Does Chaos Theory prove a Mathematically Ordered Universe

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience' started by Write4U, Aug 7, 2020.

  1. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    20,074
    Are you proposing that everything happens chaotically? Where then did we discover mathematical functions?

    What in your mind, constitutes ordering guiding equations? The universal algorithms? The axioms on which all science is founded. Free Will?

    For a change, instead of constantly calling me wrong, why don't you offer an explanation of how things work.
    Just repeating "physical interactions" is wholly inadequate to explain the regularities that stare us in the face on a daily basis. There is an underlying hierarchy of universal orderings.

    IMO those natural ordering guides are mathematical in essence. And I am not alone in this.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2021
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  3. river

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    First Highlight

    No .

    To the second highlight

    True

    But with limitations . Without limitations nothing physical could ever exist .
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2021
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  5. river

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    Without limitations , the Periodic Table would not exist .
     
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  7. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    You have this backwards. It is impossible to change the physical dynamics. That is why they behave as they do and are subject to the way he universe (reality) is self-ordering.
     
  8. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Exactly, and those limitations are mathematical permissions and/or restrictions in an otherwise physically permittive condition.

    "c" seems to be one of those mathematically measurable limitations.
     
  9. river

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    Highlighted

    Nonsense , Again .
     
  10. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    OK, your turn. What causes matter to self-organize in regular patterns?
     
  11. river

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    The Nature(s) of this matter . Properties ; Physical Properties . From the micro to the macro .
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2021
  12. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    And those properties react to each other how?
    Wait, I know your answer:...."physical" action and reaction.

    But that does not explain the "how". That's the "hard question" of universal processes.

    "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction." Newton's Third Law of Motion , a mathematical equation, expressed in measurable values. That's how!
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2021
  13. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    This may be of interest. This is what I have been so imperfectly trying to say.

     
  14. river

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    First highlight

    Based on their atomic properties , and quantum properties . Hence Movement . There is no stillness

    The how is through movement .

    Newton's Law is based on the physical . ( what were these measurable values based on , the physical ) . And the consequential movement . Because of atomic and quantum properties . In all forms of these properties .
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2021
  15. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    20,074
  16. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Just ran across this lecture on "patterns".

    I believe it fits nicely in this thread;
     
  17. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    when i first started reading on chaos theory it was associated with fringe science
    it was fascinating to read how mathematicians and physicists were pushing hard into unknown territory to seek out new fields & boundary's.


    what struck me was how chaos theory seemed to align with the current perception of the human personality
    where mental illness and random chance and occurrence seemed to suggest possibly vastly more complex cause & effect of basic common logic, except on a highly complex level.

    and so head first into psychoanalysis i studied leaning on Freud & jung digging in hard to developmental psychology and the construct of the human mind.

    given what i uncovered, i firmly believe chaos theory is not only valid in its abstract forum but is a law given the nature of what it defines as reasonable science.

    we have only just mapped the human genome
    we can see cloning and stem cell research sitting there like a new childs bicycle wrapped up waiting to be opened.

    we can see organ growth in brainless clone like laboratory frame works
    sitting there waiting

    but climate change and end of oil ...
     
  18. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    7,447
    imagine having your own brainless clone growing you another heart and organs ready for a total organ replacement at age 60

    how long would you live for ?
    250 years old ?

    RNA DNA therapy would be common
    stem cell stim packs like immune booster vaccines

    its all just sitting there waiting for humans to be more human

    but look at all the americium cave man like moral sheople
    demanding that a heart is more important than a brain

    but do they deny heart transplants ?
    i doubt it
    cult members ! standing in the way of science & modern society
     
  19. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    20,074
    The religious analogy of creation.

    Chaos = the Father
    Order = the Son
    Mathematics = the Spirit
     
  20. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    20,074
    Yes, "relational values".
    Better described as "dynamical environment" ?
    "Measurable values" can be represented with symbolic mathematics, ergo the interactive process is controlled by a generic universal mathematical guiding principle.
    Nicely summation of the dynamics of pysical interaction, but it does not address the guiding "logic" behind the interaction of physical properties. Each relational physical property has a measurable value.

    Physical property
    The "observables" (measurements) reveal an "ordering force" behind all physical interactions based on the values of the physical properties in a dynamic environment.

    This functional guiding principle is of a generic mathematical nature and language that science has quantified and codified with human symbolic mathematics, allowing for extraordinary precision in the analysis of relationally interactive processes in a constantly changing dynamic environment.
     
  21. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    20,074
    Rather than starting a new thread, I believe this meshes nicely with the general thrust of the OP title.

    From Tegmark's "The Mathematical Universe" (MUH)

    II. THE MATHEMATICAL UNIVERSE HYPOTHESIS

    A. The External Reality Hypothesis
    B. Reducing the baggage allowance
    C. Implications for a Mathematical Universe
    D. Description versus equivalence
    more..... https://archive.org/details/arxiv-0704.0646/page/n2/mode/1up

    I believe this accurately describes what I mean by the term "generic universal mathematics".
    Moreover. Tegmark explains the difference between the abstract concept of mathematics and the human codified and symbolized " descriptive language.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2023
  22. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Write4U:

    Posts on your Tegmark worship are off-topic for this thread. You are engaging in thread necromancy, too.

    Please stop.
     
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  23. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    20,074
    If you don't understand or like Tegmark, does that give you the right to restrict my quoting his hypothesis of a Mathematical Universe (MUH) in my original thread about a possible Mathematically ordered (ordering) Universe?
    I was not discussing Chaos per se, in case you missed that point.

    I started this thread by citing the established science of Chaos Theory as a supporting basis for the hypothesis that the Universal patterns are of a mathematical essence? Tegmark is just another spoke in the wheel.
    Yes, because you are always killing my threads without having a clue as to where I am going with it or how I am going about it.

    I'll decide when a thread of mine is dead.

    If you want to facilitate science discussions instead of exercising dictatorial topic censorship, why don't you move it to a more appropriate sub-forum? IMO that would be a much wiser application of your moderator powers.
    Right now you are just being a spoil sport. It's tiresome.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2023

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