Environmental impact analysis: older vehicle v. new electric vehicle

[Sarkus]

Edit: If EVs get between 2 and 4 miles per kWh charge, that 40 miles is between 10 and 20 kWhs. The average US household uses 30 kWh daily (another number I can't quite wrap my head around--our home averages between 4 and 6 daily, so what the fuck are people doing to use 30 a day?), so that's increasing that electrical consumption by 33 to 66 percent. Last I checked, 60 percent of our electricity is still coming from fossil fuel sources.

Yep, mass adoption of EVs will increase demand on the electricity grid, and governments - if they're serious about moving to EVs - understand this and are putting things in place. The UK should be in a reasonable position: peak electricity demand was back in 2002, since when the peak demand has actually fallen c.16% - due to energy-saving initiatives (e.g. banning the old types of bulbs and cutting consumption of lighting in most homes by 90%+ at a stroke, etc). It's thought that if everyone swapped to EVs then peak demand in the country would only rise by c.10%, so we're relatively secure in that regard. The reason it's only 10% is because the vast majority of charging would be overnight, which is when demand is otherwise at its lowest.
We have also weaned ourselves off fossil fuels to a big extent, with only 24% of production currently from that (all natural gas, with zero coal). And we have significant renewables and nuclear production, so have capacity there for increase in the overnight production, and are building new wind-farms all the time.

 

[parmalee]

Yep, mass adoption of EVs will increase demand on the electricity grid, and governments - if they're serious about moving to EVs - understand this and are putting things in place. The UK should be in a reasonable position: peak electricity demand was back in 2002, since when the peak demand has actually fallen c.16% - due to energy-saving initiatives (e.g. banning the old types of bulbs and cutting consumption of lighting in most homes by 90%+ at a stroke, etc). It's thought that if everyone swapped to EVs then peak demand in the country would only rise by c.10%, so we're relatively secure in that regard. The reason it's only 10% is because the vast majority of charging would be overnight, which is when demand is otherwise at its lowest.
We have also weaned ourselves off fossil fuels to a big extent, with only 24% of production currently from that (all natural gas, with zero coal). And we have significant renewables and nuclear production, so have capacity there for increase in the overnight production, and are building new wind-farms all the time.

It seems that the UK is in a much better position all around, as compared with the US. You've also got vastly more functional mass transit and more sensible urban design (even if a lot of it is simply a byproduct of historical circumstance). Even in "the sticks", people can often get by with very little reliance upon automobiles.

I know that there are developments that somewhat resemble American suburbs, but to my understanding they are structured and zoned vastly differently than American counterparts, with reasonable access to markets, restaurants, taverns, etc. and very few "food deserts".

Even if one ignores the political situation, it's hard to imagine how the US can address these issues logistically.

 

[C C]

In the UK it's almost a given that you install a level 2 charger if you have an EV, and initially the manufacturers offered them for free as part of buying a new car. Those deals are now not as common, but a typical charger plus installation will probably set you back c.£1-1.5k. This is less than 5% of the cost of even the cheapest EVs in the UK, and should last from one car to the next, so it's really quite a small investment. You'd only need to upgrade if you wanted faster, but since they're designed to be overnight chargers, there's rarely a need for more than the basic 7.4Kwh.
You typically don't need any permits to install the things, and I'm fairly sure soon all new-builds will be required to have them already in place, at least those with off-street parking at the house. Obviously we're 230/240v already, so that helps with the cost.

The biggest struggle here will still be for those who have to park on the street, which is not an insignificant part of our population, or have no suitable electrics where they park. But I'm sure our new government will come up with something inventive for those.

Clarifies some of the anxiety difference between the US/Canada and the rest of the Anglophone world. While I knew 120V was an initial home obstacle, it didn't fully crystalize for me till recently the extent that the average North American really was resignedly clinging to Level 1. (Though the more affluent are doubtless easily adapting.)
_

 

[Sarkus]

It seems that the UK is in a much better position all around, as compared with the US. You've also got vastly more functional mass transit and more sensible urban design (even if a lot of it is simply a byproduct of historical circumstance). Even in "the sticks", people can often get by with very little reliance upon automobiles.

I know that there are developments that somewhat resemble American suburbs, but to my understanding they are structured and zoned vastly differently than American counterparts, with reasonable access to markets, restaurants, taverns, etc. and very few "food deserts".

Even if one ignores the political situation, it's hard to imagine how the US can address these issues logistically.

In this regard I think the UK benefits from a high population density. Yes, there are areas where you do ideally need an automobile, as the alternative is public transport which isn't always up to snuff in some of the more rural locales, but the vast majority of our population live only a few miles from a significantly-sized city.

My view of the US is that you have so much space that you spread out too much, making it too easy to have remote areas that then aren't serviced particularly well. Sure, your main cities are vast, but the rest is soooo spread out. The UK is about 40 times smaller than the US but a population of around a fifth. We're about the same size as Michigan but whereas Michigan's population is 10 million, we're about 67 million. It means we can service everyone more efficiently.

