Do homeopathic remedies contain measurable quantities of the "medicine"?

Who and how routine DBPC studies made a gold standard?
Science makes them a gold standard.
If science then it is not so for homeooathy but if by homeooaths, it is okay. ?
Of course it's OK. As we have previously determined, homeopathy is religion. You can believe any religion you like.

Still, if you are sick, it is wise to go to a doctor rather than a priest.
However, cancer cured just be rinse will not be observed or exoerienced by this oractical experisnce so will be taken as invalid treatment in practical experisnce. So whatever that exist for long and shown positive outcones in practical experisnces are only made vakid.
As I explained, in this case, the hairdresser's practical experience is that he cured the cancer with his hair rinse, time and time again. He observed it. It is real. It is a fact. It is no different than your claim that practical experience with homeopaths is real.

Of course, he overlooks the fact that the oncologist is treating their cancer via surgery and chemotherapy and that's what is really curing them. But he is ignorant of all that; in fact he claims that modern medicine is just a lot of bunk, and so does not care to learn about it. All he sees, just as all homeopaths see, is that the patient improves.
 
And the 2 fundamentals are as previously given: like cures like, and the more dilute the more potent a remedy is.
So please deal with homeopathy: not with what you think it should be, but what it is.

IMO "like cures like" is shorthand for "induced immunity", nothing wrong with that.

The second; "the more dilute, the more potent" is indeed troubling, as it was in the world of homeopathy as well.
The founder of homeopathy, Samuel Hahnemann (1755–1843), asserted that the process of succussion activated the "vital energy" of the diluted substance,[1] and that successive dilutions increased the "potency" of the preparation, although other strands of homeopathy (such as Schuessler's) disagreed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathic_dilutions

The concept is pseudoscience because, at commonly used dilutions, no molecules of the original material are likely to remain.
I agree as far as the dilutions are concerned. And there was disagreement within the ranks of homeopaths as well.
 
Nope. I do not dilute their food with water until there is no food left. Therefore I am not homeopathic.
Not all homeopaths work like that. (see post #183).

Do give your children vitamin supplements? Just random quantities or carefully selected for the right dosage?
I am not disagreeing with the argument against dilution ad infinitum. I am saying that not all homeopathy is practised that way and I have offered supporting evidence.
 
Do give your children vitamin supplements? Just random quantities or carefully selected for the right dosage?
Nope. We feed them food, not food with water diluted until there's no food left. Hence I am homeostasis but not homeopathy (by your definitions.)
 
Science makes them a gold standard.

Of course it's OK. As we have previously determined, homeopathy is religion. You can believe any religion you like.

It is not scientific determination is universal, absolute and complete because it itself is not claimed to be yet universal, absolute and complete. So its standard also.



As I explained, in this case, the hairdresser's practical experience is that he cured the cancer with his hair rinse, time and time again. He observed it. It is real. It is a fact. It is no different than your claim that practical experience with homeopaths is real.

Of course, he overlooks the fact that the oncologist is treating their cancer via surgery and chemotherapy and that's what is really curing them. But he is ignorant of all that; in fact he claims that modern medicine is just a lot of bunk, and so does not care to learn about it. All he sees, just as all homeopaths see, is that the patient improves.

If practical experience suggest accordingly then what is the issue? Whole sense is in cure of disease not in framing unnecessary theories.
 
Nope. We feed them food, not food with water diluted until there's no food left. Hence I am homeostasis but not homeopathy (by your definitions.)
No you would be neither, you are a parent.
I'll leave it at that. All further discussion about your parenting skills is meaningless.
 
From the link: https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/nursing-and-health-professions/homeopathy
That is chemical communication. If the communication is for purposes of triggering an auto-inductive response it is called "quorum sensing"
For hopefully the last time: homeopathy is not defined by the process it is trying to make use of, but the method in which it tries to do it. i.e. the "like cures like", and the "more dilute = more potent" approach. Those two things define homeopathy.
If you want to talk about what you think homeopathy is trying to make use of, and only argue about that, you're NOT talking about what makes homeopathy homeopathy.

