The Big Bang Theory is the biggest lie in the western world

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I spent some time reading at a christian site.
You sound just like them.
Do you dislike the big bang because it does not follow the bible?
Alex

I'm not like them, everyone who believes in the Big Bang hypothesis are like them, they don't accept the possibility tha Big bang hypotehsis is wrong and simply ignore those evidences that contradict Big Bang, all those same reasons and evidences that I have written, and that you ignore, the fact is you are like the Bible believers not me, I don't believe in anything, you believe in Big Bang so much, you won't let it go, because you believe it too much; I'm just saying that Big Bang is wrong because of the already mentioned reasons, and you attacked me much like the church attacked Galileo.
Read my post 162 as answer to Paddoboy, I cannot believe you are so blind, if you cannot accept different views and holes in your interpretations, than that is your problem, not mine.
 
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The above are contradictions by our friend Gravage, the first two utterences in this thread rightly in pseudoscience, the third in a past thread entitled "Energy: Is it real?" :rolleyes::p
http://www.sciforums.com/threads/energy-what-is-it.114726/page-2#post-3074513

Are you blind or you don't know the difference between physical influences and something that cannot be influences by anything-where exactly are these contradictions, you just don't like read answers I post, and this is why you really don't understand anything I write, or you simply ignore those posts and don't understand anything.
Energy has physical influence, but there is no such thing as physical influence on space unless we are talking about some cosmic objects.
I already provide evidences wher enone wants to read them-again this is what happens when you go agains the church or any other academic organization these days.
What part of the dimensionless singularity, inflation, dark matter, dark energy, and space and time as abstracts concepts that can be curved and twisted by something physical like gravity are all just mathematical abstractions that do not exist and will never exist and can never exist in the real world you don't understand-these are all facts, not some hypotheses.

You keep ignoring the fact that space is not made of anything, and you have not provide a single piece of evidence that something can physically influence space-I gave you evidences which definitely prove that space does not contract or expand, only the objects caught by planet's mass and gravity do-it's all about changing trajectories, but trajectories, but space has not been influenced in any way, this experiment is very easy to make on your own to check it out-you simply ignore everything, that is not the behaviour of a true scientist, it's behaviour of church people, who consider everyone stupid if they interpret experiments differently and see that space does not expand or contract in any way.
If you actually observe all thos experiments, you can actually see no change in space only in the objects paths and trajectories-that's the key-and everyone ignores this fact.
That's all.
 
I don't believe in anything
I often say that about my approach.
However you seem to believe there is no need to respect the scientific method in respect of models and theory.
you believe in Big Bang so much, you won't let it go, because you believe it too much;
I believe in scientific method and I have tried to point that out to you.
Personally there are aspects of the current model that I do not like, and I have raised them in this forum for discussion.
I find the theory of inflation difficult to accept because it does not fit my experience however that does not mean I will criticize the model as I do not have something better in mind.
I don't like the idea that we need dark matter but that is our current position.
By investigating inflation and dark matter we will learn more.
Both ideas may be better confirmed or they may be replaced but they won't be thrown out because I (or you for that matter) have a personal dislike.
and you attacked me much like the church attacked Galileo.
I don't think.
I have not suggested your post be removed or that you be put under house arrest.
There is little parallel between Galileo presenting physical observations and you presenting an unsupported personal opinion.
I cannot believe you are so blind, if you cannot accept different views and holes in your interpretations, than that is your problem, not mine.
You are being unnecessarily emotional.
I can entertain what you say without rolling over and accepting what you say as valid argument.
You have yet to present more than mere opinions in a manner that suggests you don't know what you are talking about.
Clearly you miss my point as to providing an alternative.
I would be happy to hear what you suggest as a model but all you do is criticize from a position that indicates a lack of understanding.
You say the maths is stupid in effect may I ask this?
Do you understand and competent in the math of GR or do you just know its stupid because you just think so.
And get it out of your head that I am attacking you because you are wrong.

