Cultural appropriation

[Tiassa]

"yessim massar" ?
the compliant appeasing chinese(profile label asian) person who has no legal rights(in western society or working in the old hong kong etc... colonialism etc...) and has barely come out of common slavery engaging with upper class and mild class western "masters".
yes boss no boss anything you say boss...

It's an awkward, loud-ish raise-the-roof bit.

Then again, I'm not even paying close enough attention; they used two actresses this time. But the advert title is "Freak Out".

(I wonder if they're all two actors. I thought they had been murphying—or maybe perrying, for the current generation—actors to talk to themselves.)

 

[RainbowSingularity]

It's an awkward, loud-ish raise-the-roof bit.

Then again, I'm not even paying close enough attention; they used two actresses this time. But the advert title is "Freak Out".

(I wonder if they're all two actors. I thought they had been murphying—or maybe perrying, for the current generation—actors to talk to themselves.)

mansplain-genuflect-ego-centrism ?
it would certainly be a correct idiosyncratic 'ism' to frame a model of profile-self-association.
it allows them to hide biggotry as a self vexing metaphor of liberal dissociation.

with leathery skin he looked within and found nothing but the himself
sell sell sell

 

[iceaura]

This is exactly what I object to: the distorting of the term "appropriate" to mean "appropriate-in-a-disrespectful-or-otherwise-"bad"-way (-as-determined-by-suitably-right-on-people)".

Apologies, I was not clear.

Here is my intended emphasis, bolded:

if, say, the "war" bonnet Sitting Bull was granted by the consensus of the people who knew him best was no longer able to serve as a signifier of the kind of esteem and respect he earned over a lifetime of displayed character and ability

the long discussion about whether or not that was "appropriation" seems to have been generally settled by the overt respect and public acknowledgment those young men displayed for the original, and the acceptance of their borrowing by blues musicians of consensus high status - who were not supplanted or dismissed or disrespected in consequence

The term "appropriate" does carry the connotation of transfer or removal or usurption - if something has been appropriated, it's original location or ownership or source no longer has it, at least temporarily. Therein lies the rub. https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/appropriate

In the case of cultural heritage, it may very well be possible to do that in a good, or at least neutral, way. Leprechauns, Zeus, vampires, zombies, etc. But that will most often require that the culture comprising that heritage have moved on, so to speak - be essentially, at least in that respect, no longer living. Appropriation of living culture will be bad, almost certainly.

So I believe your objection is not to regarding cultural appropriation as normally and presumptively bad or disrespectful, but to the commonly ill-motivated misuse of the word - to the use of it for cultural influences and borrowings that leave the original intact and in possession, adoptions and alterations with permission of the original owners, situations in which the borrowers merely gained money or status not gained by the still-extant originals (especially via invoking those originals), situations in which the still-extant originators were merely uncredited by the borrowers, etc.

 

[exchemist]

Apologies, I was not clear.

Here is my intended emphasis, bolded:


The term "appropriate" does carry the connotation of transfer or removal or usurption - if something has been appropriated, it's original location or ownership or source no longer has it, at least temporarily. Therein lies the rub. https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/appropriate

In the case of cultural heritage, it may very well be possible to do that in a good, or at least neutral, way. Leprechauns, Zeus, vampires, zombies, etc. But that will most often require that the culture comprising that heritage have moved on, so to speak - be essentially, at least in that respect, no longer living. Appropriation of living culture will be bad, almost certainly.

So I believe your objection is not to regarding cultural appropriation as normally and presumptively bad or disrespectful, but to the common and ill-motivated misuse of the word - to use it for cultural influences and borrowings that leave the original intact and in possession, adoptions and alterations with permission of the original owners, situations in which the borrowers gained money or status denied the originals, etc.

OK I think we've discussed this quite thoroughly now.

This term is not, and will not be, part of my personal lexicon.

 

[birch]

this makes sense as they are not going to necessarily keep up or be exactly in step with western trends. they are going to do what they want to do. there is practical wisdom in what is comfortable, affordable and functional. i'm not brand conscious myself except for a couple items. if i like or dislike something, it doesn't have to do with the brand. i remember looking at a 1200 dollar prada purse price tag and thinking how i did not like it regardless of the brand.