I would say that it is the wrong way of applying homeopathy. It seems to be the exact opposite of what we now know and have named quorum sensing (unknown at the time of the founder).
So, again, you're no longer talking about homeopathy itself, but what you think homeopathy should be doing.
I am sure that if he had current knowledge of how bacteria and chemical sensing organelles function he would have advocated for a gradual "increase" (not decrease) in catalysts to find the proper level that triggers the auto-immune system to respond.
Irrelevant. He didn't. He advocated for 30C dilutions, etc. So let's deal with what homeopathy IS, not what you think it should be.

Whereas you want to scrap the field of homeopathy altogether, what I am proposing here may be of future use to the practitioners of homeopathy.
No, I am saying that if you remove what makes homeopathy homeopathy (i.e. the 2 fundamentals previously mentioned) then it is no longer homeopathy, but something else.
Yes, I would love the world to scrap the field of homeopathy: scrap the notions of "like cures like", and the dilution=potency nonsense.
Maybe, one day, homeopathy will adapt and formally scrap the fundamentals on which the practice was based, and the term "homeopathy" will become used for some other practice, hopefully one that is supported by science. But until then, let's stick with what the label actually represents, not what it aims to make use of, but the how it tries to do it.

No, if you do it just right you are homeopathic.
No, if you do it according to the fundamentals of homeopathy then you are homeopathic: i.e. like-cures-like, and dilution=potency.
The word "homeopathy" comes from "homeo" - meaning "of the same kind", and "pathia" - meaning "feeling, suffering, emotion; disease, disorder". The idea of "like cures like" is in the very name.

IMO "like cures like" is shorthand for "induced immunity", nothing wrong with that.
Unfortunately you'd be wrong with your understanding of what it is shorthand for.
Induced immunity prevents the disease taking hold, prevents the symptoms. You try to induce immunity in those not yet suffering, in the hope that the immunity takes hold and thus grants protection going forward. This is the basis of vaccinations.
Homeopathy uses the notion of "like cures like" to try to cure symptoms once you have them. So it's not to induce an immunity but to actually cure the ailment/symptoms thereof.
If you have CoVid, giving you something to induce immunity is going to do nothing for you. It's too late.
If you have a headache, homeopathy would suggest you take something that would give a headache to a healthy person (albeit the remedy would be so dilute as to be nothing but water). The remedy wouldn't be given to induce immunity. It's too late for that. The body will already be trying to generate an immunity through fighting whatever is causing the headache. To cure a person of ailment X, they would prescribe a remedy Y that would cause X in a healthy person. No inducing of immunity.
So no, your understanding of homeopathy is wrong in this regard.


Not all homeopaths work like that. (see post #183).
Modern homeopaths do. They adhere to the two fundamentals of homeopathy.

From wiki:
"Although he was firmly within the homeopathy movement of his day, the modern definition of homeopathy tends to exclude his concept of homeopathic potency,[2] which favoured remedies which, while very dilute, still retained small amounts of the original salt."
I.e. you are continuing to refer in your defence not to (modern) homeopathy, which is what is being discussed, but to other alternative medical practices.
 
So please deal with homeopathy: not with what you think it should be, but what it is.

thats like saying
"alternative medicine" and suggesting all those fringe charitys collecting for rare illness research are scams
are they ?
some must be
like the ALS ice bucket challenge was labelled as a big scam
was it ?

is USA medical a big scam ?
it charges soo much money it looks like a scam

the old expression is
the pot calling the kettle black

modern accurate morally based medical science in the USA is very rare because the entire system is designed to squeeze the patient so it wipes them out financially

imagine that as a pricing system

pricing designed to financially wipe out the customer in 1 sale

soo while homeopathy may have a measure of quackery in it
does one apply the word scam to it in the same way the word scam can be applied to the American user pays health system ?

look at all the fat & diabetics in the usa & all the drug addicts
the system has failed them terribly
so it IS a scam for them yes ?
because it has failed to deliver

how many over dose deaths per day in usa ?

