the real collusion investigation.

[RainbowSingularity]

He spent his own money

i will never forget the cell phone video of him passing out 10k in cash to contractors as a cash bonus.
that tells me he is not a corporate psychopath.

bit awkward being videoed doing it and would be nicer had he done it to the bottom of the rung workers also, but doing so exposes him to all sorts of liable suites and legal actions from those seeking to take a pound of flesh.
i would never vote for an anti-abortion party
i would never vote for a anti gay rights party
i would never vote for an anti democratic regulated capitalism party(at either end of the political spectrum)

i know what i am voting for & for what reasons & how that is enacted and processed politically , which is more than 50% of voters on the whole.

 

[spidergoat]

He spent his own money in order to get elected.

And I'm pretty sure he isn't against gay rights or justice for those who have actually been bashed.

Is this a joke? The investigation was about Russian interference in our election, and the extent to which the Trump campaign was involved. Apparently the answer is extensively, there were many meetings with the Russians, and campaign information was shared. Trump's character is well documented, he's a con man, a racist, a pathological liar, and a cheat, especially at golf and taxes. There was nothing suspicious about the way the investigation was conducted, by a Republican, at the request of a Republican. It's a lie that Trump was exonerated. He continues to obstruct justice, and has corrupted the Justice Department, which was his wish, given that he expected Jeff Sessions not to recuse himself, which would have been illegal. If Trump wasn't president, he would be indicted, if the Republicans weren't corrupt, he would have been impeached.

 

[billvon]

There is nothing he would hide from me.

He lies, on average, more than a dozen times a day, to everyone he talks to - the press, his lawyers, his staff. You would be no different; you are not special.

"The inability to lie. " a sign of a "good" character.

Agreed.

So what does that say about a man who has, so far in his presidency, lied 9451 times?

He would not lie about life or death situations concerning his people.

He already has. He lied about the death toll in Puerto Rico, for example, for political gain.

He would not lie about monetary concerns.

He already has. He has lied about his wealth a great many times. He promised to release his taxes. He lied about that, too.

And above all he would lie to his enemies through the faces of his friends. Yet he doesn't appear to be making any enemies

Other than most of the US and most of our former allies. But you are right - he's certainly not making enemies of Kim Jong Un, Putin and Duerte. Those are his allies.

I've met these muller types personally. They aren't people you want to get in bed with. . . .Comey has a better appearance in my mind.

So you judge people by their physical appearance, not their honor, or their actions, or their history. In that case, I can see how you'd like Trump. He has great hair and an orange suntan.

 

[billvon]

He spent his own money in order to get elected.

From Forbes:
===================
How Donald Trump Shifted $1.1M Of Campaign-Donor Money Into His Business

Dan Alexander

On the day Donald Trump became president of the United States, while inauguration festivities were still in full swing, he officially launched his 2020 reelection campaign. Donations poured in from more than 50,000 people across the country. But according to the latest federal filings, Trump still has not donated a penny of his own, while his businesses continued to charge the campaign for hotels, food, rent and legal consulting. That means the richest president in American history has turned $1.1 million from donors across the country into revenue for himself.
===================

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danale...n-donor-money-into-his-business/#5c5e7ec14d34

 

[Beaconator]

From Forbes:
===================
How Donald Trump Shifted $1.1M Of Campaign-Donor Money Into His Business

Dan Alexander

On the day Donald Trump became president of the United States, while inauguration festivities were still in full swing, he officially launched his 2020 reelection campaign. Donations poured in from more than 50,000 people across the country. But according to the latest federal filings, Trump still has not donated a penny of his own, while his businesses continued to charge the campaign for hotels, food, rent and legal consulting. That means the richest president in American history has turned $1.1 million from donors across the country into revenue for himself.
===================

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danale...n-donor-money-into-his-business/#5c5e7ec14d34

Looks more like he used campaign funds for campaign staff to stay at his place.

Was he supposed to pay for them to stay at the Hilton instead? So instead of being able to use contributions just once.... He retained them. Its a good legal business model.

I mean you can shut down some factories for a couple hours and loose a million dollars.

Here let me ask you a question. If he gives the donations back to the people that donated would that be illegal?

It could be seen that way. It would take a judge or jurry to determine if the intent was "good".

Better donation retention than wellfare or even churches

 

[Beaconator]

He lies, on average, more than a dozen times a day, to everyone he talks to - the press, his lawyers, his staff. You would be no different; you are not special.

