Creation Museum

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To throw one's hands up in the air and say that there must be a supernatural universe merely because we have not yet learned enough about this one to understand its more elusive phenomena is to give up on science!

where have i said life must have arisen by supernatural means?

I suspect that the reason abiogenesis is not taught in schools is the same reason that string theory is not taught in schools. Both areas of knowledge are not settled - they are controversial among cutting-edge scientists. What we teach schoolchildren is things we're fairly sure are correct.
thank you james. at least you are man enough to admit it.
Why should they assume anything?
because that is what people do when they don't have all the pieces.
it's also why you must continually tell new posters that there is a difference between evolution and abiogenesis.

Why are you avoiding the issue?
i am not avoiding anything. i made a simple statement and everybodys brains just oozed out of their heads.

If life did not come from non-life, where do you think it came from?

You must have some alternative idea.
i never said life didn't come from non life.
i said "science has no proof that life came from non life naturally"
the meaning behind that statement is that every scenario and every experiment performed to test abiogenesis has failed. period.
frankly i find it amazing that fraggle rocker would get as stupid as he did in his last post over a simple observation.

fraggle,
do not put any more words in my mouth.
 
Fraggle Rocker said:
To speak of a "motive" implies that nature isn't enough for you. That is human hubris.
To be humble? To think that there is a force more powerful than me? That's hubris? I'd better call up the folks at Merriam-Webster, ASAP.

This theory even allows for the C.W. to have created fossils, suspiciously similar DNA patterns, lightwaves in transit, and galaxies moving away from each other, making the universe appear to be billions of years old when in fact he actually pushed the Start button six thousand years ago.
Straw man. That's completely not what I'm claiming.

This makes for a nice story and of course it cannot be disproven, so it is not a scientific theory.
That's EXACTLY my point. Religion is NOT scientific theory. It should never be used to answer scientific questions. That was my whole point about science and religion being completely unrelated.

And the reason I counsel young people to keep their options open in case it gets so bad they have to emigrate.
Yes, I see, because a different person's belief has so much bearing on your own existence. You teach kids to be so intolerant to what other people are so much as thinking.
 
Yes, I see, because a different person's belief has so much bearing on your own existence. You teach kids to be so intolerant to what other people are so much as thinking.
More to the point I think is that unsupportable opinion is being offered and propounded as fact, somehow on the same level as scientific evidence and analysis.
 
This is a fact.

No, it is not. Much of the supporting evidence of these theories has been tested in lab. There have been no tests that prove the theory entirely, though. That may have been what was meant by you, but leopold's words were 100% false.
 
Hm, last time you linked me supporting evidence I had about a quarter of one hundred thousand words of text to read and only find it was off topic.

And I will not be backing up something so well known and easy to find for you. Unlike people such as Enmos, I am content to let others wallow in their ignorance.
 
leopold said:
i said "science has no proof that life came from non life naturally"
the meaning behind that statement is that every scenario and every experiment performed to test abiogenesis has failed. period.

Even if every scenario and every experiment performed to "test abiogenesis" had created living beings right in the jar in five minutes, science would have no proof that life came from non-life "naturally".

What you call the "meaning" is only indirectly related.

Science has no proof the sky was blue over North America in the Middle Ages. But the hypothesis seems to fit a lot of the facts.

The "tests" of abiogenesis provide info and argument about certain aspects or steps in hypothetical chains of event that might have been involved in abiogenesis. They have all succeeded in supplying such info, and therefore have none of them failed.

We don't know the biochemical mechanisms involved in living beings' appearance on earth. On the other hand, we didn't even have a biochemical mechanism for evolutionary change in bacteria until 1960, something which was happening right in our test tubes at twenty minute intervals, so maybe it's a little early to give up as failed the elucidation of a sequence of events that took place more than 3 billion years ago.
 
(The only exception to this is by people who don't believe in an allegorical interpretation of the Bible, which is a relatively small portion of Christians - and a portion I don't agree with).

Which is what this thread is about. Did you read the OP ?? :bugeye:
 
"The museum, which is said to have cost $27 million, is privately-funded through donations to the apologetics ministry Answers in Genesis and opened its doors to the public on May 28, 2007."
Wikipedia

Yeah…that’s definitely what Jesus would want people spending $27 million on – a museum with pictures of cave men riding around on dinosaurs. Not something silly like, you know, giving shelter to the homeless, food to the starving, or medical care to the sick. I'm sure that if Jesus were here he would totally pat you on the back and compliment you on your priorities. :rolleyes:

I just love how Christians make a huge deal out of believing that the Earth is 10000 years old and that life arose by magic when god clapped his hands, but them conveniently ignore most of the actual explicit instructions from Jesus in the New Testament.
 
