Asperger's Syndrome

[Futilitist]

This is a thread about Asperger's syndrome. It is widely misunderstood.

"The Asperger's autistic has about as much chance of telling a Neurotypical person how to think, as a Neurotypical person has of telling an Asperger's autistic how to act."

---Loren Soman

There is a wonderful synergy in the field of social robotics involving Asperger's syndrome. Aspergeans and other autistics are used to help test the design and effectiveness of social robots. I used to be involved in the design of software personalities for specialized social robots when I worked with roboticist Dr. David Hanson. These robots are used in universities for basic social robotics research, and also for research into therapeutic social robots for autistics. The reason for all the Aspergeans and Autistics in the field is that social robots must overcome the problem of the "uncanny valley" in order for the interaction to seem reel. Aspergeans, especially, are useful because they basically suffer a mirror neuron deficit which leads to the difficulty socializing. But in order to function socially at all, Aspergeans or "Aspies" as some prefer to be called, process their social cues in the neocortex, i.e. not automatically, as do "Neurotypicals", as Aspergeans like to refer to everyone else. Aspergeans must do consciously, what Neurotypicals do unconciously. Thus, Aspergeans, though handicapped in many ways, tend to notice aspects of human behavior that are often invisible to Neurotypicals. Aspergeans provide what philosophers refer to as the Philosophic ladder.

Disabled World - Disability News for all the Family: http://www.disabled-world.com/artman/publish/article_2086.shtml

"Asperger's syndrome has probably been an important and valuable characteristic of our species throughout evolution," (Attwood, 2006, p. 2).

People with Asperger's Syndrome are often described, as having social skills deficits, reluctance to listen, difficulty understanding social give and take, and other core characteristics, is typically quite misunderstood...

Speculated to have Asperger's Syndrome

Abraham Lincoln,1809-1865, US Politician
Alan Turing, 1912-1954, English mathematician, computer scientist and cryptographer
Albert Einstein, 1879-1955, German/American theoretical physicist
Alexander Graham Bell, 1847-1922, Scottish/Canadian/American inventor of the telephone
Anton Bruckner , 1824-1896, Austrian composer
Bela Bartok, 1881-1945, Hungarian composer
Benjamin Franklin,1706-1790, US polictician/writer
Bertrand Russell, 1872-1970, British logician
Bobby Fischer, 1943-2008, World Chess Champion
Carl Jung, 1875-1961, Swiss psychoanalyst
Charles Rennie Mackintosh, 1868-1928, Scottish architect and designer
Emily Dickinson, 1830-1886, US poet
Erik Satie, 1866-1925 - Composer
Franz Kafka, 1883-1924, Czech writer
Friedrich Nietzsche, 1844-1900, German philosopher
George Bernard Shaw, 1856-1950, Irish playwright, writer of Pygmalion, critic and Socialist
George Washington, 1732-1799, US Politician
Gustav Mahler, 1860-1911, Czech/Austrian composer
Marilyn Monroe, 1926-1962, US actress
H P Lovecraft, 1890-1937, US writer
Henry Cavendish, 1731-1810, English/French scientist, discovered the composition of air and water
Henry Ford, 1863-1947, US industrialist
Henry Thoreau, 1817-1862, US writer
Isaac Newton, 1642-1727, English mathematician and physicist
Jane Austen, 1775-1817, English novelist, author of Pride and Prejudice
Kaspar Hauser, c1812-1833, German foundling, portrayed in a film by Werner Herzog
Ludwig II, 1845-1886, King of Bavaria
Ludwig Wittgenstein, 1889-1951, Viennese/English logician and philosopher
Ludwig van Beethoven, 1770-1827, German/Viennese composer
Mark Twain, 1835-1910, US humorist
Michelangelo, 1475 1564 - Italian Renissance artist
Nikola Tesla, 1856-1943, Serbian/American scientist, engineer, inventor of electric motors
Oliver Heaviside, 1850-1925, English physicist
Richard Strauss, 1864-1949, German composer
Seth Engstrom, 1987-Present, Magician and World Champion
Thomas Edison, 1847-1931, US inventor
Thomas Jefferson, 1743-1826, US politician
Vincent Van Gogh, 1853-1890, Dutch painter
Virginia Woolf, 1882-1941, English Writer
Wasily Kandinsky, 1866-1944, Russian/French painter
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, 1756-1791, Austrian composer

And I would add another famous character, supposedly from history. Jesus.*

*---This last bit is likely to be somewhat controversial here. Please try not to overreact.