Agreed.

So what does that say about a man who has, so far in his presidency, lied 9451 times?

He already has. He lied about the death toll in Puerto Rico, for example, for political gain.

He already has. He has lied about his wealth a great many times. He promised to release his taxes. He lied about that, too.

Other than most of the US and most of our former allies. But you are right - he's certainly not making enemies of Kim Jong Un, Putin and Duerte. Those are his allies.

So you judge people by their physical appearance, not their honor, or their actions, or their history. In that case, I can see how you'd like Trump. He has great hair and an orange suntan.

No I judge them by everything I see and weigh them against everything else.

So he talked to some people that run countries and have hate and made them better people in the eyes of others, What a horrible leader. Purging hate from the world through diplomacy.

Do you have any other contentions?

 

[iceaura]

I got a bid nervous when Trump brought that draft dodging chicken hawk Bolton into the administration.
Is Trump just using him as a foil?

Bolton has been on board since the campaign - he was a key part of the "transition team" (Trump didn't bother to have one, actually, since he had no intention of actually governing, but he had some personal advisors like Bolton). Anyone who voted for Trump was voting for Bolton's foreign policy, eyes open.
Trump has no foreign policy of his own. For example: He is currently engaged in pressuring Iran to make some kind of attack on something, anything, to justify a US or Israeli military assault - but it's an open question whether anyone has bothered to tell him that's what he's doing. They didn't tell Reagan, after all - the Republican foreign policy guys are used to working around figurehead Presidents who can keep the rubes in line.

From what I hear Trump appreciates the working man.

Of course he does. He has made a career out of ripping them off - not paying contractors, filing bankruptcy on them, a common technique he has used to fleece thousands. Selling them smoke - as in Trump University - another.

I've met these muller types personally

I've met your type personally - adult men who believe anything guys like Trump and Hannity tell them. Anyone male who shouts and brags, with confidence, you believe. You are like children, taking nickels instead of dimes because they are bigger.

Even the attorney general Bar alluded some of Mueller's content was than objective.

And you believed him. You believed Barr. Christ.

That's the job of lawyers

Barr's a lawyer, whose entire well-paid professional career has been lying to cover up high level Republican Party crime. That's his job, and always has been.
What the hell is wrong with the Republican voter, that they can't tell shit from shinola when its smeared on their face?

I doubt he ever ripped off an "ordinary" citizen.

So you don't know anything about Trump's career. That's not a surprise. But you also don't realize what happened when "Mexico will pay for it" morphed into "if it's not in the US Federal budget I will veto the budget" - and that was just this past year. Do you remember when Trump promised to show you his tax returns? That was just a couple years ago.

Watching Trump work the Republican voter is like watching a professional pickpocket work a stage act, taking people's watches and belts right on camera. The biggest difference is that the pickpocket's victims don't stand there claiming they still have a watch on their wrist and a wallet in their pocket.

 

[Beaconator]

do any of you actually understand how money works? On a global scale? Its history?

 

[Beaconator]

Bolton has been on board since the campaign - he was a key part of the "transition team" (Trump didn't bother to have one, actually, since he had no intention of actually governing, but he had some personal advisors like Bolton). Anyone who voted for Trump was voting for Bolton's foreign policy, eyes open.
Trump has no foreign policy of his own. For example: He is currently engaged in pressuring Iran to make some kind of attack on something, anything, to justify a US or Israeli military assault - but it's an open question whether anyone has bothered to tell him that's what he's doing. They didn't tell Reagan, after all - the Republican foreign policy guys are used to working around figurehead Presidents who can keep the rubes in line.

Of course he does. He has made a career out of ripping them off - not paying contractors, filing bankruptcy on them, a common technique he has used to fleece thousands. Selling them smoke - as in Trump University - another.

I've met your type personally - adult men who believe anything guys like Trump and Hannity tell them. Anyone male who shouts and brags, with confidence, you believe. You are like children, taking nickels instead of dimes because they are bigger.

And you believed him. You believed Barr. Christ.

Barr's a lawyer, whose entire well-paid professional career has been lying to cover up high level Republican Party crime. That's his job, and always has been.
What the hell is wrong with the Republican voter, that they can't tell shit from shinola when its smeared on their face?

