Asperger's Syndrome

[elte]

What does anyone think of this part of the original post?

---Futilitist

It touches upon why some folks with autism prefer not to spend brainpower on socializing.

 

[elte]

Are people with Aspergers superior?

Not necessarily, they have different strengths and weaknesses compared to most other folks.

 

[Futilitist]

Not necessarily, they have different strengths and weaknesses compared to most other folks.

That is the right way to look at it, I think. The weaknesses can be very debilitating but the strengths can be quite profound.

From: http://www.rdos.net/eng/asperger.htm


A Controversial statement:

The Jesus story is a myth about an earnest, barefooted, rag wearing, Aspergers autistic with a co-morbid oppositional defiant personality disorder, and a classic, overbearing Jewish mother, who is duped by 12 disciples into "leading" them in their political struggles with the Romans! He is an idiot who pays for this mistake with his life.*

Now the serious theory that makes the above statement plausible. Practically certain, actually. (IMHO)

http://www.neanderthalproject.com/?tag=aspergers-syndrome

THE NEANDERTHAL THEORY OF AUTISM

There have been numerous theories put forward to explain autism, Asperger’s Syndrome, ADHD and Tourette’s Syndrome. These theories are most compelling when applied to a narrow range of behavior or deficits. Such theories tend to fall apart or at least become less compelling when the attempt is made to widen their scope and apply them to larger ranges of behavior and deficits found on the autism spectrum. It is argued here that the fundamental problem inherent in existing theories is that they presume that individuals who present autistic and related behaviors and deficits are “disordered”, when in fact the case may be made that such individuals are fully functional. It is in the areas of cognitive and behavioral adaptations which are species-specific that autism is found, such as nonverbal communication, emotional empathy, social organization, motor skills, sensory acuteness, sexuality, physical traits and biological adaptations. It is here argued that the DNA diversity in modern humans of Eurasian descent is consistent with the introgression of Neanderthal genes into the human genome through interbreeding. Firstly, fossil record indicates humans and Neanderthals living side by side for thousands of years in these regions. Secondly, the genes positively associated with autism have now been identified in the group of genes recently introduced through interbreeding with Neanderthals. Lastly, some of the behaviors and sensitivities of those on the autism spectrum make sense in the context of a cold-adapted species such as Neanderthal.

...

Cognitive difference

Advances in the understanding of autism in recent years has led to a new appreciation of cognitive differences in humans and a few in the field of archaeology are beginning to look again at its potential role in the development of human social structure and innovation. The role of autism has been overlooked in the study of human prehistory due to the fact that its diagnostic criteria focuses strongly on extreme and antisocial behavior associated with it, and thus individuals with autism are typically regarded as being “outside” of society. However, autism is a spectrum of cognitive differences rather than a single condition and in recent years the study of high-functioning individuals diagnosed to be on the autism spectrum, particularly those diagnosed with Asperger’s Syndrome, has led to the understanding that such individuals, while cognitively different from the majority of the population, are not significantly excluded from social interaction. Indeed, such individuals can use language effectively and are often relatively successful in life. Those who are diagnosed with Asperger’s Syndrome are unable to feel empathy, or the appropriate emotion in relation to the feelings of another. Such individuals may still be considered socially competent because they are able to predict behavior, using a rule-based method which more or less works. Although such individuals may think differently, they may not behave in extremely different ways as they are able to learn and modify the set of rules they use to predict behavior and are willing to discuss what constitutes an acceptable rule.

Individuals with Asperger’s Syndrome are typically gifted in terms of pattern recognition and in determining predictability in complex systems. This particular gift gives them the ability to provide original insight. Their unique cognitive gifts, when coupled with their tendency to shun social interaction, their hunger for learning, and a tendency towards single-mindedness to the point of obsession makes them uniquely suited to driving innovation in the arts and sciences. It may very well be the case that people with Asperger’s and other high-functioning autism may be playing a crucial role in society, and that they have been since prehistory.

Recent attempts to determine the number of people on the autism spectrum in the UK have produced a number between 0.9% and 2%, which is consistent with similar studies in other populations.

