Ganymede
Valued Senior Member
Aplogise for slavery?
- Thread starter alexb123
- Start date
I wish all people would do exactly that! Instead of constantly fighting and bickering with people they don't like or want to be around.
Voluntary segragation is the only way we're gonna' make it through all of this racism bullshit. And notice that it's not all whites versus all blacks ...it's being in places where you're accepted for who and what you are. Forcing people to live where they don't want to live, and with people they don't like is utter nonsense!
I'm happy that you've found a good place to live and work, and I wish you all of the best fortune in your life.
Baron Max
If so, then she's not even remotely indicative of the blacks in the world. Or any other human "race", for that matter. Perhaps you should have her checked out at a hospital ...maybe someone injected her with too much "idealism vaccine".
Baron Max
she married a white person didnt she? so why would she prefer black people if she did that?.
obviously that proves that she does not care one way or the other, love is love, black or white who cares, i know i dont.
peace.
Which by that very fact, means that she should be checked out in a hospital for an over-abundance of the "idealism vaccine".
Baron Max
Might makes right. Europeans had guns, Native Americans had bow and arrow, gun beats bow and arrow just like the American bomb beats rocks, or pistols, and just like the nuclear bomb beat Japan. Ethics have nothing to do with acquiring resources, we all know that Europeans did what was rational, which was to take as much land as they needed, by force if neccessary.
The problem is not that they won the war for America, it's how the war was won that makes it unethical. Did Europeans have to commit genocide against the Native Americans to take the land? Absolutely not. A lot of the stuff that went on was just cruel. There were a lot of rapings of women, a lot of violence, the whole smallpox thing that almost wiped Native Americans out entirely.
Culture controls time, not wealth. Although wealth does control people. That wealth comes from a culture of capitalism and control, domination is also cultural. Violence and war is also a cultural tradition for solving disputes.
I think we have to solve disputes without extreme violence and figure out how to have bloodless wars.
When you volunteer to work? What if the situation is, you work or you starve to death?
Violence is unnecessary to get people to do what you want them to do.
If you have to resort to violence, then your approach is not smart/thorough enough. Currently, almost everyone in the world is doing stuff they don't want to do, and most are not violently forced to do it.
No, people today suffered from segregation. I'm saying move on because, most people just don't care about the suffering of others. How long did it take for people to pay attention to genocide in Darfur? It's time we all accept, that there is a deficit of compassion in this world, and that theres not enough compassion to do anything about it. When people decide it's in their best interest economically, then something will be done about it. Unless you can make a case that it's in our economic interest to help people, as a country, it's just not going to happen.
It might happen on the individual level, but you'll have to convince the country that it's wise to invest in development in the ghettos of this country. Because there is no innate reason for people to care about the poor, and if those poor are minorities, and in ghettos, a lot of people simply hate them for existing.
It's indefensible and it's a bad idea. This is coming from a man of compassion, who actually wants to help people. I think the way to help people is through economic machines, economic organization, economic development, trade, investment, the types of things which attract greedy selfish people who will do whats in their best interest and help others, but who do not actually care about people.
The main problem with reparations is, giving a check from the government is the most stupid possible way to help people, and everyone knows this. Giving land would be better than a check. Giving investment capital would be better than a check. Anything is better than giving out checks.
Secondly, reparations is framed in slavery. Very few people care about that issue today. It's not the 1800s anymore, so how far do you think slavery can go as a political issue? It's a dead issue and it's pointless to live in the 1800s politically.
Finally, reparations are not framed in a reasonable and rational way. If you are a rich white person, why should you care about poor black kids growing up in the ghetto? Now, if you see the potential each one of these kids has to your business, or see each one of these kids as an investment, then it's suddenly in your best interest to educate them, train them, and put them on your workforce.
Now, this is not to say that all rich white people are greedy and selfish, but a lot of people who have a lot of money, are greedy and selfish, and are not going to be convinced out of remorse, or guilt, to do what's in their best interest. You'll have to convince them with math, science, statistics, and facts. You'll have to prove to them that investing in urban communities is in their best interest as an employer, as a businessman, and is also in the best interest of national security and of the country.
The case can be made, that having ghettos in this country is a negative on national security. It does not make any of us safer when we sit back and let places get turned into a ghetto. We can make the case that letting people be jobless, is promoting insecurity, promoting all sorts of things which we don't want promoted. We can make the case that sitting back and allowing or ignoring ghettos, is inefficient, and we can finally make the most important case against it by explaining how it's inefficient use of human resources.
Each human, has a value to a corporation somewhere, thus each human has a value to the economy. By helping the people in your own state, you help yourself. By helping people in your own city, you help yourself. And by helping people in your own community, you help yourself, and it's best if you can help people in a way that increases your profits.
So the real way to fix this problem is to make it more profitable to help people than to hurt people, and that requires in my opinion, inventing social corporations which run tax free. It's partly a problem of organization but it's also a problem of poor framing, and lack of will.
Some people don't care, if you support reparations, you have to accept the fact that some people just don't care and will never care about the poor, unless it's in their best interest. So in this case, emotionalism, and talk about slavery, and appeals to guilt, will get you absolutely no where. You don't make a business deal by trying to appeal to guilt when you are dealing with a successful business partner whom you know does not feel guilt. Instead you appeal to greed, just like how capitalism itself appeals to greed. So get with the program and figure out how to use the power of greed and selfishness for good.
Well I agree, it's about community, not race.
People should be loyal to community, not to some vague collective of people who share a skin gene or whatever.
A community, or a tribe if it's an international community, is not the same as a race.
Voluntary segregation is a solution. I don't want to have to live amongst racists anymore than racists want to have to live amongst me, so I think it's a good solution.
I'll address your concerns again. I do not think most blacks are waiting for an apology. I think most blacks just want a fair chance. I think most blacks don't want to be in ghettos, and don't want underfunded urban schools, and want the chance to start businesses and be productive.
An apology is for sissys.
So if whites apologize, then it'll wipe all of that off the history books? The apology will make everything okay again? All blacks will be happy and satisfied?
And if not, then ....are blacks seeking some kind of revenge ...for something that happened to their ancestors ...by the ancestors of people still living?
What, please tell me, does an apology do for anyone?
Baron Max
Pandaemoni
Valued Senior Member
I think you may have misinterpreted my post. I was not suggesting anything regarding the morality of the slave system or the defeat of Native Americans, I was simply responding to the inquiry regarding whether any living American benefits 'in any way" from slavery.
The answer is "yes" for the same reason that living Americans benefit from the taking of land from the aboriginal peoples. Ethical or not (and certainly "not" in those two cases) the wealth transfer continues to have indirect, but sizable, effects on who holds wealth iin subsequent generations.
That there are effects does not mean that I agree that reparations should be paid, because I don't think the winners and losers can be sorted out well enough (nor the magnitude of benefits and detriments measured accurately enough).
A rhetorical mechanism needed for defending one's claim to entitlement to perpetual, performance-averse victim status in a venue of equal opportunity but not assured equal outcome.
An admission to needing forgiveness for performance-anxiety.
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