 

[DaveC426913]

i'm not brand conscious myself except for a couple items.

So, yes then, you are brand conscious.

(Is that like saying 'I'm not racist, except for certain races.'?)

 

[birch]

So, yes then, you are brand conscious.

(Is that like saying 'I'm not racist, except for certain races.'?)

not really because the only reason i keep going back to some brands is because it's affordable or on sale etc while still being decent quality. it's not blind loyalty, just i've noticed with some purchases like cell phones, i gravitate toward a certain brand but not just because it's that brand. i would switch if there was another the same or similar in a different location. just like certain people buy only a certain brand of rice. i don't as other considerations factor in. brand conscious means only buying a certain brand just because it's that brand and what it represents. the actual product is less important.

for instance, a person doesn't pay a hundred bucks for a gucci t-shirt that says gucci on the front because it's just a t-shirt, it's because it's gucci. that's soley brand conscious just as some people only wear nikes even if there are other good sneaker brands etc.

 

[DaveC426913]

not really because the only reason i keep going back to some brands is because it's affordable or on sale etc while still being decent quality. it's not blind loyalty, just i've noticed with some purchases like cell phones, i gravitate toward a certain brand but not just because it's that brand. i would switch if there was another the same or similar in a different location. just like certain people buy only a certain brand of rice. i don't as other considerations factor in. brand conscious means only buying a certain brand just because it's that brand and what it represents. the actual product is less important.

for instance, a person doesn't pay a hundred bucks for a gucci t-shirt that says gucci on the front because it's just a t-shirt, it's because it's gucci. that's soley brand conscious just as some people only wear nikes even if there are other good sneaker brands etc.

You are rationalizing. You are underplaying your own reasons for brand-awareness, yet you don't give the same credit to strangers that you give to yourself - you overplay their reasons for brand-awareness as if theirs are shallow and yours are not.

Nobody likes to think they're the middle of the Bell curve. Yet, that is where the vast majority of people are.

And I think this is a good example of your issue with racism too. You are rationalizing that your experience of racism is somehow more special than the experiences of others.



My favorite XKCD comic of all time:

The one thing everyone has in common - is thinking they're the only one who is special.

 

[birch]

You are rationalizing. You are underplaying your own reasons for brand-awareness, yet you don't give the same credit to strangers that you give to yourself - you overplay their reasons for brand-awareness as if theirs are shallow and yours are not.

Nobody likes to think they're the middle of the Bell curve. Yet, that is where the vast majority of people are.

And I think this is a good example of your issue with racism too. You are rationalizing that your experience of racism is somehow more special than the experiences of others.

The one thing everyone has in common - is thinking they're the only one who is special.

No. that is not it. your lack of awareness that there is a difference is where you percieve incorrectly. it's not just 'my' experiences because there are other asians who have noted a cultural theme of asians being more ridiculed and mocked especially racially. i don't think that is 'special' to be singled out due to your race, that's just fuked up. you are reading into it as 'special' to be a target of racism, which is ridiculous. the fact you don't notice it if you have lived predominantly in western culture but especially america, makes you suspect in my book because you don't even have to be asian to notice such things. how about that?!

what you don't like is the honesty as if it's an affront to others racial experiences because asians are more singled out. wtf is that logic? granted, hispanics and middle-easterners have gotten some more heat lately from white nationalists (who hate everyone non-white) but that easily blows over and will be back to normal.

you keep saying it's me but it's not just me, others have noticed it as well. obviously people who are more socially aware than you. they are making a joke about it, but they know what's up:

just as your ridiculous misunderstanding of brand awareness. the explanation was pretty common sense that it's not about the brand but that certain brands show up regularly due to other considerations such as a brand being on sale more often than another. that's' not brand awareness in the way it's usually understood as it implies loyalty.

no, i don't assume theirs is shallow and mine is not. that's your assumption because i don't think there is anything wrong with someone liking/preferring a certain brand. my jist is that i don't have brand awareness or loyalty because i compare price with similar or exact specs and the 'brand' does not sway my decision.

what makes you assume that i care if i'm in the middle of a bell curve or not? some things i am and some things i'm not. what makes you think i care? you think i do.

you are ridiculous enough to assume that it's more flattering to admit you are not brand conscious. you assume it's some type of brag. i was just pointing out the pros of not being brand conscious such as affordability and flexibility. just like people who say i only drive toyotas or only buy american cars or made in america etc. obviously you can't be that flexible or practical at all times if you just shop based on a brand.