While it is clear that individuals on the autistic spectrum think differently than the rest, there are competing theories regarding its underlying neurological basis, including decreased function in mirror neurones and differences in high-level neural connections. In general terms, however, autism is most often characterized as a failure to develop a Theory of Mind, which is the ability to intuit the beliefs and intentions of other people. Despite such deficits, the individual with Asperger’s Syndrome can often negotiate through social interactions by relying on a rule-based system for determining which responses are expected.

That having been said, it is in intimate social relationships where the individual with Asperger’s is at a greater disadvantage. Such individuals are unable to empathize with the feelings of others or develop a genuine emotional rapport, thus they are unable to invest in another’s feelings and well-being. Emotional rapport is an essential ingredient in all intimate social bonds, and it is essential to development in early childhood. Reciprocal emotional bonds are also important in adulthood, forming a critical component of love, remorse, and compassion – the glue which holds society together. These complex emotional ties allow us to regularly sacrifice our time, energy, money, and even our own safety on behalf of others.

Individuals with Asperger’s Syndrome behave differently in social relationships in two important ways. In the first case, such individuals remain oblivious to the nuance of humor and subtle emotional cues which pass among people in ordinary situations. They can detect rhythm and patterns, but cannot effectively join in this mode of communication. Secondly, such people are motivated by different goals than neurotypical people, and report that they derive pleasure or satisfaction from creative breakthroughs or in bringing their ideas to life in the real world, either as inventions or technical innovations, or works of art, etc.. Those with Asperger’s Syndrome, like neurotypicals who suffer from attachment insecurities, are not a part of the network of caring in a community. Such networks are composed of people for whom compassionate action and altruistic behavior bring satisfaction. Sadly, the individual with Asperger’s Syndrome has no such compulsions. In fact, one of the criteria for diagnosing historical figures with Asperger’s Syndrome has been the failure of such figures to adequately care for the vulnerable or infirm within their own intimate social circle.

The combined talents and motivations of individuals with Asperger’s Syndrome often lead them to make significant advances in the arts and sciences. Such individuals seem to be drawn towards academia, engineering, computer science, and even politics. Indeed, there are many important historical figures representing these fields and others who have been retroactively diagnosed with Asperger’s Syndrome, leading us to reconsider the social role played by such people.

*It is reasonable to speculate that those with Asperger’s Syndrome have occupied analogous social roles since prehistoric times. “Difference” in ways of thinking is often accepted and may have resulted in specialized roles in small communities. It is easy to imagine how such individuals may have excelled in producing technology or understanding natural systems, and their obsessive focus might result in exceptional hunting or tool making skill. Difficult or controlling people who are not particularly empathetic may have been used to negotiate with other groups or to ruthlessly employ force to control the behavior of others. Having a distinctly different mind may have conferred a certain spiritual status upon such people in prehistory, as well.

Autism is highly heritable, and some research suggests that preferential mating between like-minded people with Asperger’s Syndrome may explain the maintenance of autism in the general population, and it appears that such unions may be generating more extreme forms of autism in their offspring. This contingency is supported by evidence of high rates of autism amongst engineers and their families, and in particular those who work in information technology. Furthermore, there are geographical hot spots of severe autism at Cambridge, MIT, and Stamford. There are other factors which help to maintain autism, however, such as the potential for success and achievement for people with “a dash of autism” which is sometimes translated into an attractive social status. Autism, then, is sometimes advantageous to those who possess the genetic basis for it and is being maintained in populations through diverse means.

It is clear that autism and autistic individuals may have played a significant role in evolutionary history, from both a biological and cultural perspective. Autism and other cognitively based differences in mind may have a more crucial role in modern society and in its historical precursors than we have so far allowed, if only because our modern perspective of cognitive difference as a “defect” precludes our ability to conceive of it. Certainly, the evidence is strong enough to warrant a reappraisal of the history of humanity through this lens.

...

