Existence of god

God = Universe= Physical/energy Spirit

TruthSeeker said:
rr6, you are not being very scientific in your communication. In order to properly communicate what you are trying to say, you have to be a lot more detailed, organized and specific, following a clear thread. You also need to draw from the already existing science and experimental evidence, and from that give the more in-depth interpretation you are trying to convey. cole grey said it well..
Try to start where you finished...
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TS, you need to start at the beginning of my post(s) and when you get to a word you don't understand, either consult a dictionary or ask me.

A 10 year can grasp easily the simple concepts in clear format I have posted. You and others here have mental block to simple concepts, simple facts and simple truths.

Your mental blocks may arise for differrent reasons. I laid out some but there are more and they all overlap just as the sciences overlap.
Please address my comments as stated, and either some rationally logical common sense that invalidates anything I've stated, or access yourself some dictionaries, or be specific with your questions of these simple concepts that appear to not be able to grasp.

The words are English so I understand that may be a problem for some readers. I've always offerred my assistance to those who are sincere in their efforts to understand and actually expand their consicousness on more cosmically generalized scale.

God = Universe or vice versa if you prefer. The sequential order is not significant here. I believe I have posted clearly definitions of God and made clear to others that having a common agreement on definitions of God and other words is key to having communication.

The truth is out there for those with sincere heart and some effort to find it.

Spirit-1 = physical/energy or vice versa if you prefer. Get access to some dictionarys and begin to expand your mind. You might actually enjoy it and learn something in the process.

r6
 
Have you ever run your bullshit by a ten-year-old? You keep saying one could understand your concepts, but I see nothing clear about anything you've written.
 
rr6 said:
TS, you need to start at the beginning of my post(s) and when you get to a word you don't understand, either consult a dictionary or ask me.

A 10 year can grasp easily the simple concepts in clear format I have posted. You and others here have mental block to simple concepts, simple facts and simple truths.

Your mental blocks may arise for differrent reasons. I laid out some but there are more and they all overlap just as the sciences overlap.
Please address my comments as stated, and either some rationally logical common sense that invalidates anything I've stated, or access yourself some dictionaries, or be specific with your questions of these simple concepts that appear to not be able to grasp.

The words are English so I understand that may be a problem for some readers. I've always offerred my assistance to those who are sincere in their efforts to understand and actually expand their consicousness on more cosmically generalized scale.

God = Universe or vice versa if you prefer. The sequential order is not significant here. I believe I have posted clearly definitions of God and made clear to others that having a common agreement on definitions of God and other words is key to having communication.

The truth is out there for those with sincere heart and some effort to find it.

Spirit-1 = physical/energy or vice versa if you prefer. Get access to some dictionarys and begin to expand your mind. You might actually enjoy it and learn something in the process.

r6
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Hey rr6;

So, this sounds slightly similar to pantheism...you are familiar, yes?
 
10 Year Olds Intellectual Openess Far Beyond Most Adults. imho

wegs said:
Hey rr6;
So, this sounds slightly similar to pantheism...you are familiar, yes?
Click to expand...

I recall looking into that some 12 years back, when some mentioned it to me. Isnt that a God for 5 kingdoms of biolgoicals, and water, fire wind, rock etc...?

It was interesting in no way have I ever stated/implied/inferred that each of these are a God or god.

God = Universe is simple concept that others here have a mental block to along with anything else I state.

So many adults become so closed minded to anything outside their knowns, religon, formal education etc..that the loose touch with rationally logical thought processes and can only belive a specialized narrow set of ideas that they have been conditioned to believe.

It is sad state of affairs for humanity, as fairly obvious to those who are actuall paying attention to global events.

Universe = God( ess ) and that is with capital U and capital G. :D

I'm pretty sure I've laid out various ways of definning God. Most of these others have little not nothing to offer, that in any way validates any of my comments as stated, so their ego allows them to reply with nothing of any valid signifcance for this forum, much less for our greater humanity. It is sad sad when this happens on a forum where most would think truth and integrity would be in high regards.