 

[DaveC426913]

it's not just 'my' experiences because there are other asians who have noted a cultural theme of asians being more ridiculed and mocked especially racially.

As blacks have noted that they are the subject of racism more than any other culture.

...especially america, makes you suspect in my book...

Good God. How racist of you. I am not American.

you keep saying it's me but it's not just me, others have noticed it as well. obviously people who are more socially aware than you. they are making a joke about it, but they know what's up:

Would you like a few zillion pages of every other group who feel they are targeted? Blacks? Jews? Hispanics?

 

[DaveC426913]

BTW, according to 85,000 people from 61 countries, Philippines is the 6th most racist country in the world (defined as 'not wanting neighbors of another race').

America doesn't even make the list. In fact, there's only a single country (Ecuador) in the top 25 from the entire Western hemisphere.

Philippines ranks 6th in world:
https://businesstech.co.za/news/lifestyle/116644/the-most-racist-countries-in-the-world/

Philippines ranks 6th in world:
https://www.brokenjawtravel.com/10-most-racist-countries-ranked

Philippines has 20%-30% positive versus N. America's 0-5% positive:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...untries/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.16f1e3e4315c

 

[billvon]

No. that is not it. your lack of awareness that there is a difference is where you percieve incorrectly. it's not just 'my' experiences because there are other asians who have noted a cultural theme of asians being more ridiculed and mocked especially racially.

Of course. And Muslims notice being ridiculed and mocked especially due to their religion. And blacks notice being ridiculed and mocked especially due to their race. And whites claim that they are being ridiculed and mocked because of reverse racism. And Indians feel like they are being ridiculed and mocked because of their race. Everyone thinks their experience proves the rule.

 

[birch]

Asians are the most discriminated minority group in America. If you're Asian in America there is everything wrong with you. you are nothing but an alien from space. Blacks and Whites are equally racist and disrespectful

some people are just not going to get it or acknowledge it. i wonder why you never, almost never ever, hear of asians being racist towards other minorities or attacking them? nobody gives a shit what you think of someone or a group, i'm talking about actions. it's just a fact that asians are not as much the racist perpetrators as other minorities as well as whites are towards asians. asians are the most bullied group in the west, including racially because they are seen as weaker and foreign. period.

i've seen/witnessed it repeatedly in society as a theme as well as noted how asians are singled out most often for racial stereotypes (didn't say there are none that exist of others but that asians are most denigrated and mocked). no one wants to admit it and i get that. that doesn't mean it's not true.

 

[birch]

And Muslims notice being ridiculed and mocked especially due to their religion. And blacks notice being ridiculed and mocked especially due to their race. And whites claim that they are being ridiculed and mocked because of reverse racism. And Indians feel like they are being ridiculed and mocked because of their race. Everyone thinks their experience proves the rule.

i guess naivety plagues intellectuals too. you overestimate the general public. nobody gives a shit nor do they make fine distinctions nor that conscientious to distinguish between these people except for intellectuals and therefore base their bigotry on. most people which are the majority pick people out generally based on who seems most different than the rest.

that would be asians because whites, blacks and hispanics are for mainstream purposes considered more american as well as indians/middle-eastern/hispanic are ambiguous in appearance as well as more caucasoid so, again, are not percieved as different.

your problem with accurate assessment of this type of subject is not understanding how others perceive or judge, which may not be your criteria or your rational assumption.

in other words, using american lingo, you ain't down to know what is going on. trust me. my overall evaluation in this particular area and understanding a pulse of a society is more accurate than yours.

whites and african-americans are the most accepted, hispanics next and then everyone else ambiguous in appearance that could be from multiple nationalities or backgrounds. the only snag recently has been due to more americans becoming more resentful of border crossers due to the downturn of economy which affects them and as far as islam/muslim due to terrorism on western shores. but despite these issues, asians who are more 'oriental' in appearance have always been most the target of racism simply due to being asian because they are more different in appearance, so therefore have the foreign stigma.