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Where have i said life must have arisen by supernatural means?
You did not. I'm responding to your actual statement:
All i stated is that science has no proof that life arose naturally on this planet and the place becomes thoroughly unglued.
. . . by pointing out that the fundies "become thoroughly unglued" when we say that life (like absolutely everything else in the universe) must have arisen by natural means. It is the fundies who throw their hands up in the air and give up on science because we haven't solved all the riddles of nature yet. Forgive me for appearing to misquote you, that was not my intention. Pointing out that we have not yet proven that abiogenesis is possible is usually the first salvo in an attack on the theory of evolution. We are understandably tired of having to constantly fend off the forces of darkness in a website that is supposed to be a place where people come to learn and discuss science. As a Moderator, my approach to the problem is to define "trolling" in more detail so that we can delete their posts and toss them out on their butts, instead of having to repeat the same response fifty times to people who aren't going to read it anyway, in order to serve the people who do come here looking for science. Most of the offenders truly are trolls who are not interested or capable of scientific discussion.
To be humble? To think that there is a force more powerful than me? That's hubris? I'd better call up the folks at Merriam-Webster, ASAP.
There already is a force more powerful than you. Four of them actually: Gravity, electromagnetism, and the strong and weak nuclear forces. It's human hubris to insist that the universe cannot possibly be ruled by these soulless, mindless, compassionless natural forces, but must instead be ruled by a supernatural being that is so very much like a giant Homo sapiens.
Yes, I see, because a different person's belief has so much bearing on your own existence. You teach kids to be so intolerant to what other people are so much as thinking.
Sorry, I've posted my advice about emigration so often that I've apparently condensed it beyond the point of comprehension. I'm not urging people to leave America because they can't tolerate religion. If that were all of it, I would urge them to stay and fight for rationality. My point is that the anti-science, anti-rationality program of the Religious Redneck Retard movement is very likely to destroy our economy. Who would want their children to live in a place that was not only ruled by RRR's, but also abjectly poor, possibly a vassal state of China?

Not to mention, the mutual intolerance of the two leading cults of Abrahamism is leading to the resumption of the Crusades. I don't want to be collateral damage in that war and die for a cause I despise.
 
Enmos said:
Which is what this thread is about. Did you read the OP ??
True, but when everyone was accusing leopold of being religious, it got off topic, and turned into a hate-fest. Even though I was agreeing with the OP, but all I got was a whole slew of hatred by Fraggle Rocker.
 
ya know.....I was awe-struck today.....I brought up the creationist musiem to a few people I work with and meet throughout my normal day........

almost HALF of them.......belived the world was only 6,000 years old......

needless to say my jaw dropped and I asked each and every one of them......."WHY??!!!"

among the various replies all of which were illogical and flew in the face of every day common knowledge KNOWN science......I could do nothing.....I was speechless.......


I didnt know this belief was that common........I had no idea until I asked.....
 
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james,
this is a part of what i was saying earlier:
Life must exist before it can to start diversifying. Life had to come from somewhere, and the theory of evolution proposes that it arose spontaneously out of the inert chemicals of planet Earth perhaps 4 billion years ago.
http://science.howstuffworks.com/evolution11.htm

as you can see abiogenesis and evolution are treated as the same theory.
personally i've never heard the word abiogenesis before i started posting here.
 
leopold said:
as you can see abiogenesis and evolution are treated as the same theory.
As I can see they are not, not even close:
Two representative quotes from your link:
In order for the principles of mutation and natural selection in the theory of evolution to work, there have to be living things for them to work on. Life must exist before it can to start diversifying
That clearly separates ordinary Darwinian biological evolution from abiogeneses, and the site goes one to retail a common creationist error, confusing the matter:
These examples do simplify the requirements for the "original cell," but it is still a long way to spontaneous generation of life. Perhaps the first living cells were completely different from what we see today, and no one has yet imagined what they might have been like. Speaking in general terms, life can only have come from one of two possible places:

Spontaneous creation - Random chemical processes created the first living cell.

Supernatural creation - God or some other supernatural power created the first living cell.
That second statement is not true - instead of "random" chemical processes, evolutionary accumulation of complexities is possible.
 
I agree with you, Enmos. And they never should be able to even make a museum like that in the first place without making it very clear to anyone that visits that none of it is based on fact and is merely a suggested view.
 
Why should they have to make that clear? Private businesses have no obligation to educate the public.
 
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