As to how the US resolve matters, I think you're so large, and currently so divided even on the threat and need, that I don't think you can. Each state may do what they feel is necessary, but that possibly exacerbates the divide.We again benefit from being a small and contained populace, and such where even what divides there are (e.g. north always thinking they don't get sufficient investment) are secondary to the overall direction of travel.

 

[Sarkus]

Clarifies some of the anxiety difference between the US/Canada and the rest of the Anglophone world. While I knew 120V was an initial home obstacle, it didn't fully crystalize for me till recently the extent that the average North American really was resignedly clinging to Level 1. (Though the more affluent are doubtless easily adapting.)
_

Clinging to level 1 rather than level 2 is a matter of educating. If you're buying an EV there is no reason not to get a level 2 charger. As said, at maybe 5% of the cost of the car, it's nonsense to not invest and then complain that you can only get 30 miles from an overnight charge. It would be like buying an expensive bed frame and then complaining because the burlap sacks don't give you a good night's rest, when you haven't bothered to invest in a mattress!

 

[C C]

Clinging to level 1 rather than level 2 is a matter of educating. If you're buying an EV there is no reason not to get a level 2 charger. As said, at maybe 5% of the cost of the car, it's nonsense to not invest and then complain that you can only get 30 miles from an overnight charge. It would be like buying an expensive bed frame and then complaining because the burlap sacks don't give you a good night's rest, when you haven't bothered to invest in a mattress!

Since we're homeowners, a major part of my failure to realize the mass clinging going on sooner was the bias of forgetting about renters. Their landlords are usually lagging dinosaurs, and many renters tend to be migratory early on unless they've got a job or commitment that keeps them placed for more than a couple of years. (And thereby more of a nuisance to the property owners in terms of complaining about upgrades.)

• But if you're among the 36 percent of people in the U.S. who live in multi-unit dwellings such as apartments or condominiums (according to the latest U.S. census) you have limited options. [...] You can convince your landlord to invest in electrical upgrades by drawing attention to the benefits of community charging:
  
  
  • Competitive edge. Apartments with EV charging will attract tenants with EVs and those who care about the environment.
  • Additional revenue. Landlords can justify a rent hike or bill tenants a monthly fee for using the charging equipment.
  • Tenant retention. Offering EV charging gives tenants an additional reason to stay.
  
  Apartment EV charging is still in its early stages, with fewer than 5% of rental properties offering this perk. However, a study found that 27% of tenants are interested in EV charging.
  
  The upfront cost is a common barrier to adoption. A possible solution is to help your landlord navigate incentives and work together to agree on a billing model that would help cover the installation costs and increased energy demand.
  
  Space can also be a constraint. For properties with limited parking or insufficient clearance, extending the parking infrastructure might be a necessity.
  
  The key is collaboration. There needs to be a dialogue between renters and property owners to understand interests and expectations better.
  
  [...] range up to $1,800, not including any additional complexities, wiring requirements, or commercial installation needs. But while a more simple home installation may fall within this price, installing an EV charging in a multifamily community can be significantly more complex and expensive. Keep in mind that there will likely be additional costs to consider, such as parking space modifications, signage, or even building an assigned garage.
  
  Installing an EV charger is a custom process that will vary in complexity and cost for each project—there is generally not a standard price for the service as it requires a thorough assessment of the existing electrical infrastructure, building out the EV charging system to meet the intended user needs, and taking the property and building layout into consideration.
  
  Electrical upgrades might also be necessary. A qualified electrician can perform a load calculation for the rental property and determine whether a new panel is needed to support EV charging and future electrification projects and can work with you to explore the different options that would meet your building and charging needs.

 

[TheVat]

Tangential to this thread perhaps, but not to the underlying issue: the bolded portion is "problematic". Most non-Americans probably find this number mind-boggling. I'm an American (though I've spent a fair portion of my life outside of the US) and I can't even wrap my head around this number. I mean, WTF?! That's nearly 40 miles a day!

My mind boggles, as well. If I somehow had to drive that far daily, I would likely be assembling a pitchfork-wielding mob and kicking in the mayor's door to demand better public transit. But I seem to be off the bell curve with walking and biking, usually put no more than 2500 K on the odometer annually. And yes, the outliers like me cannot evangelize their lifestyle choices to fellow Americans without coming across as radical Greens who possibly harbor a death wish venturing into traffic on bikes or shoe leather. Not sure what sort of per gallon (and allied per kWh) price it would take to really pry the middle class from their car seats and onto rails or bikes. Something apocalyptic I'd imagine.

 

[billvon]

• But if you're among the 36 percent of people in the U.S. who live in multi-unit dwellings such as apartments or condominiums (according to the latest U.S. census) you have limited options. [...] You can convince your landlord to invest in electrical upgrades by drawing attention to the benefits of community charging:

It should be noted that in California there is a law that the landlord must allow you to install an EV charger if you request it. (You pay for it of course.)