The list should also include Charles Darwin. And Isaac Newton.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...st-claims.html

Prof Fitzgerald said: "It is suggested that the same genes that produce autism and Asperger's syndrome are also responsible for great creativity and originality.

"Asperger's syndrome gave Darwin the capacity to hyperfocus, the extra capacity for persistence, the enormous ability to see detail that other people missed, the endless energy for a lifetime dedication to a narrow task, and the independence of mind so critical to original research."

Darwin was a solitary child – as many people with Asperger's syndrome are, Prof Fitzgerald said and his emotional immaturity and fear of intimacy extended to adulthood. He avoided socialising and took long solitary walks, walking the same route daily. He was a compulsive letter writer, but these were almost devoid of social chat.

Darwin was a great collector. As a child he hoarded insects and shells, and while at university he became obsessed with chemistry and gadgets.
Professor Fitzgerald said: "Darwin had a massive capacity to observe, to introspect and to analyse. From adolescence he was a massive systematiser, initially of insects and other specimens which he catalogued. He had a tremendously visual brain. He spent eight years studying barnacles, and wrote books on his observations of earthworms and even his own children. He was a rather obsessive-compulsive and ritualistic man.

"Creativity is extremely complex, and so far no theory or model of brain function has been able to explain it fully. But I hope that future progress in understanding the basis of autism may lead to a better understanding of autistic creativity and creativity in general."

http://bookclubs.barnesandnoble.com/...me/ba-p/379141

In February of this year, psychiatrist Michael Fitzgerald gave a lecture to the Royal College of Psychiatrists arguing that Charles Darwin suffered from Asperger's syndrome.

There is great evidence that that's true--including Darwin's narrow focus with detail; his tendency, even as a child, to hoard; and his difficulty with two-way conversation ("Darwin's books are much better than his conversation," the historian Thomas Buckle said after meeting him.).

I'm reading Darwin's Autobiography, diaries, and letters looking for evidence of a disorder. It is fascinating to follow in the tracks of a mind that's so unlike the ordinary mind. Darwin's devotion to detail is astounding. For instance, in between his trip on The Beagle at age 23 and the publication of Origin of Species, he took an intellectual detour into the world of barnacles. He only meant to write up a description of one strange barnacle he had discovered in South America, but a colleague urged him to describe the entire class of species. Darwin took on the task--spending eight years observing shells in museums, private collections, and the world around him, eventually mapping out a new and revolutionary typology in his A Monographof The Cirripedia (text here). His observations, made from the corners of museums and by the sides of rivers, changed the way history saw the animal. (See his attention to detail in an opening sentence: "Although the present volume is strictly systematic, I will, under the general description of the Lepadidæ, give a very brief abstract of some of the most interesting points in their internal anatomy, and in the metamorphoses of the whole class, which I hope hereafter to treat, with the necessary illustrations, in detail." )

As people with Asperger's pay attention to all sorts of details, their focus on the minute often affects their relationship to language, too. Children with Asperger's are often slow to start speaking, but they can eventually acquire bigger vocabularies than most of us.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histori...dered_autistic

Isaac Newton

Isaac Newton hardly spoke and had few friends. He was often so absorbed in his work that he forgot to eat, demonstrating an obsessive single-mindedness that is commonly associated with Asperger's. If nobody attended his lessons, he reportedly gave lectures to an empty room. When he was 50, he suffered a nervous breakdown brought on by depression and paranoia. After Newton's death, however, his body was found to contain massive amounts of mercury, probably from his alchemical pursuits, which could have accounted for his eccentricity in later life.

I remember reading somewhere that Newton died a virgin.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/5274.php

Here is advice for parents of Aspergeans:

http://www.yourlittleprofessor.com/benefits.html

Check out: http://www.wrongplanet.net/ to get an idea of what life is like for Aspergeans and what Aspergeans think of everyone else in the world.


---Futilitist

 

[Read-Only]

Just a note in passing: You might not be aware that the label "Asperger's" is no longer considered a separate diagnosis. Those who display that rather broad grouping of characteristics are now placed under the general label of "Autistic."

 

[Futilitist]

Just a note in passing: You might not be aware that the label "Asperger's" is no longer considered a separate diagnosis. Those who display that rather broad grouping of characteristics are now placed under the general label of "Autistic."