see how the real data starts to change the real landscape when you apply real life , life & death with money
against real lifes being lost

looks like the usa medical system is a scam

but a common analogy in usa is comparative moral values by virtue of complicity agreement
so the total number of people being scammed is soo large that it means they stop calling it a scam and start calling it morally solid foundation

its not though is it
its not equal for rich & poor alike
so there is no moral base

so it is a scam
big fat money scam making drug addicts & making home foreclosures & making bankruptcy's

now you have all that putrid mess & death
hold that up to homeopathy and ask which is cleaner & which kills less people

comparative bi-partisan moral process

is that fair ?

you asked for a reality check of comparison on homeopathy
so i have given you one
 
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If practical experience suggest accordingly then what is the issue?
Because he is wrong even though his practical experience proves he was right.

Which is why practical experience is a poor guide to such things.
Whole sense is in cure of disease not in framing unnecessary theories.
If you want to cure disease you have to do things that actually cure disease - not just things that make it look like to you cure disease. They are not the same thing.
 
thats like saying
"alternative medicine" and suggesting all those fringe charitys collecting for rare illness research are scams
It's nothing like saying that at all.
Homeopathy is indeed an "alternative medicine" (although I am hesitant to use the second term), but saying that one such is a scam does not mean that all are. If one can demonstrate, for example, that the specific "alternative medicine" works no better than the placebo effect, or that the remedies they give have no active ingredient and are just pure water, and the fundamentals upon which they are based have no support in science, then I think one is entitled to call it a scam.
is USA medical a big scam ?
it charges soo much money it looks like a scam
"Scam"? No, at least not in that the vast majority of it actually has a reasonable chance of helping the patient.
Is it value for money? No idea.
Are the unscrupulous people within the system, gaming it, making obscene amounts of money off what is effectively other people's suffering? Undoubtedly.
Are doctors incentivised to prescribe certain medicines rather than, perhaps more helpful ones, or even where no medicine is required? Quite possibly in some instances.
Would I therefore call the entirety of "USA medical" a scam? No, at least not in the same way as homeopathy seems to be, in that one is based from the outset on nonsense, and selling pure water as a remedy.
you asked for a reality check of comparison on homeopathy
so i have given you one
I didn't ask for a comparison of anything, thanks. But in providing one you have failed to actually address whether homeopathy is a scam or not, and the nature of that scam. Rather your defense seems to be "well, other medicine is a scam". Just because another system of medicine has its flaws, and may well be a scam, does not mean that homeopathy is not a scam.
 
reasonable chance

= gamble
= not scientific

1 critical word "chance"
1 applied concept "reasonable"

if we break that down to the placebo effect
being able to have a reasonable chance at creating placebo effect is indeed medicine and a result of positive ends
the means may be the worlds most expensive medical system which doesn't deliver to all its citizens

im cherry picking a little here but just to make a point

I didn't ask for a comparison of anything, thanks.
So please deal with homeopathy: not with what you think it should be, but what it is.
Would I therefore call the entirety of "USA medical" a scam? No, at least not in the same way as homeopathy seems to be, in that one is based from the outset on nonsense, and selling pure water as a remedy.

equally how many patients die every day from suicide & drug over dose ?
soo many in the usa that it counts as a failure of the system

I didn't ask for a comparison of anything, thanks. But in providing one you have failed to actually address whether homeopathy is a scam or not, and the nature of that scam.

my opinion ...
some of homeopathy, in spite of it working on some people
appears non scientific

comparative profit

the scam is money
to get money

Just because another system of medicine has its flaws, and may well be a scam, does not mean that homeopathy is not a scam.

