Can former atheists explain what atheism is?

[Jan Ardena]

As rational people do.

What is rational about that?

Imagine a world where actually asking to see evidence is disparaged - as Jan does above.

Why lie?

"Your honour, the defense clearly is in denial about the existence of unicorns. As if we actually need to show a unicorn to know that they're real (rolls eyes). The defense mocks this courtroom, with his ... his demand for quote evidence unquote...."

Why did you switch to “ unicorns”?
Do you think you could at least pretend to act rationally, by remaining on topic?

Imagine a world where first we posit things might exist, and then ask what evidence we need to accept them.

What kind of “things” are you talking about?

Jan: I posit the existence of a square circle. Please provide me with particulars of what would be acceptable in the way of evidence to convince you. (And then I will find a book where people say they saw square circles.)

You’re being irrational.
Calm down, take a deep breath, then try and remain in topic. Do you think you can do that!

Yes. Also known as being rational.

No it’s not.
You are irrational.

Contrast with Jan, knowing in his hearty-heart that God. Just. Is.

The difference between us is that, I’m not in denial.
Why do you reject and deny God, now that we know the evidence song is just a diversion?

Indeed. Just as a-unicornism is the position of not believing in unicorns.

Irrrrrrrrrrrrrational!!!

Jan, why do you reject unicorns?

I don’t reject unicorns, and neither do you.
But you deny and reject God. Why?

Clearly the fact that the word 'unicorn' exists - and is a concept - is proof that they exist. (And you certainly don't need evidence, right?)

Irrrrrrrrrational!!!

Jan.

 

[Beer w/Straw]

Atheists just deny.

Jan.

That's a good one.

Tell me more.

 

[Write4U]

You’re lying!
Atheism is not supported by current science.
Science = knowledge = God.

Whose God? Who shall we pick from the thousand existing Gods?

Atheists are forced to believe that the desire and ability “to know”, is a result of billions of years of evolution, starting from nothing.
That doesn’t even make sense.
Jan.

Oh yes it does, because that has been proven, despite your hysterical protestations.

Desire and Ability are evolved results of "natural movement in the direction of greatest satisfaction".

Unfortunately you believe that this universal imperative is the expressed desire and ability of some undefined entity which started from nothing. See, I can use your argument against itself, but you cannot use my argument against itself. There is abundant evidence on my side, none on yours.

God IS, God ALWAYS existed, and God is INFINITE, are hopeless expressions of wishful thinking, without a shred of evidence, logic, or reason to support such a claim.

Do you clain that God is a universal constant? Proof will be required, you do realize that?

 

[DaveC426913]

Atheism is not supported by current science.
Science = knowledge = God.

Science is evidence-based. Where's the evidence?

I don’t reject unicorns, and neither do you.

Okay, so Jan believes in unicorns. And God.

Jan's hoisted himself on his own petard.
He has been claiming that atheists reject God - and by that that they don't believe God exists.

So, by his own use of "reject", either

1] Jan believes in unicorns in the same way he believes in God: That unicorns really exist.
or
2] he simply means he believe in unicorns as a concept. Which is what we've been saying about God all along.

There is no better way for an argument to be dismantled that for the arguer to contradict himself.


A final observation:
It is astonishing how often Jan reveals his own emotional state by projecting it onto others.

Here, he projects his own emotionally frenzied state:

Irrrrrrrrrrrrrational!!!

Irrrrrrrrrational!!!

on to others:

Calm down, take a deep breath...

That's six exclamation marks, and a lot of yelling.


(Notice Jan, that I don't make unfounded assertions. They are founded in your own words. The only way you can deny them is if you deny your own words.)

 

[spidergoat]

There is no reasoning with someone who is in denial.

I embrace reason, you reject it. I'm open to evidence of this thing you're talking about, so get some.

The fact that you can ask why God doesn’t give you any reasons, should be enough to understand that God Is.

I can ask lots of things about theoretical entities, that is a mark of intellectual maturity.

But you will replace that knowledge with anything that keeps you in your current condition.

Don't presume to know what's in my mind.

No it’s not.

Then why do various religions define god differently? And some don't include the concept at all? Who's in denial now? Even the Bible acknowledges other god concepts.

 

[Jan Ardena]

That's a good one.

Tell me more.

You tell me more.

Jan.

 

[Beer w/Straw]

You tell me more.

Jan.

I'm way too dumb.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Whose God? Who shall we pick from the thousand existing Gods?

What do you mean by “Whose God”?

You mean “thousands of existing god’s”.
I don’t think it’s wor

Oh yes it does, because that has been proven, despite your hysterical protestations.

No it hasn’t.
Stop lying!

Unfortunately you believe that this universal imperative is the expressed desire and ability of some undefined entity which started from nothing.

No I don’t.

God isn’t “undefined”.
God just I

See, I can use your argument against itself, but you cannot use my argument against itself. There is abundant evidence on my side, none on yours.