The inclusion of Asperger's syndrome in the autistic spectrum is, and has always been, controversial. It is still clinically diagnosed separately.

---Futilitist

 

[Read-Only]

The inclusion of Asperger's syndrome in the autistic spectrum is, and has always been, controversial. It is still clinically diagnosed separately.

---Futilitist

No, it most certainly is not. You haven't been keeping up to date. Here's one source:http://vitals.nbcnews.com/_news/201...pped-from-psychiatrists-diagnostic-guide?lite

And here's a quick quote from that article:

"The now familiar term "Asperger's disorder" is being dropped. And abnormally bad and frequent temper tantrums will be given a scientific-sounding diagnosis called DMDD. But "dyslexia" and other learning disorders remain.
The revisions come in the first major rewrite in nearly 20 years of the diagnostic guide used by the nation's psychiatrists. Changes were approved Saturday.
Full details of all the revisions will come next May when the American Psychiatric Association's new diagnostic manual is published, but the impact will be huge, affecting millions of children and adults worldwide. The manual also is important for the insurance industry in deciding what treatment to pay for, and it helps schools decide how to allot special education."

And note that was last Saturday, not today.

 

[Syne]

This thread is mostly Asperger apologetics. Do not expect any rational discussion.

 

[KilljoyKlown]

On Channel 7 news last night they said the alleged shooter Adam Lanza had asperger's syndrome. However I haven't seen anything in writing that confirmed that statement.

This is the first time I've ever heard that someone with asperger's could become violent.

 

[KilljoyKlown]

Okay this article make's reference to asperger's syndrome.

Portrait of a killer: What drove Lanza to embark on his murderous spree?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...to-embark-on-his-murderous-spree-8420460.html

 

[Futilitist]

Why should Asperger's be on the autism spectrum?

No, it most certainly is not. You haven't been keeping up to date. Here's one source:http://vitals.nbcnews.com/_news/201...pped-from-psychiatrists-diagnostic-guide?lite

And here's a quick quote from that article:

"The now familiar term "Asperger's disorder" is being dropped. And abnormally bad and frequent temper tantrums will be given a scientific-sounding diagnosis called DMDD. But "dyslexia" and other learning disorders remain.
The revisions come in the first major rewrite in nearly 20 years of the diagnostic guide used by the nation's psychiatrists. Changes were approved Saturday.
Full details of all the revisions will come next May when the American Psychiatric Association's new diagnostic manual is published, but the impact will be huge, affecting millions of children and adults worldwide. The manual also is important for the insurance industry in deciding what treatment to pay for, and it helps schools decide how to allot special education."

And note that was last Saturday, not today.

Also from http://vitals.nbcnews.com/_news/201...pped-from-psychiatrists-diagnostic-guide?lite

"Full details of all the revisions will come next May when the American Psychiatric Association's new diagnostic manual is published, but the impact will be huge, affecting millions of children and adults worldwide. The manual also is important for the insurance industry in deciding what treatment to pay for, and it helps schools decide how to allot special education."

And what is the case for putting Asperger's on the spectrum? The news stories seem a little vague.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=123527833

Instead of including a diagnostic category for Asperger's, the DSM 5 draft includes traits associated with Asperger's, such as difficulty with social interactions and limited, repetitive behaviors, in a broad category called autism spectrum disorder.

"The intent is to try to make the diagnosis of autism clearer and to better reflect the science," says Catherine Lord, director of the University of Michigan Autism and Communication Disorders Center. Lord is part of the group that decided to consolidate autism-related categories, including Asperger's.

But the change is going to be hard for some people with Asperger's, says Michael John Carley, executive director of the Global and Regional Asperger Syndrome Partnership in New York and author of Asperger's From the Inside Out. "I personally am probably going to have a very hard time calling myself autistic," says Carley, who was diagnosed with Asperger's years ago.

Many people with Asperger's take pride in a diagnosis that probably describes some major historical figures, including Albert Einstein and Thomas Edison, Carley says. Under the new system, those people would represent just one extreme of a spectrum. On the other extreme is "somebody who might have to wear adult diapers and maybe a head-restraining device. This is very hard for us to swallow," he says.

Blurred Lines From The Start

Since 1994, when the fourth edition of the DSM added the Asperger's category, health care professionals have struggled to find a way to separate Asperger's from autism, Carley says. "Every time they've tried to draw that line it's been proven false in practice," he says.

