Proposal: Quran detailing stuff impossible to know without modern scientific gear

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Scifes, spidergoat has first shot. If he's too busy at the moment, then it falls to me.

If I were you, I'd either PM or give him a couple days to respond.
 
Dywyddyr said:
Correct: and since Iceaura's participation is not mandatory then he can't be considered to have forfeited.
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what does it not being mandatory changy anything?

Or maybe I can challenge you to a game of chess, here at my flat.
If you're not here by 5 PM today I'll consider you to have forfeited and you owe me £5...
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yes i forfeit, and the 10$ is waiting for you on my porch till 5PM tommorow, if you don't take it by then i'll take it back.


The bold part is pure speculation on your part. And unwarranted.
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maybe...
 
scifes said:
what does it not being mandatory changy anything?
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It's quite simple: unless someone HAS to take part in something, or has already agreed to do so, then the word "forfeit" can't apply: otherwise, as my example with the chess match shows, you can apply it to anyone and everyone.
Did you forfeit the position of president of the US?
Did I forfeit the Nobel Prize for literature?
 
I'm pretty sure I forfeited one of those. I expect I can still work it into the CV.
 
scifes said:
spidergoat, geoffp, D, this is more than proving the thread title is true or not, it's holding members to the claims they make, in a thread dedicated to exploring said miracles in the quran, one comes by and boldly states that there are none in it (quoted in the op), that means nothing from one who haven't read the quran, but a devastating statement if he actually DID read it.. so i asked him..

he said he did, so i'm a liar then, i'm hoodwinking you all in what i say, cuz we both read it, our knowledge base is the same, but our claims are opposite.

so i challenged HIM.

and he forfeited, because life is short, because he didn't read the whole quran as he claimed, because he lied to my face..in front of you all.

as you can all see, from a personal POV, i'v lost interest as well, i've proved my real point, now, the secondary one, is it still worth it?

spidergoat and geoffp, i'll debate one of you.
james, are the outlines in #8 good enough?
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If you like, we can wait until I read the damn thing. But, I don't think it makes a difference. I will endeavor to understand the verses in context using the following translations:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/isl/index.htm
 
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scifes said:
because he didn't read the whole quran as he claimed, because he lied to my face..in front of you all.
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I have read the entire Koran, in English translation - although I admit to skimming the long sections of god-bragging and unbeliever-threatening, which sped things up considerably.
 
iceaura said:
I have read the entire Koran, in English translation - although I admit to skimming the long sections of god-bragging and unbeliever-threatening, which sped things up considerably.
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Ice - either that was unintentionally hilarious or you are a comedy genuis.

You made me spray coffee out of my nose :D
 
spidergoat said:
If you like, we can wait until I read the damn thing. But, I don't think it makes a difference. I will endeavor to understand the verses in context using the following translations:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/isl/index.htm
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so you want to read it first or should we start immediately? whatever suits you, defending the absence of something in a text you haven't read doesn't seem like a smart choice to me, but it's not totally out of line considering the place we're in.. so as you wish, wanna read it first or not is up to you...
so, what have you decided?
 
I don't think I really have to read the entire thing, I will be defending science and the nature of evidence, not the Quran, that's your task. Can we wait until next mon-tues? I have some stuff to do this weekend.
 
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spidergoat said:
I don't think I really have to read the entire thing, I will be defending science and the nature of evidence, not the Quran, that's your task. Can we wait until next mon-tues? I have some stuff to do this weekend.
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Spider - I dunno - perhaps you should read the whole thing.

That way you could perform some kind of meta-analysis.

Collaborate with Scifes to collate all of the claims in he Quran that might have something to say about nature or make scientifically testable predictions - work out if they are scientifically accurate or not - perhaps rank them in order of accuracy - then perform a statistical analysis to figure out what the likelihood of those being simply down to random chance (i.e say enough shit and some of it is bound to stick), or if there is a real trend of scientific accuracy throughout the whole book.

The onus is probably on the proposer to perform the analysis, but if you have read the book too, you could keep him honest and avoid accusations of cherry picking sections that only suit his viewpoint.
 
spidergoat said:
I don't think I really have to read the entire thing, I will be defending science and the nature of evidence, not the Quran, that's your task. Can we wait until next mon-tues? I have some stuff to do this weekend.
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i'm afraid not.."impossible to know whiteout modern scientific gear" relies alot about the time, place, "claimer" of the book...what was impossible to know for native Americans wasn't impossible to know for the Chinese or the Spanish, not..are you sure you wanna go on with this?
 
If I may semi-arbitrate, JamesR willing:

Spidergoat doesn't need to read the entire book. If there is any reasonable claim of divinely-inspired knowledge therein, then it should be detectable in a given passage, since such scientific aims must be driven by specific examples.

Moreover, no claim that I've ever seen expounds the predictive capacity of any book in toto, whether Nostradamus, the Apostles or Mohammed are the writers (clearly, word count arguments are excepted, but represent in their own right specific instances of evidence), and no claim by any Muslim authority that I'm aware of (Harun Yahya/Adnan Oktar included) uses the 'entire book' as an argument for its predictive ability.
 
for example, a guy in pre-Columbus north america said he's sent from god, and describes some creatures of god his book, which accurately depict the kangaroo or the panda..

but if i were you, i'd take this challenge right away, cuz i wouldn't be afraid to lose, it would either be proving my previous knowledge is correct, or gaining new knowledge, that way you can turn any debate into a win-win situation.
 
Scifes, he's already told you he's busy until Tuesday. I recommend that you respect his external demands, if you indeed respect the topic and your own argument.
 
yeah yeah no problem..i said nothing about that..
actually i might become busy by then, but the total time allowed is 3 days per post..i guess that would be enough even if one is busy..if we're not, as i said we might burn it out in about a day..
 
I thank you. Sorry if I came down a little hard. Sometimes I feel as though you have to bellow to be heard, which is very cynical in point of fact.

Sigh. It's just not like East Korea. What happened to the dream?
 
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