Does God care about atheists

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

There are two ways of viewing that.

1 The atheist does not sense that there is a God, but that does not necessarily mean that there is no God. So the atheist is so, because he sees no evidence of God (not that they would know what constitutes evidence), and is by default, atheist. A thoughtful approach.

2 There IS no God, as far as the atheist is aware, despite their thoughtfulness. So the atheist is atheist, whether or not the atheist thinks he/she is. This one goes across the board, there is no need for explanation, or for anyone to know that. It is a blunt fact.

jan.

^^^
No. It is blunt nonsense babbling.

<>

 

[Jan Ardena]

Despite many theists' seeming inability to understand it, when they make a claim, it is their responsibility to support it.

What claim is that?

jan.

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

What claim is that?

jan.

^^^
Any claim.

<>

 

[Jan Ardena]

^^^
No. It is blunt nonsense babbling.

<>

You know I'm correct. There IS no God, for any atheist, ever. Blunt Fact.
When an atheist comes to their senses, and accept God, they never say it was due to evidence (unless they are trying to explain it to atheists). Most ex-atheists will tell you in so many words, that they had a realisation, that they surrendered their arrogance, and came to the platform of understanding, due to the clarity of their mind.

jan.

 

[Jan Ardena]

^^^
Any claim.

<>

Are you scared to discuss, why you keep your answers as short as you possibly can?

jan.

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

You know I'm correct. There IS no God, for any atheist, ever. Blunt Fact.
When an atheist comes to their senses, and accept God, they never say it was due to evidence (unless they are trying to explain it to atheists). Most ex-atheists will tell you in so many words, that they had a realisation, that they surrendered their arrogance, and came to the platform of understanding, due to the clarity of their mind.

jan.

You know you are pretending.

<>

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

Are you scared to discuss, why you keep your answers as short as you possibly can?

jan.

^^^
Oh grow up.

<>

 

[Jan Ardena]

^^^
Oh grow up.

<>

How is that childish?
I'm asking you a simple question.
Why don't you answer it?

jan.

 

[Jan Ardena]

You know you are pretending.

<>

Do I?
Is that the best response you could muster?
Why are you avoiding a discussion with me?

jan.

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

Do I?
Is that the best response you could muster?
Why are you avoiding a discussion with me?

jan.

^^^
I am not avoiding anything. I have at least as much right to say & not say what I do & how I do as you have to babble incoherently.

<>

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

As you claim that the soul is a man-made concept, I assume, based on your boast, that you have some kind of facts to back up the claim.

Boast?
That is a strange description of an observation of reality.
If you wish to establish nonsense as reality it is indeed you who need put facts on the table.
No facts, no soul, no God, no boasting ... the table is bare.

Try and understand the concept itself, then we'll tackle how and why it is mentioned in the bible.

I have tried to read all I can find Jan. I have the facts sufficient to discuss the matter so please present your views.

Why is Christianity particularly important?

You pushed my question aside so what else would I conclude.
You made the call.

There is no ''history'', it is what it is.

The concept has a history I have read about it...why say there is no history when clearly there is...why deny there is a history to the concept of a soul?

It's not a game,

It is a game and without facts we can call the game lets pretend...I simply say I dont believe there is a soul but so you can explain how the soul features in your world view I will ptetend the soul exists... so go ahead I am waiting.

If it's due to lack of evidence, please explain what you would regard as suitable evidence.

If you give me something I will look at it.
You wont answer my questions which you think are stupid I gather but perhaps if you answered them I would get something of an idea.
Why do you think my earlier questions are not worth addressing.
I need those sorts of answers to form a view.

Is that the reason why you do good?

Yes at some level.
Why would I do things that make me feel bad?

If yes, then if a rapist feels good raping women, why isn't he a good person?

I dont know why you could ask such a question but seeing you dont seem to be able to think things through I will try and give you a simple answer.
He is bad because he is being cruel and nasty by forcing his desire on someone presumably by force.

Why does the soul have no basis

Its the way things are Jan as I have said many times ... just because you can make something up that does not mean it must exist in reality.
Usually the fact that you have made something up is a good indication that wont exist in reality.
When someone makes something up and then believes that something exists in reality it is a good indiction that they are delussional.
We can invent things but again before they become reality we must take the thought and turn it into something real that another person can see and touch the invention you thought about.
The problem must be clear to you...just because you invent a God or a soul that does not mean either exist in reality and if they dont exist in reality they will never be more than thoughts...
If you choose to believe these thoughts you need to understand your belief irrespective of how strong they are, or how much you wish them to be real, does not have any bearing on reality.
Fairy tales are inventions of the mind but they are not reality...thinking about stuff does not cause it to be created ... say you invent a time machine , it may exist in your imagination but until you build one and travel in time it does not exist.

And it does not matter if humans have imagined God from the start of time that will not make God real.

Alex

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

Why not set a better example for theists & do not give them cause to say we have irrational beliefs.

We have many much better arguments for theists than being like them & claiming to know things we cannot know.

I do not reject your approach generally but my approach will not change.
I do not need to show them a better approach and frankly they would not notice.
Jan had to ask me if a rapist feels good about his evil deeds why would he not be a good person.
Do you think being subtle can work with someone who has such difficulty in looking at a proposition rationaly.

If someone says something exists I am not going to say well yes I will be polite and say how could I know that is not correct...no I am going to call it for what it is ... made up unsupported nonsense.
I know I could do better but why should I bother really...
Sometimes you just have to stand up to these folk and demand they get real.
Alex

 

[kx000]

Well you would think that if God created us we would be given more to resist oppression...take rape with a knife at your throat what has God given the victim...zip.

So your observation points to no God wouldnt you think.