Right now, the diagnosis often hinges on a person's language skills. But that's pretty subjective and can change as a child grows up, researchers say. "The categories are just not used by clinicians in a reliable fashion," Lord says. A single category for autism spectrum disorder will let clinicians stop agonizing over which diagnostic category to put someone in and focus on their specific difficulties with communication, or social interaction, or information processing, he says.

"The categories are just not used by clinicians in a reliable fashion," Lord says.

Sorry, I had to repeat that. It made me laugh. I mean if the Lord says it, it must be true!

But then, off to the left side, I see this barely visible box of type (like, 50% grey on white, look at the article to see what I mean):

Reworking The Book Of Mental Disorders

When clinicians see a patient with mental health issues, part of their job is to determine if the patient is experiencing temporary emotional struggles or if the patient has an illness. To do this, doctors rely on the bible of psychiatry, a book called the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. The DSM lists all the mental disorders recognized by the American Psychiatric Association.

The book is also used by insurance companies to decide which treatments they'll pay for, and by courts to help determine insanity or other mental conditions. *

(* emphasis obviously mine!)

Yep, there's the answer, I'll bet. Money. Politics.

So, what exactly is the scientific case?

---Futilitist

 

[Futilitist]

Okay this article make's reference to asperger's syndrome.

Portrait of a killer: What drove Lanza to embark on his murderous spree?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...to-embark-on-his-murderous-spree-8420460.html

And John Wayne Gacy painted clown pictures. So what?

---Futilitist

 

[Read-Only]

Also from http://vitals.nbcnews.com/_news/201...pped-from-psychiatrists-diagnostic-guide?lite




And what is the case for putting Asperger's on the spectrum? The news stories seem a little vague.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=123527833



Sorry, I had to repeat that. It made me laugh. I mean if the Lord says it, it must be true!

But then, off to the left side, I see this barely visible box of type (like, 50% grey on white, look at the article to see what I mean):

(* emphasis obviously mine!)

Yep, there's the answer, I'll bet. Money. Politics.

So, what exactly is the scientific case?

---Futilitist

Hopefully you were sharp enough on that last quote to notice it was an "ALSO" use (the reference to insurance) - and NOT the primary purpose of the DSM.

 

[Futilitist]

Why put Asperger's on the autism spectrum?

Hopefully you were sharp enough on that last quote to notice it was an "ALSO" use (the reference to insurance) - and NOT the primary purpose of the DSM.

Dude, I am sharp enough to notice that you're dodging!

So, what exactly is the scientific case for including Asperger's on the autism spectrum?

---Futilitist

 

[Read-Only]

Dude, I am sharp enough to notice that you're dodging!

So, what exactly is the scientific case for including Asperger's on the autism spectrum?

---Futilitist

I'm not dodging anything - what's your problem?? I don't claim to be a psychiatrist. <shrug> But I do keep current on just about ALL the news of every type.

 

[Futilitist]

I'm not dodging anything - what's your problem?? I don't claim to be a psychiatrist. <shrug> But I do keep current on just about ALL the news of every type.

Just feeling a little jumpy these days. Sorry 'bout that.

Don't you think it is interesting the way the articles are written? They really don't give any good explanation for the change at all.

I still think it is about health care costs. That makes some sense. I couldn't find another reason, either.

---Futilitist

 

[Syne]

Hopefully you were sharp enough on that last quote to notice it was an "ALSO" use (the reference to insurance) - and NOT the primary purpose of the DSM.

Dude, I am sharp enough to notice that you're dodging!

So, what exactly is the scientific case for including Asperger's on the autism spectrum?

How about this?

Autism is a disorder of neural development characterized by impaired social interaction and communication, and by restricted and repetitive behavior. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism


Asperger syndrome (AS), also known as Asperger's syndrome or Asperger disorder, is an autism spectrum disorder (ASD) that is characterized by significant difficulties in social interaction, alongside restricted and repetitive patterns of behavior and interests. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome

(emphasis added)​

And that is ignoring the part about "autism spectrum disorder". Obviously AS shares significant diagnostic criteria with autism.

Don't you think it is interesting the way the articles are written? They really don't give any good explanation for the change at all.

That is very typical of DSM changes.

 

[Futilitist]

How about this?