Some researchers doubt whether Neanderthals and modern humans could have produced viable or even fertile offspring, and point towards the genetic separation of the two ancient lineages who were isolated for 700,000 years. However, there exist examples of other mammals which have evolved along separate and isolated lines for much longer and which yet are able to produce both viable and fertile offspring, though the relative success in each of the examples may vary. The problems met in interbreeding separate lineages do not imply that it is impossible to produce offspring, but rather that such offspring would likely suffer in terms of reproductive success. The recently decoded genome of a Neanderthal male’s thigh bone has confirmed the presence of genes compatible with the modern human genome such that 1-4% of the genetic material of non-Africans is thought to have been acquired from Neanderthals. There are also skeletal remains in the fossil record in Portugal and in Romania which some researchers believe to be examples of hybrid children.

...

Archaeological Evidence

The archaeological evidence tells us that Neanderthals consumed “prey” which was at the peak of its usability, which is not consistent with the behavior of other carnivores. The animals which Neanderthals “hunted” are today typically domesticable animals, and the preoponderance of the evidence is consistent with Neanderthal pastoralism. For example, their woodworking industry would be consistent with the building of fences and shelters, their skeletal remains reveal injuries consistent with those of rodeo bull-riders, they used flutes and whistles which could call animals, the domesticable animals eaten in their prime by Neanderthals appear to have “speciated” during the Neanderthal era, and it is known that Neanderthals would have required a high-protein diet to sustain their lifestyle and their massive frames.

According to some research, the type of early modern human which has been called Cro-Magnon did not originate in Europe, but in Asia. It is argued that the origin of Aurignacian industry is in Central Asia and in Eastern Europe. Modern humans in Eastern Europe began using Neanderthal technology gradually, unlike later populations of early modern humans in Western Europe. This suggests that modern humans hijacked Neanderthal technology and improved upon it.

Argument from Geography

Successful hybridization between early humans and Neanderthals would have been very rare, and the offspring of such unions would likely be back-bred into either of the parent populations, where visible traces would disappear within 3-4 generations. Caucasians, American Indians, and Asians present a statistically higher prevalence of autism than the Afro-American population, which might be expected if successful hybrids from the overlapping population zones in Western Asia expanded away from Africa. Caucasians spred from this region into the Far East, Australia, and the Americas. This hybrid genetic contribution did not make its way back into Africa apart from three notable exceptions. These three events are Neanderthal’s expansion into the Levant during the beginning of the last glacial period, the Arabic emigration from the Middle East, and European colonization. Early modern European humans show genetic evidence of a lot of inbreeding, which has been misinterpreted by some who suggest that this constitutes evidence against the possibility of fertile offspring arising from mating between them and Neanderthals. A larger variation in advantageous genes in Eurasian populations is good evidence which supports hybridization. Furthermore, these genes are local to Western Asia and Europe, and do not appear in Africa. Finally, in areas where hybridization occurred is where the record of innovation in material culture is most intensely expressed. The earliest known civilizations emerged precisely in these regions.

Music and Dancing

In Africa, music is associated with social rites and social bonding activities. This is evident still in “black” music in America, where music is used as a backdrop to the main theme of social relations. Complex instruments and music typify non-African music. The human voice and drum are the main instruments in African music, while the dances and music outside of Africa are more aimed at creativity and perfection. As far back as 100,000 years ago, Neanderthals were using phalange whistles, and flutes and whistles are found in abundance in association with Neanderthal artifacts from the Crimea, to Libya, and then in Divje Babe. The forms of flute and whistle found in the fossil record seem to have been slowly and steadily evolving until recently. It is likely that they originated with Neanderthals, but were adopted by anatomically modern humans or hybrids. It seems probable, considering the rest of the their suite of behaviors, that Neanderthals used them to herd livestock. In today’s herding societies, the tradition continues.

