As a result of that, we are all enslaved to the dominion of mathematics and logic. Life was never meant to be sterilized by mathematics.
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Like going to the doctor and he diagnoses what ails you and then complaining that the doctor took all the spiritual mystery out of your disease by identifying it. You know that diseases used to be diagnosed as demon possession? :shrug:
 
Mazulu;

If you believe in God, do you not believe he/it is the "creator" of science? Perhaps what troubles you, is you feel mankind has placed the gift (science) ahead of the giver (god)? :eek:

I might not believe as you do anymore, but because I once did, your viewpoint isn't complete noise to me. Although, I've always managed to view science in a different light than you. (I've never viewed science as a competitor or rival to religion/spirituality.)
 
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