No you can’t.
You

God IS, God ALWAYS existed, and God is INFINITE, are hopeless expressions of wishful thinking, without a shred of evidence, logic, or reason to support such a claim.

Don’t you think something (for want of a better expression) always just is?

Can you or anyone imagine and explain absolute nothingness?

Jan.

 

[Jan Ardena]

I'm way too dumb.

So what?

Jan.

 

[Beer w/Straw]

So what?

Jan.

heh, you tell me.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Science is evidence-based. Where's the evidence?

Evidence presupposes truth.
God I

Okay, so Jan believes in unicorns.

Stop lying!
Why do you lie so much?

Jan's hoisted himself on his own petard.
He has been claiming that atheists reject God - and by that that they don't believe God exists.

Think about it Sherlock.
If you reject God, it means you refuse to accept God. Eventually you can come to believe the reasons you choose to accept God. That’s where the belief ends. The Belief blue states that the fool doth say in his heart (subconscious), there is no God. Not that the fool doth not “believe in God”.

Jan believes in unicorns in the same way he believes in God: That unicorns really exist.
or

Dave

he simply means he believe in unicorns as a concept. Which is what we've been saying about God all along.

Whose been saying all along?
Folk who convince themselves there is no God.
Talk about zero credibility!

jan.

 

[Jan Ardena]

heh, you tell me.

Nope!
For once, you tell me.

Jan.

 

[Jan Ardena]

I embrace reason, you reject it. I'm open to evidence of this thing you're talking about, so get some.

You don’t embrace reason. You work on sounding like you embrace reason. But on the subject matter of God, you are totally unreasonable.

I can ask lots of things about theoretical entities, that is a mark of intellectual maturity.

So, intellectual maturity is the cause of curiosity? Well that’s a new one.

And some don't include the concept at all?

???

Who's in denial now?

Certainly not me.

Even the Bible acknowledges other god concepts.

So what?
God creates gods to do stuff.
What’s your point!

Jan.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Dave

Evidence presupposes truth.
God I

Evidence presupposes truth.
Truth presupposes God.
God is the Absolute Trith.

Jan.

 

[spidergoat]

You don’t embrace reason. You work on sounding like you embrace reason. But on the subject matter of God, you are totally unreasonable.

Then give me a reason to believe it!

So, intellectual maturity is the cause of curiosity?

No, it's intellectually mature to do thought experiments where one assumes certain premises for the purposes of argument.

What’s your point!

Faith is fake knowledge.

Evidence presupposes truth.

Evidence is reason to think something may likely be true. The truth of things lies in their demonstrability, or usefulness. I'm hearing hints of presuppositionalism, which is laughable nonsense.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presuppositional_apologetics
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Presuppositionalism

 

[Jan Ardena]

Then give me a reason to believe it!

It doesn’t work like that.
You’re better off staying where you are.

No, it's intellectually mature to do thought experiments where one assumes certain premises for the purposes of argument.

That’s not what you said.
Asking a lot of things about theoretical entities, is neither necessarily intellectually mature, or akin to thought experiments. And your response does nothing to address my point.
It’s just asking questions about theoretical entities

Faith is fake knowledge.

You don’t know what you’re talking about.
You don’t know what faith is, especially seeing as how you have lots of it.

Evidence is reason to think something may likely be true. The truth of things lies in their demonstrability, or usefulness. I'm hearing hints of presuppositionalism, which is laughable nonsense.

It’s kind of pathetic how you are controlled by labels and genres. As far as you are concerned , if something is associated with a certain label, or genre, that has been assassinated by by lefty-type thinking, you feel comfortable enough to go with it, without studying it’s content.
That, to me, is a sign of someone who is brainwashed.

Jan.

 

[DaveC426913]

Jesus, everybody back off. We're losin' him!

God is the Absolute Trith.

Irrrrrrrrrrrrrational!!!
Irrrrrrrrrational!!!

I don’t think it’s wor

God just I

No you can’t.
You

Somebody call a bondulance. I think Jan is having a stronk.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Jesus, everybody back off. We're losin' him!

Aw! Poor you.
You have to resort to my dodgy phone to try to regain some form of credibility.

I wish I could feel how you intend me to feel, just to help you get one over on me.


Jan

 

[DaveC426913]

Aw! Poor you.
You have to resort to my dodgy phone to try to regain some form of credibility.

I wish I could feel how you intend me to feel, just to help you get one over on me.


Jan

Your phone made you type
Irrrrrrrrrrrrrational!!!
Irrrrrrrrrational!!!
and God is the Absolute Truth??

 

[Jan Ardena]

Your phone made you type
Irrrrrrrrrrrrrational!!!
Irrrrrrrrrational!!!
and God is the Absolute Truth??

My phone didn’t make me do anything.
Does your phone make you do things?

Jan.