Alex
 
If you actually observe all thos experiments, you can actually see no change in space only in the objects paths and trajectories-that's the key-and everyone ignores this fact.
That's all.
I know enough about spacetime and the many experiments to see that it has been evidenced and has been shown to be warped, curved, twisted etc in the presence of mass/energy, I know enough to realise the absolute fanatical extent you will stoop to to ignore the real evidence and substitute your own fairy tales, I know enough to realise, as I have told you, that you along with any other Tom, Dick and Harry, can claim and insinuate what you like on a public forum, I know enough to realise that you are a crank and pretty lax with the truth and facts, I know enough to realise that if you had anything of any concrete nature besides your continued rhetoric, you would really not be here, and I know enough to realise that is why you are in pseudoscience.
You have a good day, ya hear and Happy Solstice, merry Christmas and a Prosperous New Year!:D
 
I know enough about spacetime and the many experiments to see that it has been evidenced and has been shown to be warped, curved, twisted etc in the presence of mass/energy, I know enough to realise the absolute fanatical extent you will stoop to to ignore the real evidence and substitute your own fairy tales, I know enough to realise, as I have told you, that you along with any other Tom, Dick and Harry, can claim and insinuate what you like on a public forum, I know enough to realise that you are a crank and pretty lax with the truth and facts, I know enough to realise that if you had anything of any concrete nature besides your continued rhetoric, you would really not be here, and I know enough to realise that is why you are in pseudoscience.
You have a good day, ya hear and Happy Solstice, merry Christmas and a Prosperous New Year!:D

Again, form what I've seen, you and the rest of the mafia here are cranks because they believe everything they are told-for example-you don't have different opinions on what exactly all those experiments have proven and what exactly was proven/disproven.
I mean it's impossible that you don't have yiour own opinion that contradicts official, scientific opinion.

And I have shown you that interpretatons of these experiments are not correct, but wrong, again you should read why time dilation experiment with clocks that I posted on previous pages, does not prove that gravity affects time, it's actually totally opposite.

And you forget the fact that scientists always mix up space with everything else-there is no such thing as space in this universe since everything is made of matter and energy and energy fields.
You are forgetting next several facts: field is actually an aread of physical influence on physical environemt-for exmaple when you have a planet with great mass it has very large gravitational field that expands itself into space-but if you look at it, you never actually see that space is distorted in any way, because space is not a physical thing/concept, gravitational field exists in space, that's the main point here, when something that is made of matter or energy and/or has mass and gets close enough to gravitational field that has physical influence on everything that is made of matter and energy, but if there is no material/physical object, graviational field does not influence anything, the very fact you CAN NEVER ACTUALLY SEE THE SPACE DISTORTED/TWISTED/CURVED in all scientiic experiments-the only facts that are directly 100% observationally proven are that it is the paths/trajectories of anything that is created from matter and energy that gets curved/distorted/twisted-have you actually ever seen space being actually physically influenced by matter and energy in any experiment?

No, none did, no scientific experiment ever did, scientists made totally/absolutely false conclusions just because they saw the paths and trajectories of material/physical objects made of matter and energy, distorted/twisted/curved-they have never, ever actually directly seen space being distorted/twisted/curved, because is no anything physical it is not a material/physical object, true space is simply 100% empty void.
I cannot believe that none can actually understand these undeniable facts, I cannot understand what makes you so much blind, people.

And yes, merry Xmas and a happy, prosperous New Year, to You, to you and to your entire family.
 
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I often say that about my approach.
However you seem to believe there is no need to respect the scientific method in respect of models and theory.

I believe in scientific method and I have tried to point that out to you.
Personally there are aspects of the current model that I do not like, and I have raised them in this forum for discussion.
I find the theory of inflation difficult to accept because it does not fit my experience however that does not mean I will criticize the model as I do not have something better in mind.
I don't like the idea that we need dark matter but that is our current position.
By investigating inflation and dark matter we will learn more.
Both ideas may be better confirmed or they may be replaced but they won't be thrown out because I (or you for that matter) have a personal dislike.

Regarding space time and inflation, read my last answer that I have shown some mistaked of scientists to paddoboy down above:
http://www.sciforums.com/threads/th...-the-western-world.158483/page-9#post-3424869

We cannot investigate something that does not exist and cannot bve proven, this is like chasing ghosts, and none here believes in existence of ghosts-and you criticize people to believe in such nonsense, you are no different.
Inflation cannot be true because of the facts regarding space I wrote to paddoboy-click and read the link, it is the last post here.
This is not about experience it's about common sense and logic, and not taking into accounts all the facts, so scientists create their own pseudo-facts that are non-existent, that's the problem with mathematics and its models, they are not real, much like singularity is not, neither is dark amtter, dark energy, inflation or universe expanding-and yet it does not expand into anything-that last one is simply not possible it completely beats the very core of the Big bang model-I cannot believe why you people cannot understand this, you are like Borg without even try to think and explain otherwise with more rationality and logic based on the real world explanations and not based on some abstract pseudo-explanations/pseudo-interpretations, just because they are scientists it doesn't mean they are right at all (and histoy is full of examples where all the dominanst scientific structures academics were 100% wrong), actually it is 100% irrefutable that they are wrong when they start to throw out abstract and imaginary pesudo-explanations that completely and absolutely exclude real-world explanations/interpetations-which are the only ones that that are truly correct ones, because the irrefutable facts are something material/physical/real cannot be explained with something abstract, only material/physical/real can explain material/physical/real phenomenons that are made/created of/out of physical/real influences of matter, energy, energy fields, forces and everyhting else that is physical and real.