So you don't know anything about Trump's career. That's not a surprise. But you also don't realize what happened when "Mexico will pay for it" morphed into "if it's not in the US Federal budget I will veto the budget" - and that was just this past year. Do you remember when Trump promised to show you his tax returns? That was just a couple years ago.

Watching Trump work the Republican voter is like watching a professional pickpocket work a stage act, taking people's watches and belts right on camera. The biggest difference is that the pickpocket's victims don't stand there claiming they still have a watch on their wrist and a wallet in their pocket.

Except for the fact people who invest in real estate typically have more money than those who rent. In a time where banks failed to lend to anyone. In a time where border security was completely ignored... In a time where the government was being overwhelmed with corruption of poor intent.

You all decided to blame one man!

I blame you all. None of you arguments touch anywhere near the roots of true problems. True crime or human evolution! your arguments stand between them. And that is not what message I'm sending in this thread.

Finger pointing not problem solving I thought individuals were supposed to be intelligent.

 

[iceaura]

Was he supposed to pay for them to stay at the Hilton instead?

Yes.
Just like he's supposed to have State visitors with business before the US President stay in places he does not profit from - the people who wrote the US Constitution had that scam figured out and forbidden before the US even existed.

Its a good legal business model.

It's bribery and corruption and grift and fraud and a violation of the oath of office he took - it's also treason, although that ship sailed away from Republican Island decades ago.

So he talked to some people that run countries and have hate and made them better people in the eyes of others

Like who? Trump voters?
Nobody else thinks Kim has suddenly become a better person, or Putin, or the Saudis, or any of the rest of Trump's new friends. If they are powerful enough they remain status quo evil, if they are less powerful they become more corrupt and evil by working with Trump.
In general, it appears none of Trump's associates have avoided being debased by the association. Even Barr - a walking weasel before he ever met Trump - apparently startled his friends by the extent to which he debased himself in Trump's service.

You all decided to blame one man!

Who in hell are you talking about now? I don't even blame Trump for the behavior of the Trump voter, the Republican voting base - he didn't put that shitpile of bigots, fundies, and imbeciles together. He just took the wheel, stole the car.
The Republican Party and its evils - its descent into fascism, its ruination of US government - was not Trump's creation.
And trying to pin it on Trump is something Republicans are doing now, not "us".

 

[Write4U]

I remember when Obama became president and the Republicans called him the "Dark Prince" as prophesized in the Bible. Turned out he was a Prince of Light and his wife an Angel of Compassion. But that was then.

Now we do have a Dark Prince in the WH, and the biblical prophecy has become true. How shall this turn out?
An Age of Enlightenment, or an Age of utter Darkness which will bring lies, strife, war, disease, poverty?

It seems the old saying is true;

'Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it.' The quote is most likely due to writer and philosopher George Santayana, and in its original form it read, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."Jul 31, 2013

Will our Democracy survive? After all, it is based on honesty, love, peace, health, comfort?

 

[Beaconator]

Yes.
Just like he's supposed to have State visitors with business before the US President stay in places he does not profit from - the people who wrote the US Constitution had that scam figured out and forbidden before the US even existed.

It's bribery and corruption and grift and fraud and a violation of the oath of office he took - it's also treason, although that ship sailed away from Republican Island decades ago.

Like who? Trump voters?
Nobody else thinks Kim has suddenly become a better person, or Putin, or the Saudis, or any of the rest of Trump's new friends. If they are powerful enough they remain status quo evil, if they are less powerful they become more corrupt and evil by working with Trump.
In general, it appears none of Trump's associates have avoided being debased by the association. Even Barr - a walking weasel before he ever met Trump - apparently startled his friends by the extent to which he debased himself in Trump's service.

He doesn't profit his kids do. Like Biden and his business dealings... Oh wait that was blackmail.

His new friends all seem to dislike Iran... The largest suplier of uranium in the world.

 

[Beaconator]

Nadler abused the separation of powers.

 

[iceaura]

He doesn't profit his kids do.

That's illegal also.
And of course false - Trump never divested. He profits from the extra high rents he charges those with business before the President, and from the extra high prices paid for the real estate he owns by Russians who need to get their money out of Russia, and from the extra high prices paid by the Secret Service and other US government personnel when they stay at Mar A Lago, as they have to when the President stays there, and so forth.

His new friends all seem to dislike Iran... The largest suplier of uranium in the world.