Medicine and Plant Use

In the Neanderthal burial site found in Shanidar, Iraq, a set of plants with medicinal applications was recovered. Among the plants found there were:

Muscari, which has been historically used to hide the human scent from prey.
Althea, which has anti-inflammatory properties.
Senecio, which retards bleeding and relieves menstrual cramps.
Achillea, which is an anti-diarrheal.
Centauarea, a stimulant.
Ephedra, a stimulant used for psychoactive purposes. May have been used to artificially increase Neanderthal’s activity level.
Age and Maturation

Neanderthal children would have matured late, perhaps reaching full maturity as late as age 36. Additionally, Neanderthals would have lived relatively long lives; perhaps up to 100-150 years old. Slow ear development could be explained by a preference by Neanderthals for processing visual information more than verbal information, an assumption supported by the pronounced size of the Neanderthal visual cortex compared to that of anatomically modern humans. Neanderthal’s sloping forehead is best explained by his less advanced social system.

Genes of Special Interest

Throughout prehistory and even in the present, there have been great population bottlenecks, the greatest of which would have been the eruption of Toba in Indonesia around 74,000 years ago. The fallout from this catastrophic volcano eruption resulted in a worldwide fall in temperature of 3-5 degrees centigrade for years. Africa would remain the least affected, whereas the populations in Europe and Asia would have been greatly distressed and depopulated. The next major bottleneck primarily affected Europe during the last glacial maximum around 20,000 years ago, leaving populations who arrived in the Iberian Peninsula during the Neolithic relatively unaffected. The last major bottleneck exists today for the world’s remaining hunter-gatherer populations who are being displaced by farmers in various regions worldwide. These bottlenecks explain the largest genetic diversity in Africa and the smallest in Europe.

Historical bottlenecks in population densities necessitate the use of nuclear DNA for obtaining mitochondrial DNA and Y chromosomes, since nuclear DNA has larger effective population sizes. A study of Neanderthal nuclear DNA indicates that their lineage speciated around 706,000 years ago, and that introgression of Neaderthal DNA into anatomically modern humans would have occurred around 34,000 years ago.

Mitochondrial DNA

Small differences are present between the mitochondrial DNA of Neanderthals and modern humans, yet in a study which included 700 Eurasians and 240 Africans, all but one of the modern mutations found in their DNA were found in the mitochondrial DNA belonging to the youngest Neanderthal sample recovered in Russia. Interestingly, the older Neanderthal samples were more dissimilar to the modern human control samples, which is compatible with the hybridization theory.

Y Chromosome

Another study of modern humans finds Y-chromosome mutations occuring over 100,000 years ago, and which are not found in Africa. This is strong evidence for gene flow between modern humans and other archaic lineages, such as Neanderthals, Erectus, or both.

PDHA1

The gene known as PDHA1 shows two distinct classes or types. One of these types exists both inside and outside of Africa, but the other does not occur in Africa. The African version shows greater diversity, and the non-African version appears to have introgressed around 50,000 years ago. The common ancestor of both of these classes is over one million years old.

Hemochromatosis

This condition affects Caucasians higher than any other group, and is thought to have emerged at least 40,000 years ago in Ireland with a single ancestor. Hemochromatosis is a condition echaracterized by the accumulation of iron in the tissues, and the treatment for this condition is actually to lose blood. The close-quarters and confrontational style of hunting employed by Neanderthals would have resulted in bloodletting with some regularity, and therefore an adaptation which promotes more efficient iron absorption might be advantageous.

Factor V Leiden

This gene introgressed in populations in Northern Europe from 35,000-40,000 years ago. However, this time frame is incompatible with the record of modern human habitation, and it is concluded that it must have originated in Neanderthals.

Friedreich Ataxia

This gene is only found on a haplotype common in Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East, and it has been dated back to 10,000-25,000 years ago. This may be explained by a hybridization event occurring in Europe, whereupon it was subsequently transmitted to the Middle East and North Africa during the emigration out of Europe at the height of the last ice age. This gene is also associated with iron transport. Hybridization might have broken the gene complex, resulting in tissue damage due to oxidating free radicals.

ADHD – DRD4 VNTR

The gene complex associated with ADHD consists of two alleles – 4R and 7R. Both alleles are thought to be ancient, yet the estimated time of introgression for 7R is 30,000-50,000 years ago. This is consistent with the hybridization timeline.