Another reason is that I cannot understand how can you not question such explanations, I used to talk with scientists and with these open questions-and guess what although they wanted to answer me, they did not know the answer, basically they answered, physics is still trying to solve such problems, of course their ego and your own ego will not allow you to admit that you are wrong, when I know that I'm wrong, I admit it, but this I cannot admit something that is based on abstract mathematical fairy tale, again this is not a scientific method, it is pure mathematical religious movement without caring what holes were shown by people with critical thinking, it's like religion as simple as that.

I don't think.
I have not suggested your post be removed or that you be put under house arrest.
There is little parallel between Galileo presenting physical observations and you presenting an unsupported personal opinion.

You are being unnecessarily emotional.
I can entertain what you say without rolling over and accepting what you say as valid argument.
You have yet to present more than mere opinions in a manner that suggests you don't know what you are talking about.
Clearly you miss my point as to providing an alternative.
I would be happy to hear what you suggest as a model but all you do is criticize from a position that indicates a lack of understanding.
You say the maths is stupid in effect may I ask this?
Do you understand and competent in the math of GR or do you just know its stupid because you just think so.
And get it out of your head that I am attacking you because you are wrong.

Alex

That's the problem you think, you believe...., there is a great parallel between me or anyone else who is trying to penetrate the veil of scientific religion; you are forgetting the fact that also Galileo was put under the same crankism process in the same way I was on this forum, he had very little to start with and yet he was right after all.

What you don't understand is that I know and i do understand how exactly these experiments are explained, and I have shown that these explanations are simply wrong if you include abstract concepts as pseudo-explanations.

My opinion is not unsupported because it is bnased on facts that scientists often forget, you/scientists just don't want to accept alternative explanations that can be true as well as the offical, down-to-earth, logical and rational (based on what we can directly observe) explanations/interpretations, you only accept abstract pseudo-explanations/misinterpretations that have not place in reality, since they do not exist (like gravity "influencing" space abstract misinterpretations), you cannot explain physical phenomenons with abstract entities that do not exist, you can only CORRECTLY EXPLAIN THEM with explanations that are directly visible in physical reality-meaing they are real.

Part of these reason is r+simply realigion disguised as science, but part of this is the fact that scientists, who wants to say and give more correct explanations will lose their fundings if they start beating Big Bang hypothesis or all other scientific hypotheses for that matter.

Mathematics is stupid if you create abstract concepts that do not exist in the universe-I was posting about this the last 7 pages, what part you don't understand?

No model, just facts, evidences (real-world evidences, no mathematical stupidities), rational and sceptical and logical interpretations of experiments, and not some abstract explanations like space is influenced and time is influenced by gravity-which I have shown and 100% irrefutably 100% proven in the last answer to paddoboy that space is not influenced by gravity, by using real-world interpretations and not some abstract non-existent misintepretations that do not exist in a real universe.

Yes, I get emotional about thes eubjects often-and this is why I rarely post on forums, becaus eI general do not have time to post every single thing, since a half of what I write none wants to read-which is another form of religious totalitarism form the side of scientists, but that's because people do not think with their own head when scientists show them experiments, I ask a lot of time, ans scientists a lot of time cannot answer many of my questions, which ends up in undermining their own explanations which are abstract, not real.

If someone conducted experiment you would think the same as any other scientist, you cannot imagine that their pseudo-explanation which is too abstract is wrong and that is the problem, there is no progress in such uniformity of explanations, plus not to mention that they are wrong, since I always search for the holes in hypotheses such as the Big bang hypothesis.
That's all.
 