Panthisim sounds like it may of something to do with Peter Pan, or Panthers or wasn't there half-man half-goat named Pan. Pan American airlines. Panama canal....hey Pan-a-MA and MA has the birth canal from which Pan arrives on Earth, or something like that ha ha!

Contractions >IN< and resultant is the baby named Pan pops <OUT>.

Gravity( membrane/womb ) is >IN< and embraces and contains fermions( matter ) and other bosons( forces ).

Fermions and bosons = spirit-1 = Occupied Space = Universe = God = Physical/energy and is no brainer for those who do not have mental blocks to truth, rationality, logic and common sense.

'Boy that horse sure is spirited', meaning, that horsehas a lot of energy/physical. The only nonsense around here is those who offer us those words "nonsense" and "gibberish". Sad :( lack of moral integrity.

It is no wonder humanity and overall global condition is the shape it is in. But hey, were in great shape for the shape were in.

r6
 
rr6 said:
Panthisim sounds like it may of something to do with Peter Pan, or Panthers or wasn't there half-man half-goat named Pan. Pan American airlines. Panama canal....hey Pan-a-MA and MA has the birth canal from which Pan arrives on Earth, or something like that ha ha!
Click to expand...

lol, hmmm...not quite. :p

In a nutshell, Pantheism presents that the universe is one with God, or is one or 'identical' with Divinity.
Einstein was thought by some to be a Pantheist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism
 
wegs said:
lol, hmmm...not quite. :p

In a nutshell, Pantheism presents that the universe is one with God, or is one or 'identical' with Divinity.
Einstein was thought by some to be a Pantheist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism
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Yep, one of his famous utterances when arguing quantum mechanics with Neils Bohr [from memory] was "God does not play dice with the Universe" when discussing the uncertainties of that area of physics.
 
paddoboy said:
Yep, one of his famous utterances when arguing quantum mechanics with Neils Bohr [from memory] was "God does not play dice with the Universe" when discussing the uncertainties of that area of physics.
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He didn't believe in the idea of a ''personal God,'' but he had views that seemed to lean towards Pantheism, from some of the different sites I've run across, lately. I find Pantheism to be an interesting concept, but yet, it seems a bit 'out there.' :eek:
 
From the different things I've read, it would seem his views were somewhat sympathetic to Pantheism. I guess we'll never know...for certain. lol ;)
 
wegs said:
From the different things I've read, it would seem his views were somewhat sympathetic to Pantheism. I guess we'll never know...for certain. lol ;)
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I don't view his belief as pantheistic. From my perspective, he felt awe at the universe, and in our infantile language the best way to describe the feeling is "religious," and the mechanisms behind it all "divine." I guess in general pantheism seems silly and unnecessary. If God isn't an intelligent being, then what's the point of calling it God? If the universe works a certain way, can't it just be the universe? Why ascribe mystical qualities to it?

Same goes for agnosticism. No rational person thinks that we can answer the fundamental question of whether there is a prime mover or some extra-universal power behind existence, so what's the point of giving ourselves a name specific to it? The only relevant question is whether or not you believe in God, not whether or not you think the question can be answered. It's like calling yourself a Lefthandtheist, because you thnk God is left-handed. Who gives a shit?

To the "God doesn't roll dice" bit, it doesn't speak to his beliefs one way or the other. Again, he was hobbled by a language rife with scriptural idioms and phrases where there are no simple alternatives. The best way to say "I don't believe the universe is random," with conviction and flair is to say "God does not roll dice." At least at the time.
 
Balerion said:
I don't view his belief as pantheistic. From my perspective, he felt awe at the universe, and in our infantile language the best way to describe the feeling is "religious," and the mechanisms behind it all "divine." I guess in general pantheism seems silly and unnecessary. If God isn't an intelligent being, then what's the point of calling it God? If the universe works a certain way, can't it just be the universe? Why ascribe mystical qualities to it?

Same goes for agnosticism. No rational person thinks that we can answer the fundamental question of whether there is a prime mover or some extra-universal power behind existence, so what's the point of giving ourselves a name specific to it? The only relevant question is whether or not you believe in God, not whether or not you think the question can be answered. It's like calling yourself a Lefthandtheist, because you thnk God is left-handed. Who gives a shit?
Click to expand...