Autism is a disorder of neural development characterized by impaired social interaction and communication, and by restricted and repetitive behavior. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism


Asperger syndrome (AS), also known as Asperger's syndrome or Asperger disorder, is an autism spectrum disorder (ASD) that is characterized by significant difficulties in social interaction, alongside restricted and repetitive patterns of behavior and interests. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome

(emphasis added)​

And that is ignoring the part about "autism spectrum disorder". Obviously AS shares significant diagnostic criteria with autism.

Put it on the spectrum if you want, I don't care. I didn't start this thread to argue about Asperger's.

That is very typical of DSM changes.

Why is that?

---Futilitist

 

[Syne]

Put it on the spectrum if you want, I don't care. I didn't start this thread to argue about Asperger's.

Then you probably should not open with a completely unsupported list of speculated Aspies.

They really don't give any good explanation for the change at all.

That is very typical of DSM changes.

Why is that?

Since it is difficult to define objective criteria for what a mental disorder is, the contents of the DSM are the result of a majority vote of the APA. - http://hamsnetwork.org/dsm/​

It is somewhat like expecting a good explanation for why a particular president was elected. You would have to poll voters for an explanation, and it is not likely to be very concise, uniform, or satisfying.

 

[Futilitist]

Then you probably should not open with a completely unsupported list of speculated Aspies.

The list is supported in the article. Don't tell me how to write my original post.

This is a thread to talk about Asperger's generally. I included lots of angles on the subject, not just famous people.

Go argue with someone else.

---Futilitist

 

[Futilitist]

This is a thread about Asperger's syndrome. It is widely misunderstood.

"The Asperger's autistic has about as much chance of telling a Neurotypical person how to think, as a Neurotypical person has of telling an Asperger's autistic how to act."

---Loren Soman

There is a wonderful synergy in the field of social robotics involving Asperger's syndrome. Aspergeans and other autistics are used to help test the design and effectiveness of social robots. I used to be involved in the design of software personalities for specialized social robots when I worked with roboticist Dr. David Hanson. These robots are used in universities for basic social robotics research, and also for research into therapeutic social robots for autistics. The reason for all the Aspergeans and Autistics in the field is that social robots must overcome the problem of the "uncanny valley" in order for the interaction to seem reel. Aspergeans, especially, are useful because they basically suffer a mirror neuron deficit which leads to the difficulty socializing. But in order to function socially at all, Aspergeans or "Aspies" as some prefer to be called, process their social cues in the neocortex, i.e. not automatically, as do "Neurotypicals", as Aspergeans like to refer to everyone else. Aspergeans must do consciously, what Neurotypicals do unconciously. Thus, Aspergeans, though handicapped in many ways, tend to notice aspects of human behavior that are often invisible to Neurotypicals. Aspergeans provide what philosophers refer to as the Philosophic ladder.


---Futilitist

What does anyone think of this part of the original post?

---Futilitist

 

[wynn]

There is a wonderful synergy in the field of social robotics involving Asperger's syndrome. Aspergeans and other autistics are used to help test the design and effectiveness of social robots. I used to be involved in the design of software personalities for specialized social robots when I worked with roboticist Dr. David Hanson. These robots are used in universities for basic social robotics research, and also for research into therapeutic social robots for autistics. The reason for all the Aspergeans and Autistics in the field is that social robots must overcome the problem of the "uncanny valley" in order for the interaction to seem reel. Aspergeans, especially, are useful because they basically suffer a mirror neuron deficit which leads to the difficulty socializing. But in order to function socially at all, Aspergeans or "Aspies" as some prefer to be called, process their social cues in the neocortex, i.e. not automatically, as do "Neurotypicals", as Aspergeans like to refer to everyone else. Aspergeans must do consciously, what Neurotypicals do unconciously. Thus, Aspergeans, though handicapped in many ways, tend to notice aspects of human behavior that are often invisible to Neurotypicals. Aspergeans provide what philosophers refer to as the Philosophic ladder.

Actually, I think anyone with any inclination for critical thinking should be able to do what people with Asperger's are here said to do.

Also, when one is dealing with difficult people situations at work, in the family etc. and wishes to change that, such as learn conflict resolution skills and such, then one has to learn to consciously observe and analyze human behavior and then make changes to one's own verbal and physical behavior - ie. turn off the auto-pilot and flay manually.

There is a fashionable term in psychology nowadays - mindfulness. It has a range of meanings, and one of them is to actually pay attention and notice what is going on, turning off the auto-pilot.
So in one sense, people are basically taught to do what some autists have been doing anyway.

 

[Beer w/Straw]

Are people with Aspergers superior?