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Right, well so long as you make clear this is "potential" in the literary, rather than scientific sense, everyone can be happy.
Point well taken; I used the word in the generic sense.
po·ten·tial

ADJECTIVE
  1. having or showing the capacity to become or develop into something in the future:
    "a two-pronged campaign to woo potential customers"
    synonyms:
    possible · likely · prospective · future · probable · latent ·
    [more]
    inherent · undeveloped
NOUN
  1. latent qualities or abilities that may be developed and lead to future success or usefulness: "a young broadcaster with great potential" ·
    "the potentials of the technology were never wholly controllable"

  2. synonyms:
    possibilities · potentiality · prospects · promise ·
    [more]
    capability · capacity
    • (potential for/to do something)
      the possibility of something happening or of someone doing something in the future:
      "the crane operator's clear view reduces the potential for accidents" ·

      [more]
      "pesticides with the potential to cause cancer"
  3. physics
    the quantity determining the energy of mass in a gravitational field or of charge in an electric field.
Powered by Oxford Dictionaries · © Oxford University Press
"Potential" in the scientific sense has a far more specific meaning, viz. the potential energy per unit charge or mass due to the presence of a field, as a function of location in space. This would be nonsensical in the context in which you are using it, as space is not defined before the Big Bang.
Yes I agree, in physics the word has a specific meaning and it falls to me to clarify the context.]
 
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that's the problem with mathematics and its models, they are not real,
Who said they are real?
They are models.
Our attempt to describe reality in a meaningful form.
How else can you describe reality?
universe expanding-and yet it does not expand into anything-
Why is that so important to you?
We observe that it is expanding just as the model predicts does it matter?
just because they are scientists it doesn't mean they are right at all (and histoy is full of examples where all the dominanst scientific structures academics were 100% wrong),
I don't think scientists claim they are right all the time and why would they they are only interested in presenting models and testing them.
actually it is 100% irrefutable that they are wrong when they start to throw out abstract and imaginary pesudo-explanations that completely and absolutely exclude real-world explanations/interpetations-which are the only ones that that are truly correct ones, because the irrefutable facts are something material/physical/real cannot be explained with something abstract, only material/physical/real can explain material/physical/real phenomenons that are made/created of/out of physical/real influences of matter, energy, energy fields, forces and everyhting else that is physical and real.
That is only your opinion, an opinion that you can not back up.
You are very emotional and overlook including facts in support of your claims.
your own ego will not allow you to admit that you are wrong,
Can you point to something that I have posted that is wrong because I don't think I have taken any stand on anything, your emotion has carried you away and you only think I have said something wrong and clearly I have not.
My opinion is not unsupported
Without getting emotional show me your facts as so far you have not offered any facts. And that is a fact.
CORRECTLY EXPLAIN THEM with explanations that are directly visible in physical reality-meaing they are real.
So show me how you explain all you reject this way.
I always search for the holes in hypotheses such as the Big bang hypothesis.
That's all.
And that would be a good thing but you need to understand the model before you can offer meaningful comment.
You need to come up with something significant really.
The only place in my view is the expansion aspect.
Can you show the universe is not expanding and you need more than bluster .. Can you point to observations that indicate the universe is not expanding?

Thank you for talking so much time to reply to my post I do enjoy reading what you have to say and will try and help you any way I can.
Alex
 