Bolded for emphasis by me...

I like that a lot. I've never read/heard anyone say it quite like that. For someone like me, who was raised in religion, the preciseness of religious dogma becomes something you think you need to define everyone's beliefs. (whatever those beliefs may be, so labels become rather handy)

You know, I envy people sometimes, who were not brought up with any religion or any spiritual belief 'system.' They don't know how fortunate they are to not have had others dictate to them what to believe. Letting go of religion, agnosticism keeps me from having to answer the bolded question. Maybe, if I'm honest, I'm (still) too afraid to say...God doesn't exist, for there is no proof that he does. (and let the statement end there, despite that I honestly believe it to be true.)
 
rr6 said:
I recall looking into that some 12 years back, when some mentioned it to me. Isnt that a God for 5 kingdoms of biolgoicals, and water, fire wind, rock etc...?

It was interesting in no way have I ever stated/implied/inferred that each of these are a God or god.

God = Universe is simple concept that others here have a mental block to along with anything else I state.

So many adults become so closed minded to anything outside their knowns, religon, formal education etc..that the loose touch with rationally logical thought processes and can only belive a specialized narrow set of ideas that they have been conditioned to believe.

It is sad state of affairs for humanity, as fairly obvious to those who are actuall paying attention to global events.

Universe = God( ess ) and that is with capital U and capital G. :D

I'm pretty sure I've laid out various ways of definning God. Most of these others have little not nothing to offer, that in any way validates any of my comments as stated, so their ego allows them to reply with nothing of any valid signifcance for this forum, much less for our greater humanity. It is sad sad when this happens on a forum where most would think truth and integrity would be in high regards.

Panthisim sounds like it may of something to do with Peter Pan, or Panthers or wasn't there half-man half-goat named Pan. Pan American airlines. Panama canal....hey Pan-a-MA and MA has the birth canal from which Pan arrives on Earth, or something like that ha ha!

Contractions >IN< and resultant is the baby named Pan pops <OUT>.

Gravity( membrane/womb ) is >IN< and embraces and contains fermions( matter ) and other bosons( forces ).

Fermions and bosons = spirit-1 = Occupied Space = Universe = God = Physical/energy and is no brainer for those who do not have mental blocks to truth, rationality, logic and common sense.

'Boy that horse sure is spirited', meaning, that horsehas a lot of energy/physical. The only nonsense around here is those who offer us those words "nonsense" and "gibberish". Sad :( lack of moral integrity.

It is no wonder humanity and overall global condition is the shape it is in. But hey, were in great shape for the shape were in.

r6
Click to expand...

God 1 > pi/ soul 3 = Universe = flying cOw. This mean cOw flying is IN uNiverse. God 1 say "go forth" which mean cOw go forth IN uNiverse. This clear to English speaker with no mental block. You peoples with ME so far? Yes, ... discuss.
 
wegs said:
Bolded for emphasis by me...

I like that a lot. I've never read/heard anyone say it quite like that. For someone like me, who was raised in religion, the preciseness of religious dogma becomes something you think you need to define everyone's beliefs. (whatever those beliefs may be, so labels become rather handy)

You know, I envy people sometimes, who were not brought up with any religion or any spiritual belief 'system.' They don't know how fortunate they are to not have had others dictate to them what to believe. Letting go of religion, agnosticism keeps me from having to answer the bolded question. Maybe, if I'm honest, I'm (still) too afraid to say...God doesn't exist, for there is no proof that he does. (and let the statement end there, despite that I honestly believe it to be true.)
Click to expand...

Thanks. And yeah, I actually do know how unsettling it is to even think the thought, "God does not exist." I never believed, and God always seemed like an abstraction to me, and I wasn't raised in a religious household...but I did attend Sunday School for a bit, and me brothers and I had First Communions and Confirmations. Thankfully, thanks to my father's irreligious leanings being cemented after a mild fallout with his church over some details of his mother's funeral (of which I'm unsure, and never asked), the latter had fallen out of practice by the time it would have been my turn, but I did still grow up around semi-practicing Catholics and was raised by a mother who collected angels and thought Jesus was a wonderful man. When I finally began to question why I didn't really consider God a real thing (it always struck me as something like unicorns or Bigfoot--maybe real, but no one credible had ever seen one) I realized that I was an "unbeliever." At first, I stupidly called myself an agnostic, and said I was open to evidence (I probably called it "proof" back then) but eventually I had to own up: I was an atheist.