 

[exchemist]

BTW, according to 85,000 people from 61 countries, Philippines is the 6th most racist country in the world (defined as 'not wanting neighbors of another race').

America doesn't even make the list. In fact, there's only a single country (Ecuador) in the top 25 from the entire Western hemisphere.

Philippines ranks 6th in world:
https://businesstech.co.za/news/lifestyle/116644/the-most-racist-countries-in-the-world/

Philippines ranks 6th in world:
https://www.brokenjawtravel.com/10-most-racist-countries-ranked

Philippines has 20%-30% positive versus N. America's 0-5% positive:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...untries/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.16f1e3e4315c

I'd like to know where China would sit on that ranking. They used to have quite a culture of despising "foreign devils". Though it may have changed, now that the country is so much opened up to outsiders.

 

[DaveC426913]

i wonder why you never, almost never ever, hear of asians being racist towards other minorities or attacking them?

Demonstrably false. See post 11.

That's real data, not a subjective opinion of one person.

 

[DaveC426913]

I'd like to know where China would sit on that ranking. They used to have quite a culture of despising "foreign devils". Though it may have changed, now that the country is so much opened up to outsiders.

I was going to mention that, but didn't have sufficient facts to back it up. Then again, since birch doesn't feel that facts are necessary...

Chinese have long been known to be very racist. and not to Caucasians, Blacks, Muslims or Hispanics, but to other Asians. In fact, they are known to be extremely xenophobic of other Chinese cultures.

 

[birch]

I realize this is one of your older video posts, but I came across it as I was looking at knife reviews. I've had a background somewhat akin to the one you describe... My family moved from Chicago when I was 13 or 14 and settled the family in a very rural part of South Carolina... at that time I could count the number of Asians in that community on one hand... racial epitaphs, slurs, and the like were a daily occurrence, and there were many occasions where I'd be walking in some department store and I'd be approached by some individual and threatened for no other reason then my race... death threats were common... this of course colored my perception of "White America" and even now, I find an instinctual distrust in those outside my race... something which prior to my move to the deep south, was never an issue... Anyway, great videos.. keep'em coming.

the stats also tell part of the story:

2010 u.s. census data per this clip:

311 million population:
white 72 %
hispanic 17 %
black 13 %
asian 5%

and of this less than 5 percent asian demographic: 15 million

chinese 24 %
filipino 21%
indians 19 %
vietnamese 11%
koreans 10%
japanese 8%

for example, just being korean in u.s., you are less than 0.4 percent of the population.

less representation of your demographic and smaller in number usually means more prejudice and racism against that group.

 

[billvon]

you overestimate the general public. nobody gives a shit nor do they make fine distinctions nor that conscientious to distinguish between these people except for intellectuals and therefore base their bigotry on. most people which are the majority pick people out generally based on who seems most different than the rest.

Yep. And usually that's blacks. They look different.

that would be asians because whites, blacks and hispanics are for mainstream purposes considered more american as well as indians/middle-eastern/hispanic are ambiguous in appearance as well as more caucasoid so, again, are not percieved as different.

Not in the real world. Perhaps in your imagination.

my overall evaluation in this particular area and understanding a pulse of a society is more accurate than yours.

My overall evaluation is you have no idea what you are talking about, and are imposing your personal feelings onto society. Someone was mean to you, therefore everyone hates Asians.

And you can do that all you like; many people do. The problem is that someone else might be black, with an Asian boss - therefore everyone hates blacks and Asians are the pampered privileged. And that person's viewpoint, based on their subjective opinion, is just as valid as yours.

less representation of your demographic and smaller in number usually means more prejudice and racism against that group.

Ah. So native Hawaiians (.2%) must experience the most prejudice and racism, and Asians (5%) must see 20 times less. Sounds like Asians are doing much better than those poor native Hawaiians.

 

[DaveC426913]

less representation of your demographic and smaller in number usually means more prejudice and racism against that group.

What evidence is there to support this? Or is this more 'what birch believes is true'?