You keep ignoring the fact that space is not made of anything, and you have not provide a single piece of evidence that something can physically influence spacec
No, that's not true, you are as usual telling a porky pie as do most cranks.
I certainly agree that space, time, and spacetime are not anything physical, but that does not mean it isn't real and its effects cannot be measured, which of course they can.
Are you blind or you don't know the difference between physical influences and something that cannot be influences by anything-where exactly are these contradictions,
The contradictions are obvious to any normal logical thinking human being.
you just don't like read answers I post, and this is why you really don't understand anything I write, or you simply ignore those posts and don't understand anything.
:rolleyes: You flatter yourself. I really don't give a stuff as to what your dreams and thoughts are, as I have told you, they mean nothing in the greater scheme of things, and will like all pseudoscience fade into oblivion.
I'm just simply informing you that that's all they are....your dreams, your thoughts, all unsupported, and all uncredentialed.
I already provide evidences wher enone wants to read them-again this is what happens when you go agains the church or any other academic organization these days.
You provide nothing other then your word salad, emotive rhetoric, that means SFA and like all crankdom, your only outlet for such nonsense are public forums.
What part of the dimensionless singularity, inflation, dark matter, dark energy, and space and time as abstracts concepts that can be curved and twisted by something physical like gravity are all just mathematical abstractions that do not exist and will never exist and can never exist in the real world you don't understand-these are all facts, not some hypotheses.
:) So you keep confidently saying. Yet you remain ignorant of the experimental and observational evidence supporting such concepts, and simply keep falling back on your own emotional driven ignorance, just because you fail to understand. :rolleyes:
You keep ignoring the fact that space is not made of anything,
No, that's just another of your emotional driven porky pies. I know as do most scientists that just because space, time and spacetime are not physical, does not mean they are not real. Is this all you have? to keep falling back so emotionally with lies?
and you have not provide a single piece of evidence that something can physically influence space-
:)The third porky pie so far: You are doing well. :rolleyes:
GP-B and aLIGO, as well as other Satellite probes, have shown that spacetime is warped, curved, twisted in the presence of mass/energy.
I gave you evidences which definitely prove that space does not contract or expand, only the objects caught by planet's mass and gravity do-it's all about changing trajectories, but trajectories, but space has not been influenced in any way, this experiment is very easy to make on your own to check it out-you simply ignore everything, that is not the behaviour of a true scientist, it's behaviour of church people, who consider everyone stupid if they interpret experiments differently and see that space does not expand or contract in any way.
And your ignorant emotionally charged rhetoric continues. :rolleyes:
Spacetime again, is bent, curved, warped and twisted in the presence of mass/energy......The fact that light that traverses at "c" [not "C" as you ignorantly claim] and follows geodesics [or the shortest path in curved/warped spacetime] should explain that which you seem to deny.
If you actually observe all thos experiments, you can actually see no change in space only in the objects paths and trajectories-that's the key-and everyone ignores this fact.
That's all.
Space, time, spacetime are not physical, and like a magnetic field [which you agree to be real] are obviously not seen to be warped, curved and/or twisted. The fact that the light we see from gravitationally lensed objects, the fact that the Lense Thirring effect has been confirmed by GP-B as well as other Satellites, and the fact that light follows geodesics in curved spacetime, shows that these effects are a result of the gravity that is exhibited when the geometrey of flat spacetime is changed in anyway.
That's all! ;)

PS: Oh, other then to say that all that you claim with such emotional certainty, is analogous to you pissing into the wind: You should try that experiment. ;) :p:D
 
Again, form what I've seen, you and the rest of the mafia here are cranks because they believe everything they are told-for example-you don't have different opinions on what exactly all those experiments have proven and what exactly was proven/disproven.
I mean it's impossible that you don't have yiour own opinion that contradicts official, scientific opinion.
:D:p:rolleyes:
Ahhh, the old conspiracy card again followed up with the old river like quote, "why can't you think for yourself"! :)!
Let me explain in words of two syllables or less......You, and I do not have access to the myriad of scientific instruments and probes on Earth, in orbit and beyond orbit......You and I would in fact not be able to interpret such data.....you and I do not have the expertise, or credentials to even be able to form any logical opinion on such data.
BTW, as I have told another crank many times, who is at present having a holiday, I have read the book, "The BB Never Happened" by Eric J Lerner, and have had it critiqued by two professionals.
It's great to keep an open mind, and its great to be able to think for yourself: But please don't have your mind that opened that your brains fall out, and to reject logical explanations, and the mainstream interpretation of evidence, just for the sake of being able to say you can "think for yourself" is sometimes dumb, particularly when you lack the professionalism, the credentials and the access to state of the art equipment...not just dumb, but real dumb! :rolleyes:
On your fall back re Galileo and the rebuke and persecution he recieved, that was in a time when the church did control thinking, and you should really remember, as applying to yourself, that while in that era 350 years ago, they laughed at Galileo, you should remember they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.
 
No, that's not true, you are as usual telling a porky pie as do most cranks.
I certainly agree that space, time, and spacetime are not anything physical, but that does not mean it isn't real and its effects cannot be measured, which of course they can.

At least you admit that space and time are not physical, the very fact they are not physical should make to think once again to check this once and for all, if something is abstract it cannot be influenced by physical/real by any means, I have shown above reasons and facts that everyone ignores them.

The contradictions are obvious to any normal logical thinking human being.

:rolleyes: You flatter yourself. I really don't give a stuff as to what your dreams and thoughts are, as I have told you, they mean nothing in the greater scheme of things, and will like all pseudoscience fade into oblivion.
I'm just simply informing you that that's all they are....your dreams, your thoughts, all unsupported, and all uncredentialed.

I'm simply saying the truth, if you cannot tolerate for someone to have different interpretation-and because of that fact, I'm simply wrong, and you don't even want to think that interpretations that are given to use from experiments are wrong, not even the slightest-why to trust someone like this, because they ar scientists, as long as scientists keep their explanations in the area of real and physical and not abstract.

