Asperger's Syndrome

[Futilitist]

What is your connection with Loren Soman that you alone know this? What documentation is there?
Here is a resume posted in May, 2011: http://www.creativehotlist.com/Individuals/details/173897
And this September 2012 post has the byline "Off the Keyboard of Futilitist Loren Soman": http://www.doomsteaddiner.org/blog/2012/09/02/the-tempest-in-the-oil-drum/

I am a psychologist. I have Apserger's syndrome. I am working on a book about Loren Soman and his theories.

I created the September 2012 post that has the byline "Off the Keyboard of Futilitist Loren Soman", as part of my effort to assume his identity. This is related to some experimental work I have been doing to test some of Loren Soman's ideas in social theory and social psychology. I cannot, at this point, reveal any more detail about this part of my project until it is complete.

The Loren Soman resume you found online is real. But here is the most recent work experience listed on that resume:

http://www.creativehotlist.com/Individuals/details/173897

EXPERIENCE

KEITH RIVERS FILMS
July-October 2010 Seattle, Washington
Animator for "Mac and 7" Microsoft Commercial Series
Animation, set building, puppet fabrication
* Developed a novel animation technique using hot glue to produce realistic water effects.
* Developed animation rigs that simplified production resulting in improved quality and cost savings.

I know that Loren Soman is dead because his best friend and former Hollywood collaborator, Tim Lawrence, told me so. Tim was in possession of all of Loren Soman's personal effects, including his voluminous writings, which I now have. I occasionally pull quotes from those.

Loren Soman was a semi well known Asperger's polymath, but he led a very troubled life. Although his intellectual talents made it possible for him to achieve some success, he was always extremely isolated socially. He seems to have suffered a severe emotional breakdown in early 2005 and began to withdraw completely from society. In 2009, he went to Jacksonville, Fla. to stay with Tim Lawerence. But he left shortly thereafter and ended up at the Alderleaf Wilderness College near Seattle, Wa, where he studied primitive living skills. He believed very strongly that the world was coming to an end. He apparently wandered off into the woods, in the middle of winter, and he has never been seen since. He is listed as missing, presumed dead.

Aside from having an interesting biography, I believe that Loren Soman's theories concerning the evolution of the human species may be revolutionary. Especially his "Dark Thesis". I am here to see how people react to his theories.

Your unsupported allegations aside, my case is still open, counselor.

Perhaps the character being judged is just bad?

This seems highly legalistic to me. Am I on trial here? Are you the judge?

Futilitist's behavior, when combined with his earlier post: and his ad hominem attacks on the neurotypical: strongly suggest that he has nothing to contribute to this forum except for trolling and therefore I shall treat him as if he were banned by Moderation.

It seems to me that you would like the moderators to ban me. It seems to me that you started out with that attitude from your very first post directed at me.

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?129474-A-question-from-a-new-member/page2 see post #23

This new "evidence" you bring up is just your latest excuse. And your first post toward me also contained a lot of detailed background research about me. Why are you so interested in me? Do we know each other from somewhere?

---Futilitist

 

[Futilitist]

Duplicate post. Same bug issue again.

 

[Futilitist]

"There's a Syne post up ahead" ---Rod Serling, The Twilight Zone

Thanks for the reference, Trooper.

Children with Asperger’s syndrome are usually brutally honest and speak their mind.
Their allegiance is to the truth, not people’s feelings. They may have to learn not to tell
the truth all the time. While honesty is a virtue, peers at this stage are starting to tell
white lies so as not to hurt friends’ feelings, or to express solidarity and allegiance to
friendship by not informing an adult of the misbehaviour of a friend. Such behaviour
may appear immoral and illogical for a child with Asperger’s syndrome, who is willing
to informthe teacher ‘who did it’ and that a friend has made a stupid mistake. This is not
a recommended way to make or keep friends. -“The Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome” by Anthony Attwood​

This confirms that the honesty of an aspie, compared to a neurotypical, is only a result of their lack of empathy, and that they are the only ones likely to see their behavior as morally superior.

That is the most twisted interpretation possible. You are showing your obvious prejudice against Aspies once again. Have you learned nothing here?

---Futilitist

 

[Futilitist]

Perhaps you could answer me.

Is this an asnwer to me without answering to me?

No.

---Futilitist

 

[Futilitist]

So, are you lying? Did you quote yourself or not? Is there a real Loren Soman, and if so, is he dead, or not?

1. So, are you lying?

No. Not to you. I was lying (more like misdirecting) to the folks at LATOC.

2. Did you quote yourself or not?

Not.

3. Is there a real Loren Soman, and if so, is he dead, or not?

There was one once, but he is dead.


Hope that clears things up.

---Futilitist

 

[Beer w/Straw]

No.

---Futilitist

Coward.

 

[Futilitist]

Whatever

Coward.

Whatever. I was answering someone else, hence my answer. You are a mysterious little pussy cat.

I don't remember what your question was.