When you post idiocy anyone can Google http://www.world-nuclear.org/inform...-uranium/world-uranium-mining-production.aspx, it looks like trolling. But I know it's not - it's genuine belief on your part. You're a Trump voter - standing there on stage claiming your wallet is still in your pocket.

 

[iceaura]

Nadler abused the separation of powers.

Nadler's powers are granted his office explicitly, by law and the US Constitution. They are duties, assigned powers he is oath bound to employ. So far, he has failed to use them - his failure to use his powers is striking, and speculation as to why he is not doing his job is warranted.

 

[Beaconator]

That's illegal also.
And of course false - Trump never divested. He profits from the extra high rents he charges those with business before the President, and from the extra high prices paid for the real estate he owns by Russians who need to get their money out of Russia, and from the extra high prices paid by the Secret Service and other US government personnel when they stay at Mar A Lago, as they have to when the President stays there, and so forth.

When you post idiocy anyone can Google http://www.world-nuclear.org/inform...-uranium/world-uranium-mining-production.aspx, it looks like trolling. But I know it's not - it's genuine belief on your part. You're a Trump voter - standing there on stage claiming your wallet is still in your pocket.

Capitalism is illegal? What's your legal solution?

And Iran used to be one of the top. Years ago. I saw a map that shows where uranium deposits lie on earth and they have huge resources. Besides I doubt they freely hand that information out in English.

 

[Beaconator]

Nadler's powers are granted his office explicitly, by law and the US Constitution. They are duties, assigned powers he is oath bound to employ. So far, he has failed to use them - his failure to use his powers is striking, and speculation as to why he is not doing his job is warranted.

Fire him then.

 

[Write4U]

Nadler abused the separation of powers.

Nadler (Democrat),

11 hours ago - Nadler speaks after House judiciary votes to hold Barr in contempt .... READ: White House letter rejecting Nadler's demands for information as ...

How can one abuse the separation of powers? When the Constitution requires oversight, the individuals assigned with that task have no options but to do "due dillingence" (not abusive) as pledged under oath.

Moreover, the initial referrals came long before any politics were involved. The initial referral was to investigate possible Russian interfere in the US elections.

All referrals (except by public professional representatives) come from other Branches.
Mueller was not assigned by Congress, he was assigned by the Justice Dept.

Former FBI Director Robert Mueller (Republican) was assigned by Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein to "oversee ...

If there is a question "abuse of powers", who are the the guilty ones? Not the ones who did their "due dilligence".

 

[Beaconator]

Nadler (Democrat),
How can one abuse the separation of powers? When the Constitution requires oversight, the individuals assigned with that task have no options but to do "due dillingence" (not abusive) as pledged under oath.

Moreover, the initial referrals came long before any politics were involved. The initial referral was to investigate possible Russian interfere in the US elections.

All referrals (except by public professional representatives) come from other Branches.
Mueller was not assigned by Congress, he was assigned by the Justice Dept.
If there is a question "abuse of powers", who are the the guilty ones? Not the ones who did their "due dilligence".

By issuing a subpoena to Barr to bring the unredacted version of the Mueller report, he is asking the attorney general to break the law.

Oh Mueller is corrupt. No doubt about that. But Bar seems to have integrity and Nadler is setting a trap for him to break his integrity.

So Mueller and Nadler are corrupt.

 

[iceaura]

By issuing a subpoena to Barr to bring the unredacted version of the Mueller report, he is asking the attorney general to break the law.

No.
He is enforcing the law and precedent. Barr is supposed to have done that immediately. Barr is also required, by law, to respond to subpoenas from Nadler - he is not being "asked", but ordered.

But Bar seems to have integrity

Barr has no integrity, and hasn't had any for decades. Compare his summary with the actual Mueller report, for example.

Oh Mueller is corrupt. No doubt about that.

No evidence of that - except that Mueller is a Republican appointment, of course, which is a bad sign. And he soft-pedaled his report. But not all Republican appointees are corrupt.

Capitalism is illegal?

Bribery and corruption are illegal. That's why Trump is forbidden by law to accept money or valuables from foreigners with business before the Presidency.

And Iran used to be one of the top. Years ago.

You stated that Iran was the largest supplier of uranium in the world. That is a ridiculous thing to post, and lots of people would just assume you were trolling. But I think you really believe the shit you post - Trump voters believe lots of stuff like that, changing from month to month and year to year as the Republican media feed changes its tune.