You provide nothing other then your word salad, emotive rhetoric, that means SFA and like all crankdom, your only outlet for such nonsense are public forums.

:) So you keep confidently saying. Yet you remain ignorant of the experimental and observational evidence supporting such concepts, and simply keep falling back on your own emotional driven ignorance, just because you fail to understand. :rolleyes:

That's a saying for someone who is not willing to even try tot hink otherwise and give alternate explanations with physical/real interpretations without going into abstract, I cannot believe that you have no critical opinion on anything at all when it comes to science, there is much of the history that science does not investigate what it does not fit into hypothesis-heck, the fact is evidences always adapt to mathematical hypotheses and all other forms of hypotheses, and the other way around like it should be-the is the very same case with space and time experiments.
No academic science has ever been right in anything when they investigate, only lonewolves that are ejected from science community were the ones who were actually able to create new reolutions in science-that is what history has shown.

No, that's just another of your emotional driven porky pies. I know as do most scientists that just because space, time and spacetime are not physical, does not mean they are not real. Is this all you have? to keep falling back so emotionally with lies?

And I demand evidences and interpretations from you that scientists prove that space and time are affected by physical things-I already explained above, why this is wrong, the devil is always in details, details that scientists either liberately miss on purpose or just because they follow mathematical religion.

:)The third porky pie so far: You are doing well. :rolleyes:
GP-B and aLIGO, as well as other Satellite probes, have shown that spacetime is warped, curved, twisted in the presence of mass/energy.

I saw those experiments, and I knwo for sure that the explanations I gave above actually confirm everything I said:
It's not about space, it's about gravitational field and the material objects in this case gyroscopes-what they have actually shown is that gyroscopes have changed positions in the vicinity of powerful gravitational field-and this what I've been saying all alone in the above post: material/physical objcets, all 4 gyroscopes have changed their paths/trajectories, and NOT the space they exist and move in, gravitational field is responsible for that so-called "space dragging", but space itself was not affected in any way, on any level-that is what all of these experiments have shown.
Gravitational field has as limits of area on how much it can affect material/physical forms of matter and energy.
Just look at those graphs and pictures:
https://einstein.stanford.edu/highlights/status1.html


And your ignorant emotionally charged rhetoric continues. :rolleyes:
Spacetime again, is bent, curved, warped and twisted in the presence of mass/energy......The fact that light that traverses at "c" [not "C" as you ignorantly claim] and follows geodesics [or the shortest path in curved/warped spacetime] should explain that which you seem to deny.

I explained and I have 100% proven why space is not warped/curved/twisted here and in the prevuious post, and I have also proven that time is not affected at all, because it was disproven that clocks are not evidences of anything at all-this is something you did not even want to read, yep scientists are priests and the science is religion, you cannot accept of scientists being wrong in any way on any level-they are like gods to you:
Read this post:
http://www.sciforums.com/threads/th...-the-western-world.158483/page-6#post-3424642

Space, time, spacetime are not physical, and like a magnetic field [which you agree to be real] are obviously not seen to be warped, curved and/or twisted. The fact that the light we see from gravitationally lensed objects, the fact that the Lense Thirring effect has been confirmed by GP-B as well as other Satellites, and the fact that light follows geodesics in curved spacetime, shows that these effects are a result of the gravity that is exhibited when the geometrey of flat spacetime is changed in anyway.
That's all! ;)

Yes, but both light and magentic fields are created of matter and energy that have physical influence on everything that is physical-not abstract, magnetic fields exists in a real world-just use the damn magnets.if there was no magnetisim/magnetic force/field, magnets would not touch and fix to the metal, EM field of Earth would not be able to counter solar wind-these are all real physical phenomen and physical influences-and magentic field does not affect space, it only affects matter and energy, the same way as gravitational fields do-facts.
I already explained above, twice, why GB-P, LIGO and all other experiments with satellites have 100% proven that space itself is not affected by mass/gravity/gravitational field, but only things and objects and their paths and trajectories that are created out of matter and energy are all affected by large mass/gravity/gravitational fields.

PS: Oh, other then to say that all that you claim with such emotional certainty, is analogous to you pissing into the wind: You should try that experiment. ;) :p:D

Told the by the person who is blind, and does not want to read anything that comprimises science and scientific misinterpretations-another 100% proven 100% facts.
That's all.
 