---Futilitist

 

[Syne]

Children with Asperger’s syndrome are usually brutally honest and speak their mind.
Their allegiance is to the truth, not people’s feelings. They may have to learn not to tell
the truth all the time. While honesty is a virtue, peers at this stage are starting to tell
white lies so as not to hurt friends’ feelings, or to express solidarity and allegiance to
friendship by not informing an adult of the misbehaviour of a friend. Such behaviour
may appear immoral and illogical for a child with Asperger’s syndrome, who is willing
to informthe teacher ‘who did it’ and that a friend has made a stupid mistake. This is not
a recommended way to make or keep friends. -“The Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome” by Anthony Attwood​

This confirms that the honesty of an aspie, compared to a neurotypical, is only a result of their lack of empathy, and that they are the only ones likely to see their behavior as morally superior.

That is the most twisted interpretation possible. You are showing your obvious prejudice against Aspies once again. Have you learned nothing here?

No interpretation needed, as that is what it literally says (bolded). Have you not learned to support your claims?

 

[Futilitist]

No interpretation needed, as that is what it literally says (bolded). Have you not learned to support your claims?

Brilliant. It is a total waste of time to even talk to you.

---Futilitist

 

[Syne]

Brilliant. It is a total waste of time to even talk to you.

Yes, throw a tantrum instead of even attempting to support your accusations.

 

[Futilitist]

Yes, throw a tantrum instead of even attempting to support your accusations.

This thread is about Asperger's syndrome. I have supported all of my claims. The only thing I am accusing you of is being a troll. The evidence is all over this thread and every other one you participate in. Many others on this site also think you are a troll. Case closed.

Please stop polluting this thread. Thank you.

---Futilitist

 

[Syne]

Futilitist's behavior, when combined with his earlier post and his ad hominem attacks on the neurotypical strongly suggest that he has nothing to contribute to this forum except for trolling and therefore I shall treat him as if he were banned by Moderation.

I am forced to agree that this is probably the best course of action.

 

[Futilitist]

Beer w/Straw, I went back through the thread. Was this your question?

What would Bruno do if he had the access to knowledge as you do now?

So, do you want me to write an essay on that?

OK. He may have realized that the truth was not worth his life. He may have compromised with the church so as to live to fight another day. But he was more stubborn than me, and his newfound knowledge may not have made a difference to him in terms of the principle of the situation, or the outcome.

This is all hypothetical, of course, and assumes that Bruno did not understand his situation accurately. I think he probably did.

---Futilitist

 

[James R]

Futilitist, what motivates you for this thread?

That's an interesting question to consider.

As far as I can tell, Futilitist is trying to claim that people with Asperger's syndrome are superior to "neurotypicals" in some general sense. And, to some extent at least, spidergoat seems to have jumped on the same bandwagon.

Suppose that, as claimed, those with Asperger's really do have vastly superior technical skills (to take one example that has been put forward). Perhaps they all have the potential to be great computer programmers, say. Does that then mean that we'd prefer a society full of Aspies (I hope the term isn't considered an insult) to one that is dominated by great poets or great childcare workers (for example)?

When we all head for the stars - something that will never happen, by the way - we might need some highly skilled technical people to drive the spaceships. But will we also need some carers, some game-show hosts, some great actors, and some gifted teachers?

It's admirable to talk up one's personal skills and strengths. If you're good at concentrating, then good for you (and good for those who benefit from your amazing powers of concentration)! But you don't need to simultaneously dismiss the skills you don't have as worthless or useless. Nobody is good at everything, and most people don't actually want to be good at everything.

One more point - a person with Asperger's, who does not truly appreciate the nuances of interpersonal interactions, may very well regard good interpersonal skills as a waste of effort. To some extent, they don't even comprehend why such things matter at all. So, it is natural that they regard other skills, such as "technical" skills as more important or useful.

So, perhaps it's a waste of time trying to argue Futilitist out of his belief that his particular personal orientation is superior to that of the majority of "neurotypicals". He probably is actually incapable of understanding what value there is in the "neurotypical" mind.

 

[Syne]

Very succinct summary of the thread, James. I agree. Aspies would only become favored in such fictitious worlds as Asimov's Solaria in The Naked Sun. But then in such a world no one values anyone else, which is why it would be fitting for aspies who lack empathy. Technology still has a long way to go before people are no longer dependent on one another.

 

[wynn]

The idea of "lack of empathy" is problematic as such.
It's not empathy that makes us behave in a certain way. It's our system of beliefs and values.

People from different cultures or different religions may easily be perceived as "lacking empathy," when in fact, they simply have a different system of beliefs and values.

Arguably, it's the selective lack of empathy that makes it possible for humans to act at all; as otherwise, empathy for all would be overwhelming, paralyzing.


The concept of empathy is sometimes used from the perspective of trying to explain human morality as a matter of neuro-physiological givens, as opposed to conceiving of it as a matter of philosophical givens.

Trying to explain human morality as a matter of neuro-physiological givens is an example of thinking that morality is objective, absolute, the same for all people and the same obligatory for all.

 

[Futilitist]

That's an interesting question to consider.

As far as I can tell, Futilitist is trying to claim that people with Asperger's syndrome are superior to "neurotypicals" in some general sense. And, to some extent at least, spidergoat seems to have jumped on the same bandwagon.