Cystic Fibrosis

This is a very diverse genetic condition which emerged in the modern human genome 50,000 years ago in Europe. It is in some ways similar to Celiac and may be related to gluten intolerance. It is conjectured that the purpose of Cystic Fibrosis might have been a defense against infection and parasites. This disease is often associated with high levels of salt in sweat.

Rhesus Factor

RH negative blood is rare in native Americans, Asians, and Africans. However, it is found in 15% of Caucasians and possibly over 25% of the Basque population. If a new mother having a negative RH factor produces a fetus with RH positive blood, she will have potentially lethal autoimmune problems. This would have formed a barrier against back-breeding into the Neanderthal population. Over 50% of people with schizophrenia possess a negative RH blood factor, and there is a similar correlation with autism and Asperger’s Syndrome.

Skin Color, Hair Color, Freckles, Eye Color

The results of an ongoing survey distributed by the author of theory, in the form of a quiz, indicate a correlation between autism and red hair. Red hair and auburn hair are related to 3 mutations in a gene complex known as MC1R, and the mutations appear to be 50,000-100,000 years old. It is argued here that these traits were introduced by interbreeding with Neanderthals. The same quiz results indicate a strong correlation between autism and brown or hazel eyes. The MC1R appears to show that the last major change in pigmentation occurred around 1.2 million years ago; a period of time when there may have been as few as 14,000 breeding individuals. Human beings have been hairless at least since this time, which fits with the time of speciation between warm and cold adapted species. Nakedness was the beginning of a diverging evolutionary path between cold and warm adapted humans.

Phenylketonuria

This European genetic defect bears a sharp diagnostic resemblance to autism.

Huntington’s Disease

This disease originated in Western Europe, and is rare in Asians and in Africans. Interestingly, this disease protects against cancer and infectious diseases. If present in Neanderthal along with complementary alleles to guard against its adverse effects, it would go a long way towards explaining the long Neanderthal life span. It is conceivable that it may have played a role in allowing Neanderthals to hibernate.

Psoriasis

Another condition with a higher presence in people of European descent.

Multiple Sclerosis

This disease is also more highly represented in people of European descent, and its frequency increases along with latitude.

IgA, Celiac, Autoimmune Diseases, and Autism

Low levels of IgA are present in autoimmune diseases such as Celiac. Studies also confirm that individuals with autism have low levels of IgA. This condition is also known as gluten-intolerance, and its distribution in the population is also mostly within people of European descent. Neanderthals were carnivores, and did not have complexes for processing the gluten found in grains.

Further Reading

Some portions of this theory have been omitted for brevity. The reader is encouraged to read the source material directly for more details.

Ekblad, Leif. “The Neanderthal theory of autism, Asperger and ADHD.” www.rdos.net. N.p., 24 Apr. 2001. Web. 4 June 2010. <http://www.rdos.net/eng/asperger.htm>.

Hopefully this should generate some good discussion.


---Futilitist

 

[Beer w/Straw]

Hopefully this should generate some good discussion.

It wont.

So few words have been your own.

 

[Futilitist]

So?

It wont.

So few words have been your own.

I can say the same about you, kitten of few words!

I don't think your comment is at all valid, or useful in any way, and it seems more like just a distraction.

Hopefully people here can read articles that I link to, and a good discussion can grow from there. If not, what is the point of this forum?

---Futilitist

 

[Beer w/Straw]

I can say the same about you, kitten of few words!

I don't think your comment is at all valid, or useful in any way, and it seems more like just a distraction.

Hopefully people here can read articles that I link to, and a good discussion can grow from there. If not, what is the point of this forum?

---Futilitist

Um..

Type more of your own thoughts than posting articles.

 

[Futilitist]

Why?

Um..

Type more of your own thoughts than posting articles.

Why? Maybe you could give us an example.

---Futilitist

 

[Beer w/Straw]

Why?

Because it's a discussion forum.

Not a post-a-link forum.

 

[darksidZz]

I have Asperger's, however I never got real treatment for it although I would've liked it.