I notice my words seem lost on you.

Do you skip everything that encourages you to face reality.
Because it sure seems that way.
Have you any better solution on how to prevent suffering?
Because it certainly seems there is no God who will act.

Alex

Then again he does ask for our belief.

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

Then again he does ask for our belief.

Does he now?
He has not asked me but how would something that does not exist ask anything.
Its in your imagination.
Alex

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

Sorry I should have asked do you think it could be your imagination rather than asserting it is so.
Alex

 

[Jan Ardena]

Boast?
That is a strange description of an observation of reality.

Stranger than boasting you only deal with the facts, when you don't?

No facts, no soul, no God, no boasting ... the table is bare.

You've just described atheism.

I have tried to read all I can find Jan. I have the facts sufficient to discuss the matter so please present your views.

Views are already being discussed.

You pushed my question aside so what else would I conclude.

Why did you conclude it?

The concept has a history I have read about it...why say there is no history when clearly there is...why deny there is a history to the concept of a soul?

I'm not in denial, but if you believe that it is a history, please present at least at one or two facts, so I can go look see for myself.

It is a game and without facts we can call the game lets pretend...I simply say I dont believe there is a soul but so you can explain how the soul features in your world view I will ptetend the

Is it a fact that we refer to our bodies as items we own. But we refer to ourselves as "I am"? Are you essentially the same person you always were, despite the vast changes of the body? Would someone who knew you when you was a teenager, still recognise you at 50?

How can you not believe there is an aspect that stays the same (namely the "I"), and an aspect of of you that is in constant flux, and is owned, initially, by the "I"?

He is bad because he is being cruel and nasty by forcing his desire on someone presumably by force.

From your perspective, there is only matter. We see other creatures rape, kill, torture, yet we don't regard them as cruel, or evil. We tend to accept, even respect, and admire their particular nature. So why do you think that a human who rapes, and forces their own desires on other humans, as morally different from other creatures?

Its the way things are Jan as I have said many times ... just because you can make something up that does not mean it must exist in reality.

You assumed it was made up before you started reading about it. You are atheist. All your atheism was in place before you realised you were atheist. This is good evidence.

And it does not matter if humans have imagined God from the start of time that will not make God real.

And here we have it the "pièce de résistance". This is atheism.

Jan.

 

[Beer w/Straw]

At least it's a starting point.
We need have a good comprehension of the context of your enquiries.
Just say at least what you think about the blog, and why. Discussion starter right there if you want.

I didn't read the blog -a blog doesn't discuss back.

Or alternatively, you make a start. Tell my why you think people would go to a hell for eternity, simply for not believing in what they regard as God.

I don't know if there is a Hell or God -that's why I asked you.

I think we need to focus our discussion on God, and how relate to God. If we can get passed that point, then we will be in a better position.

Well, how do you relate to God?

I'm guessing you've never really looked into this subject matter. I'm guessing you are basing your fears off mainstream religions.

No, I haven't looked too much into the matter. What is "mainstream religion"?

Am I correct?

I don't know.

 

[Jan Ardena]

I didn't read the blog -a blog doesn't discuss back.

Is that meant to be funny?

I don't know if there is a Hell or God -that's why I asked you.

I'm a theist. Draw from that what you will.
Do you think there is a God?

Well, how do you relate to God?

Common sense, intelligence, scripture, experience, thought, meditation, art, to name but a few ways.

No, I haven't looked too much into the matter. What is "mainstream religion"?

Religious doctrines that share by most people.

Jan.

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

Stranger than boasting you only deal with the facts, when you don't?

Perhaps you need to illustrate where I have not required facts if you wish to proceed on that basis.

You've just described atheism.

Seem you are mistaken it is you who bring no facts to the table but we already know that and rather than work with facts you must allude to me somehow boasting... It is hard to keep up with your made up stories.

Why did you conclude it?

Why wont you answer my initial questions and continually avoid presenting a description of a soul and the estimated of the soul population.u
Where they hang out is something I would like to know... If you know about souls can you answer my questions.

I'm not in denial, but if you believe that it is a history, please present at least at one or two facts, so I can go look see for myself.

Try a search.. Enter history of the soul.

Is it a fact that we refer to our bodies as items we own.

It may be fact you do such but few do.
Carry over from church approved slavery I expect... But body and ownership of a body sounds weird.

Would someone who knew you when you was a teenager, still recognise you at 50?

Yes I got stuck with the one body and wouldnt you know it... No soul.

How can you not believe there is an aspect that stays the same (namely the "I"), and an aspect of of you that is in constant flux, and is owned, initially, by the "I"

Just as easy as you take an opposite positition. Believe what you will but without more than belief in body ownership you really have nothing.

We see other creatures rape, kill, torture, yet we don't regard them as cruel, or evil. We tend to accept, even respect, and admire their particular nature.

Who does? Not me I dont get a kick out anything along lines you suggest...

So why do you think that a human who rapes, and forces their own desires on other humans, as morally different from other creatures?

Because they are human living in a society somewhat different to the animal world.

You assumed it was made up before you started reading about it.

I tend to assume something is made up when folk fail to offer proof and avoid matters that call for facts.

And here we have it the "pièce de résistance". This is atheism.

Atheism the only place for thinking people determined to reject ancient superstition to be.
Nice chat but nothing about souls.... Evasive when asked for facts.. Beware.
Alex

 

[Beer w/Straw]

Bold mine.

Common sense, intelligence, scripture, experience, thought, meditation, art, to name but a few ways.

Common sense? Doesn't seem like you can exactly put your finger on it. Sounds like when you say God "is" you could just as easily say you feel God.

This may sound a bit coarse, but whatever floats your boat.