Even then, it took some intestinal fortitude to actually say "There is no God." Perhaps this is where our stories diverge, though perhaps not. Looking back at it now, I think I was afraid to say it because I felt like I was letting my parents down. Silly, yeah, but I think that was a big part of it. In any event, I'm over it now. You can't hide who you are, and there's certainly no use lying to yourself over it. That's why I started identifying as an atheist, and stopped hedging my bets.
 
Oh, thank you for your candor, Balerion. You do understand.

Quite an interesting path you've taken to finding your truth.

Edit to add: So, despite Sunday school, Communion and Confirmation, you never believed in God. It must feel good to have always been so...resolved. :eek:
 
I think Balerion's background is probably similar to many in this country (me included). I grew up in a religious family (mild church however...Methodist). I went to Sunday School every week and Church occasionally.

I never believed that stuff however. When it was time to take a class for Communion (13) I went to one class and didn't like words being put in my mouth (repeating things) and it felt cult like to me. I never went back.

I did have to continue going to Sunday School until I was about 15 and my mother finally let me quit going. I haven't been to church since.

I'll bet there is a large (maybe majority) of those calling themselves "religious" who don't believe and for whom it's just a cultural thing. I think some people have a harder time going along with the cultural aspects when they really aren't believers (me).
 
wegs said:
Oh, thank you for your candor, Balerion. You do understand.

Quite an interesting path you've taken to finding your truth.

Edit to add: So, despite Sunday school, Communion and Confirmation, you never believed in God. It must feel good to have always been so...resolved. :eek:
Click to expand...

Thanks for reading my rambling post. Though I wouldn't call it resolve. It's more like, I just never had any belief. I don't claim like some that there are those of us "above" faith, because in spite of never believing in God, I can't quite shake my fear of karmic justice if and when I do something bad, and I've always considered myself to be unlucky even though I can intellectually admit that luck isn't an attribute, simply a result. So I--like pretty much everybody else--am a slave to irrationality at times.

I imagine I never had faith because no one in my house ever told me God was real. He was never the boogeyman to me that he probably was to you--nor was he the caregiver or cosmic father-figure. I did believe in Santa and the Easter Bunny and all other loads of nonsense as a kid, however. Like those mythical figures, of course, I imagine if the notion of God's reality had been hammered into me, I would have eventually come to the same conclusion. I would have perhaps had a more interesting story to tell, though I cringe at the thought of suffering the same "You must hate God" tripe that angry theists fling at you converts.
 
wegs said:
He didn't believe in the idea of a ''personal God,'' but he had views that seemed to lean towards Pantheism, from some of the different sites I've run across, lately. I find Pantheism to be an interesting concept, but yet, it seems a bit 'out there.' :eek:
Click to expand...

I saw his views as more wondrous and in awe of the Universe around him. He certainly refuted the idea of a personal God.

" Albert Einstein's religious views have been studied extensively. He said he believed in the "pantheistic" God of Baruch Spinoza, but not in a personal god, a belief he criticized. He also called himself an agnostic, while disassociating himself from the label atheist, preferring, he said, "an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being."

As a religious position, some describe pantheism as the polar opposite of atheism.[5] From this standpoint, pantheism is the view that everything is part of an all-encompassing, immanent God.[1] All forms of reality may then be considered either modes of that Being, or identical with it.[7] Others hold that pantheism is a non-religious philosophical position. To them, pantheism is the view that the Universe and God are identical.[8]; in other words: that the Universe (with all its divine extensions, planets, suns, galaxies, thrones and creatures) is what people and religions call "God"

wiki:
 
Probably one of the most inspiring things about Einstein was his humility.

Did you know he was offered the first Presidency of Israel but graciously declined saying "Ëquations are forever, politics is for the present".
 
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