Basically I was able to participate in a study years ago to help find more out about my depression etc. and part of it was written, after which the results were given to me in a report. What it showed was I had demonstrated some Asperger's traits, but since it was a depression study the guy doing it didn't really care much. In the end my therapist never really got into helping me with it, he was pretty much not helpful IMO. Sometimes you could see his education when he would apply it, or mention something casually, but he never really knew what he was doing, once he told me to leave town if I didn't like it lol Crazy huh?

I've learned you can't always listen to people just because they say they are trying to help you, sometimes they're lazy or complacent and do nothing. I even stayed in a clinic for depression for like 2 weeks and this is where it should've been pretty obvious to them I had Asperger's, but they never did mention it (I didn't know it existed either back then). I told them noises were bothering me and everything was so loud it hurt, this was when I had terrible depression and I feel it weakened my coping mechanisms enough that the Asperger's traits really became noticable. I told them like 4 times, once to the nurse, once to the psychiatrist, once to another nurse, and once in a group class. Guess what? NO ONE mentioned that it was abnormal or offered some explanation for it, I was left confused and wondering why noises were causing me such pain (felt similar).

Later I read some good Abnormal psychology books the kind for college, and I learned that people with undiagnosed Asperger's at an early age develop coping mechanisms and as adults this makes it harder to diagnose and get treatment. Unfortunately that's the category I fell into, and yet....... sensitivity to noise is a primary sign of Autism in general and they were of no help to me.

I have pretty much decided I need to learn about this myself, after 3 years of therapy the therapist still didn't really work with my AS or help me much, oh well.

But this is how I learned that therapists and psychiatrists generally speaking will not help you, it has to be the right PERSON or else you're going to waste alot of time and money on nothing. You see it's the PEOPLE that become therapists and their methods that matter, any moreon can become a therapist or psychiatrist.

 

[Syne]

The list is supported in the article. Don't tell me how to write my original post.

Oh, you mean the link to the article that returns this 404 error:

Error 404

Information provided by Disabled World - Published: 2008-01-01

Sorry! The page you requested is no longer here.​

 

[Futilitist]

I have Asperger's, however I never got real treatment for it although I would've liked it.

Basically I was able to participate in a study years ago to help find more out about my depression etc. and part of it was written, after which the results were given to me in a report. What it showed was I had demonstrated some Asperger's traits, but since it was a depression study the guy doing it didn't really care much. In the end my therapist never really got into helping me with it, he was pretty much not helpful IMO. Sometimes you could see his education when he would apply it, or mention something casually, but he never really knew what he was doing, once he told me to leave town if I didn't like it lol Crazy huh?

I've learned you can't always listen to people just because they say they are trying to help you, sometimes they're lazy or complacent and do nothing. I even stayed in a clinic for depression for like 2 weeks and this is where it should've been pretty obvious to them I had Asperger's, but they never did mention it (I didn't know it existed either back then). I told them noises were bothering me and everything was so loud it hurt, this was when I had terrible depression and I feel it weakened my coping mechanisms enough that the Asperger's traits really became noticable. I told them like 4 times, once to the nurse, once to the psychiatrist, once to another nurse, and once in a group class. Guess what? NO ONE mentioned that it was abnormal or offered some explanation for it, I was left confused and wondering why noises were causing me such pain (felt similar).

Later I read some good Abnormal psychology books the kind for college, and I learned that people with undiagnosed Asperger's at an early age develop coping mechanisms and as adults this makes it harder to diagnose and get treatment. Unfortunately that's the category I fell into, and yet....... sensitivity to noise is a primary sign of Autism in general and they were of no help to me.

I have pretty much decided I need to learn about this myself, after 3 years of therapy the therapist still didn't really work with my AS or help me much, oh well.

But this is how I learned that therapists and psychiatrists generally speaking will not help you, it has to be the right PERSON or else you're going to waste alot of time and money on nothing. You see it's the PEOPLE that become therapists and their methods that matter, any moreon can become a therapist or psychiatrist.