co-pays & insurance exemptions
 
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= gamble
= not scientific

1 critical word "chance"
1 applied concept "reasonable"

if we break that down to the placebo effect
being able to have a reasonable chance at creating placebo effect is indeed medicine and a result of positive ends
the means may be the worlds most expensive medical system which doesn't deliver to all its citizens

im cherry picking a little here but just to make a point
Not a very good one, I'm afraid.
"Gamble" doesn't mean that something is not scientific, as we are only talking of % chance of success (the % identified from clinical trials, for example).
If one pill offers you a 20% chance of curing the symptoms, and another offers 70%, and taking a placebo offers 20%, then the 70% pill offers "a reasonable chance". It's a "gamble" in as much as it is not a certainty, but it is still scientificly better than something which offers merely 20% chance.
equally how many patients die every day from suicide & drug over dose ?
soo many in the usa that it counts as a failure of the system
Ok. Failure of a system does not equate to it being a scam, though.

some of homeopathy, in spite of it working on some people
appears non scientific
The fundamentals upon which it is built appear non-scientific - especially the "more dilute = more potent".

comparative profit

the scam is money
to get money
Not sure of the point here?
co-pays & insurance exemptions
Or here, I'm afraid.
 
Not sure of the point here?
Or here, I'm afraid.

im getting a bit technical
however
getting money is the scam
to obtain money is the goal of the scam

the rules & game of the scam is the MO

scam MO does not change the goal which is to get money
the scam being the nature of MO in what ever form
legal illegal obvious deceitful etc
exploitative psychology to get agreement can be a scam even though the party is agreeing to give you all their money

the reason i call it a scam is because its not a simple equal trade
& 1 party has direct intent to deny critical facts & information to the other to leverage the decision process

so quite technical yet to me the same because the psychology can be applied

co-pays are additional fees on top of the insurance cover
but the insurance cover does not cover it
so your un-insured but only party
so your insured but party not insured
= scam

the scam is to prevent you from going to a different insurer to demand proper coverage

err go ...
co-pay is a scam

MO of the insurance scam versus goal of the scam
versus
"what is the scam"
the scam is insurance cover
the MO is denial of information & denial of competition & denial of complete terms by denial of opposition competition to get better value

its 100% a scam
MO different to
scam
different to game & rules & social practice
like religion
 
im getting a bit technical
however
getting money is the scam
to obtain money is the goal of the scam
Okay. If you think the USA healthcare system is a scam, then that's what you think. I don't know the US system, only the UK system (universal healthcare through general taxation), so am not in a position to agree or disagree with you.
 
Because he is wrong even though his practical experience proves he was right.

Which is why practical experience is a poor guide to such things.

If you want to cure disease you have to do things that actually cure disease - not just things that make it look like to you cure disease. They are not the same thing.
There is a difference. Hairdresser is a non competent doctor but like doctor you mentioned homeopaths are well qualified competent. Dimply meds difference. Yes it is oersonal choice snd personal experience, one competent knowing limitations of both system, prefer treatment of his choice in his best interest. May it be by homeooathy or allopathy.
 
Hairdresser is a non competent doctor but like doctor you mentioned homeopaths are well qualified competent.
Both hairdressers and homeopaths believe they are well qualified and competent. They are equally correct.
Dimply meds difference.
I know I prefer my meds dimply!
Yes it is oersonal choice snd personal experience, one competent knowing limitations of both system, prefer treatment of his choice in his best interest. May it be by homeooathy or allopathy.
It is absolutely personal choice. However, homeopathy belongs to the same category as crystals, incense and Christian Scientists. Those are all things that make people feel better without having any measurable effect on their health compared to a placebo.
 
Both hairdressers and homeopaths believe they are well qualified and competent. They are equally correct.


I know I prefer my meds dimply!

It is absolutely personal choice. However, homeopathy belongs to the same category as crystals, incense and Christian Scientists. Those are all things that make people feel better without having any measurable effect on their health compared to a placebo.

May be in your opinion. But your opinion need not to be opinion of others in their experiance. So you enjoy your home they will enjoy their home No issue.
 
May be in your opinion. But your opinion need not to be opinion of others in their experiance. So you enjoy your home they will enjoy their home No issue.
Bear in mind that just because people get convinced they're getting a benefit from a scam doesn't mean that it's not a scam. People can be blissful in their ignorance. At least until the placebo effect doesn't work with them. ;)
 
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