:D:p:rolleyes:
Ahhh, the old conspiracy card again followed up with the old river like quote, "why can't you think for yourself"! :)!
Let me explain in words of two syllables or less......You, and I do not have access to the myriad of scientific instruments and probes on Earth, in orbit and beyond orbit......You and I would in fact not be able to interpret such data.....you and I do not have the expertise, or credentials to even be able to form any logical opinion on such data.
BTW, as I have told another crank many times, who is at present having a holiday, I have read the book, "The BB Never Happened" by Eric J Lerner, and have had it critiqued by two professionals.
It's great to keep an open mind, and its great to be able to think for yourself: But please don't have your mind that opened that your brains fall out, and to reject logical explanations, and the mainstream interpretation of evidence, just for the sake of being able to say you can "think for yourself" is sometimes dumb, particularly when you lack the professionalism, the credentials and the access to state of the art equipment...not just dumb, but real dumb! :rolleyes:
On your fall back re Galileo and the rebuke and persecution he recieved, that was in a time when the church did control thinking, and you should really remember, as applying to yourself, that while in that era 350 years ago, they laughed at Galileo, you should remember they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.

And how do you know that Lerner is wrong, have even listened to their conversation, who says Lerner is wrong and think about them-I mean, you cannot believe someone just because he/she is mainstream cosmologist-another evidence for cosmological church, because Lerner was creating hypotheses that mainstream cosmological religion doesn't want to hear about it, without giving any explanation at all-I mean we still live in the dark ages, where every single hypothesis that does not belong to mainstream cosmological religion becomes a crackpotism-well, that is irrefutable evidence that mainstream cosmological religion is the one who is full of cranks/crackpots.
You cannot have open mind if you cannot understand or you don't want to understand what the other side wants to say to you, and the main question is do you even understand what the other side want s to explain you-you obviously do not understand me, neither are the others, or perhaps you just don't want to understand anyone who is saying something against mainstream cosmological religious movements.

The same thing Galileo was suffering with Chruch, history repets itself every single day from the day medern science was created.
Don't put Galileo in your posts, because youare the one who is defending church, not me, I'm the one who is attacking the church.

If you think that this approach is correct, than why do scientists get angry every time some unexplanable phenomenons are explained with hypotheses that belong to the realm of supernatural-and yet sicentists are doing the same thing with their own experiments since they mix up abstract and physical explanations?
Shame on you, scientists, and because of these facts people like me I considered as crackpots who belong pseudoscience, shame on you all.
Scientists, you are hypocrites.

Because the fact is everything that is physical can be and is explanable with physical expanations, everything that is abstract is explanable only with abstract explanations, the only reason we cannot explain some mysteries is because we do not know enough, we know to little and our devices and experiments are not powerful and suitable enough to detect everything we want to be detected, that's why we don't know anything about anything, except for some minor facts, like the one we already know and that are 100% proven.
 
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Who said they are real?
They are models.
Our attempt to describe reality in a meaningful form.
How else can you describe reality?

The problem is that scientists are everthing, but meaningful, rational and logical-they have proven this to us so many times.

Why is that so important to you?
We observe that it is expanding just as the model predicts does it matter?

It doesn't mean anything to me, it means for the science, if science will lie to itself and say that the universe is expanding and it is not expanding anything into-that si simply wrong, and it's not science at all, this does not belong to science.

I don't think scientists claim they are right all the time and why would they they are only interested in presenting models and testing them.

OK, and that's the source of my criticism, models are worthles if they cannot explain anything without using abstract pseudo-statements.

That is only your opinion, an opinion that you can not back up.
You are very emotional and overlook including facts in support of your claims.

Oh, it is backed up by zillions of real-world experiments with ral-world interpretations and by direct, real-world, observational evidences that had been done in the past, and I have 100% proven above why misinterpretations of gravity influencing space and time experiments are simply wrong-you will say they are not, but you don't even try to understand anything at all, you don't even want to listen, one thing is to listen and understand, and it is completely other thing to listen and still not understand, or you you just don't want to read anything at all, like blindman Paddoboy..

If you think that this approach is correct, than why do scientists get angry every time some unexplanable phenomenons are explained with hypotheses that belong to the realm of supernatural-and yet sicentists are doing the same thing with their own experiments since they mix up abstract and physical explanations?
Shame on you, scientists, and because of these facts people like me I considered as crackpots who belong pseudoscience, shame on you all.
Scientists, you are hypocrites.

Because the fact is everything that is physical can be and is explanable with physical expanations, everything that is abstract is explanable only with abstract explanations, the only reason we cannot explain some mysteries is because we do not know enough, we know to little and our devices and experiments are not powerful and suitable enough to detect everything we want to be detected, that's why we don't know anything about anything, except for some minor facts, like the one we already know and that are 100% proven.