I can relate to this personally. My father has Asperger's traits which everyone is aware of but him. I told him about my ideas concerning social collapse. He decided I needed "professional" help. I agreed to try what he had in mind (I actually used it as an opportunity to further test how people react to news of social collapse). The psychiatrist I ended up with told me I was suffering from a delusion. I brought reams of documentation to prove that the idea was valid. After a couple of weeks, the psychiatrist changed my "diagnosis" to "suffering from a debilitating thought" as a compromise, without really considering anything I had to say. The treatment she proscribed was the same in any case. Drugs. Abilify to be exact. It has terrible side effects. I was unable to concentrate on anything. I lost all enjoyment in studying, learning, and practicing my drums, etc. I stopped taking the drug after three days. I continued going to the shrink to please my father and my girlfriend at the time. I pretended to everyone that I was still taking the drug. For the next three months, everyone remarked how the treatment was having such a positive effect! My father continues to deny my Asperger's as well as his own. His issue stems from my Grandfather's obvious autism, and my father's inability to see the traits in himself. My ex girlfriend is now a big believer in my Asperger's diagnosis, especially now that she is working with a leading neuroscientist on a documentary about attachment theory.

It very much depends on who you see, as to whether you will ever get a good evaluation, let alone treatment or therapy. Behavioral therapy seems to be the only effective method. Good luck.

---Futilitist

 

[Futilitist]

Oh, you mean the link to the article that returns this 404 error:

Error 404

Information provided by Disabled World - Published: 2008-01-01

Sorry! The page you requested is no longer here.​

The link worked fine when I first wrote the post. I don't know why that link no longer works. I certainly didn't make up the list! I poked around the site and found another copy of the article in question. Here is a link:

http://www.disabled-world.com/artman/publish/article_2086.shtml

I fixed the link in the original post as well. Thanks for catching that.

---Futilitist

 

[Futilitist]

Take the Aspie Quiz

Many people on this forum are likely Asperger's. Take the Aspie Quiz to see if you might be one.

http://www.rdos.net/eng/Aspie-quiz.php

I just took it. Here is my score:

---Futilitist

 

[Syne]

The link worked fine when I first wrote the post. I don't know why that link no longer works. I certainly didn't make up the list! I poked around the site and found another copy of the article in question. Here is a link:

http://www.disabled-world.com/artman/publish/article_2086.shtml

Yeah, you failed to post this disclaimer:

NOTE: Also included are famous people for whom there is a lot of speculation that they have or had Aspergers Syndrome, but who may not have (or have had) Aspergers at all. -http://www.disabled-world.com/artman/publish/article_2086.shtml​

Take the Aspie Quiz to see if you might be one.

I knew the answer going in:

 

[Futilitist]

Yeah, you failed to post this disclaimer:

NOTE: Also included are famous people for whom there is a lot of speculation that they have or had Aspergers Syndrome, but who may not have (or have had) Aspergers at all. -http://www.disabled-world.com/artman/publish/article_2086.shtml​

Whatever. I tested the original link when I made the original post and it worked just fine. Perhaps they took it away since the DSM change announcement, I have no idea. If so, the duplicate article I found, in response to your first post about, might disappear as well. I have no control over this.

The disclaimer you are quoting above did not appear in the first article. I only fixed the link, not the whole post. You are being very nit picky, anyway, since there is no requirement that I post everything in an article. If I did that, why post a link at all.

Also, my original post does have this disclaimer...:

Speculated to have Asperger's Syndrome

...which is bolded and underlined. I think that is adequate. It is from the article I posted the first time. Give me a break.

You do have some commendable proof reading skills, though. For a neurotypical, I mean.

I knew the answer going in:

So did I.

---Futilitist

 

[Syne]

The disclaimer you are quoting above did not appear in the first article.

No way to verify that now.

 

[Futilitist]

What is your point?

No way to verify that now.

What is your point? I have no way to verify it either, since the original article has been pulled by the original site! It has nothing to do with me or anything I may or may not have done. You will just have to trust me on this. You are wasting everyone's time. There is nothing wrong with my original post. Please stop posting irrelevant garbage. Thank you.