Suppose that, as claimed, those with Asperger's really do have vastly superior technical skills (to take one example that has been put forward). Perhaps they all have the potential to be great computer programmers, say. Does that then mean that we'd prefer a society full of Aspies (I hope the term isn't considered an insult) to one that is dominated by great poets or great childcare workers (for example)?

When we all head for the stars - something that will never happen, by the way - we might need some highly skilled technical people to drive the spaceships. But will we also need some carers, some game-show hosts, some great actors, and some gifted teachers?

It's admirable to talk up one's personal skills and strengths. If you're good at concentrating, then good for you (and good for those who benefit from your amazing powers of concentration)! But you don't need to simultaneously dismiss the skills you don't have as worthless or useless. Nobody is good at everything, and most people don't actually want to be good at everything.

One more point - a person with Asperger's, who does not truly appreciate the nuances of interpersonal interactions, may very well regard good interpersonal skills as a waste of effort. To some extent, they don't even comprehend why such things matter at all. So, it is natural that they regard other skills, such as "technical" skills as more important or useful.

So, perhaps it's a waste of time trying to argue Futilitist out of his belief that his particular personal orientation is superior to that of the majority of "neurotypicals". He probably is actually incapable of understanding what value there is in the "neurotypical" mind.

James R,

Good observations. I set up this thread to show that Asperger's syndrome is highly misunderstood. It is very clear from the interactions on this thread that I am largely correct. Hopefully everyone has learned something so far. I definitely have.

I think that the wide range of differences in individual humans are what give our species it's amazing adaptability. Every human, Aspie and Neurotypical alike, is valuable for what they can contribute. Besides, I think the Asperger's trait is more widespread in the species than the currently accepted dogma would have us believe.

I do regard the neurotypical emphasis on socialization as largely a waste of time and effort. It is often difficult for neurotypicals to appreciate this because intense socialization is just the way things are done. They rarely stop to think about it or even notice.

I am very interested in this part of your post:

When we all head for the stars - something that will never happen, by the way - we might need some highly skilled technical people to drive the spaceships. But will we also need some carers, some game-show hosts, some great actors, and some gifted teachers?

I agree that humans will not head for the stars. Can you explain why you think this is true?

---Futilitist

 

[Futilitist]

Very succinct summary of the thread, James. I agree. Aspies would only become favored in such fictitious worlds as Asimov's Solaria in The Naked Sun. But then in such a world no one values anyone else, which is why it would be fitting for aspies who lack empathy. Technology still has a long way to go before people are no longer dependent on one another.

The bolded part of your statement is bigoted. Aspies do not lack empathy. They have a different kind of empathy than Neurotypicals. I can understand and appreciate neurotypical empathy. You seem to have a problem extending your Neurotypical empathy to include understanding and appreciation of Aspies.

---Futilitist

 

[Syne]

Very succinct summary of the thread, James. I agree. Aspies would only become favored in such fictitious worlds as Asimov's Solaria in The Naked Sun. But then in such a world no one values anyone else, which is why it would be fitting for aspies who lack empathy. Technology still has a long way to go before people are no longer dependent on one another.

The bolded part of your statement is bigoted. Aspies do not lack empathy. They have a different kind of empathy than Neurotypicals. I can understand and appreciate neurotypical empathy. You seem to have a problem extending your Neurotypical empathy to include understanding and appreciation of Aspies.

If you honestly wish to avoid what you perceive as "hostile posts", you should seriously consider avoiding unfounded accusations. There is nothing "bigoted" about the well-known fact that aspies are lacking in empathy. It is a major diagnostic criteria. Notice that I did not say aspies were "devoid" of empathy. So your accusation is a straw man, at best, and inflammatory trolling, at worst. Remind me. Who was just making accusations about that as well?

Understanding AS does not necessitate attributing to it any special value.


You should note that I left you alone, only for you to start in again with unfounded accusations to troll me.

 

[Futilitist]

If you honestly wish to avoid what you perceive as "hostile posts", you should seriously consider avoiding unfounded accusations. There is nothing "bigoted" about the well-known fact that aspies are lacking in empathy. It is a major diagnostic criteria. Notice that I did not say aspies were "devoid" of empathy. So your accusation is a straw man, at best, and inflammatory trolling, at worst. Remind me. Who was just making accusations about that as well?

Understanding AS does not necessitate attributing to it any special value.

You should note that I left you alone, only for you to start in again with unfounded accusations to troll me.

You did not leave me alone. You just made your bigoted, inflammatory comment, and I just responded to it by noting that it is a bigoted comment. It may be a major diagnostic criteria, as you say, but it is still, nonetheless, a bigoted position, reinforced by the neurotypical majority. I want that attitude in the world to change. That is why I started this thread. When you accuse someone of lacking human empathy, you are in effect saying that they are not human. That is very hurtful and demeaning. If you can't appreciate that perspective, then it is you who clearly lack empathy.

I believe that your posts are degrading not only to me and all autistics, but to this very forum itself. Your posts serve no positive value whatsoever and simply serve to lower the discourse.

And your posts began with unprovoked hostility, which I have pointed out before.

You are impossible for me to deal with. I am now asking James R to step in and moderate on this point.

---Futilitist