Can you point to something that I have posted that is wrong because I don't think I have taken any stand on anything, your emotion has carried you away and you only think I have said something wrong and clearly I have not.

I explained in the previous sentence.

Without getting emotional show me your facts as so far you have not offered any facts. And that is a fact.

So show me how you explain all you reject this way.

Do you even read my post at all, read my replies to Paddoboy, especially the last 2, if you don't believe me.
http://www.sciforums.com/threads/th...-the-western-world.158483/page-9#post-3424932
http://www.sciforums.com/threads/th...-the-western-world.158483/page-9#post-3424869
http://www.sciforums.com/threads/th...-the-western-world.158483/page-9#post-3424931

And that would be a good thing but you need to understand the model before you can offer meaningful comment.
You need to come up with something significant really.
The only place in my view is the expansion aspect.
Can you show the universe is not expanding and you need more than bluster .. Can you point to observations that indicate the universe is not expanding?

I did come up with something significant which others do not understand or don't want to udnerstand or simply do not want to hear about it, like Paddoboy.
Read the last 2 posts/answers to Paddoboy.

Thank you for talking so much time to reply to my post I do enjoy reading what you have to say and will try and help you any way I can.
Alex

Yeah right, just another waste of time from my side....
 
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I did come up with something significant which others do not understand or don't want to udnerstand or simply do not want to hear about it, like Paddoboy.
Well I must confess I don't understand.
I know you don't like the big bang.
I know you can't understand scientific models.
I would like to see something in support of your position which I don't see at all.
You avoided addressing my thoughts on presenting observations that may support non expansion of the universe.
I am sorry I do not think you have made a case either in your posts to me or to Paddoboy if you can't offer facts you have nothing.
Alex
 
Well I must confess I don't understand.
I know you don't like the big bang.
I know you can't understand scientific models.

I don't like the Big Bang, yes, but I do understand scientific models, what I specifically do is that I look for holes and inconsistencies in those hypothetical models, and if there is such thing no model should be considered as something that we can rely on.

I would like to see something in support of your position which I don't see at all.
You avoided addressing my thoughts on presenting observations that may support non expansion of the universe.
I am sorry I do not think you have made a case either in your posts to me or to Paddoboy if you can't offer facts you have nothing.
Alex

I did not avoid, don't worry, I was simply writing that I cannot understand why you consider model reliable if it is wrong about saying that universe is expanding, and yet is not expanding into anything.
The only possible reason is that you might not understand at all, basically I would have to show on my own, but since we are on the net, that might not be possible, I was successful in explaining to my collegeus and since I'm a member of amateur astronomic society in my town, I'm with right people.
Well, than I'm truly sorry if 'm not clear enough, bu the fact is all those facts and experiments are simply misinterpreted, ok not all of them, but the one regarding gravity, space and time and quantum mechanics.

The main question did you even read those links I gave to you and to Paddoboy in my last answer to you, or you didn't even look at it, and second in the first link there is nice explanation why measuring with clocks it's not any evidence that time is changing by gravitational influence, you ignore those facts and intepretations as well, you simply accept those explanations that you like more, because they are sceintific but also they are more mysterious, while I'm offering the real-world explanations, and show what abstract pseudo-explanations miss to take into account, and which is why such abstract pseudo-explanations are 100% proven to be simply wrong.

Interesting, Galileo had the same problems with the church and did not make a case to a church not understanding what he was saying to them.
 
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I'm a member of amateur astronomic society in my town, I'm with right people.
I am also interested in astronomy.
I am a member of an astronomy forum.
But astronomy is not cosmology.

I used to rant the same as you in the early days but I would listen to those who stopped to help.
And because I listened they continued to help.
Personally I don't like many aspects of the big bang but I try to learn.
What I have learnt is so much of what critics say is simply wrong because they are uninformed.
I like to think of the current model as a work in progress.
Just remember a boat can have a lot of holes but can still float.
To sink the big bang you have to show there is no expansion until you can show that the observations of expansion are flawed you have nothing.
That is the key stone in the theory.
How to do that... If you are into astronomy and a thinker you could work it out if you know sufficient about the observations in support of an expanding universe.
I could tell you but it can be your quest.
You will not arrive at how to do this whilst you simply rant emotionally and confine your activity to hand waving.
Alex
 
You are partly right, it is unverifiable truth or lie.
IMNSHO Big Bang is the biggest joke on science followed by inflation. I think inflation is a bigger joke.
 
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