This is a thread to discuss Asperger's syndrome in all it's facets. It is for human beings. If you have nothing worthwhile to add...

I can't believe that you can't see how ridiculous and rude your comments will appear to someone reading this thread. You are embarrassing yourself.

I am going to ignore you from here on out.

---Futilitist

 

[Syne]

I am commenting on the self-serving and apologetic belief in a "value" of AS. Have pride in what adversities you have overcome, but do not delude yourself into thinking it is anything more noble than a disorder.

 

[Read-Only]

I am commenting on the self-serving and apologetic belief in a "value" of AS. Have pride in what adversities you have overcome, but do not delude yourself into thinking it is anything more noble than a disorder.

While I agree in *general* principle with that, I do see some distinctive advantages in some cases and distinctive disadvantages in others.

In general, I view it in much the same way as I do talents. Or having (or not having) a special knack for something.

For example - some people are excellent at public speaking while others freeze up at the very thought. Some can take a chunk of rock and create a work of art while others can only make a pile of rubble.

Some autistic people can focus so tightly on a task that they can complete something so huge that others would not even attempt. While on the other hand, some autistic individuals are SO restricted by inadequate social skills that even if they solved all the mysteries of the universe they would be unable to pass it along to the world.

So it's much like every other aspect of life that , as I said in the beginning, it's a mixed bag of advantages and disadvantages. And in any particular individual, the balance between the two can tip either way.

 

[Futilitist]

While I agree in *general* principle with that, I do see some distinctive advantages in some cases and distinctive disadvantages in others.

In general, I view it in much the same way as I do talents. Or having (or not having) a special knack for something.

For example - some people are excellent at public speaking while others freeze up at the very thought. Some can take a chunk of rock and create a work of art while others can only make a pile of rubble.

Some autistic people can focus so tightly on a task that they can complete something so huge that others would not even attempt. While on the other hand, some autistic individuals are SO restricted by inadequate social skills that even if they solved all the mysteries of the universe they would be unable to pass it along to the world.

So it's much like every other aspect of life that , as I said in the beginning, it's a mixed bag of advantages and disadvantages. And in any particular individual, the balance between the two can tip either way.

I think that is a fair and balanced way to look at it. Asperger's syndrome clearly has it's good points and it's bad points.

But as evidenced elsewhere on this thread, there is considerable prejudice against Aspies. Neurotypical hatred of people with Asperger's syndrome goes back to the evolutionary beginning of our species. It is one of the oldest prejudices there is.

Also, much is made of the inability of Aspergeans to understand the social world around them. There is, of course, a lot of truth in that observation. But it is greatly amplified by the way that neurotypicals very often treat Aspies. It is very hard to figure out what is going on socially, if you are excluded from social interaction. Neurotypicals get together and talk about Aspies behind their backs. They gang up and make fun of them. They engage in vicious scapegoating of Aspies. Please check out:

http://www.wrongplanet.net/

There is a lot of prejudice built into the concept of theory of mind. Aspies are commonly referred to by Neurotypicals as lacking empathy. I think it is the other way around. Aspergeans have a kind of global empathy and earnestness that really should be appreciated. It is the same empathy and earnestness that is expressed by a very famous, though mythical, figure. Jesus.

Here is a humorous (i.e comedic) way to look at the gospels. I mean no offense by this, so, for anyone who might, please don't take any. I am an atheist who was born Jewish. Consider the source. Hey that could be construed to have a double meaning, couldn't it? Jeez, this disclaimer is funnier than the joke I am trying to set up. it is not even my joke anyway. But it isn't just a joke. It has serious meaning behind it, too, like any good humor should. Here goes.

"Jesus was an earnest, barefooted, rag wearing, Asperger's autistic with a co-morbid oppositional defiant personality disorder, and a classic, overbearing Jewish mother, who is duped by 12 disciples into "leading" them in their political struggles with the Romans! He is an idiot who pays for this mistake with his life."

---Loren Soman

---Futilitist