Yet another reason why Apple suck.

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Lucysnow said:
Now everything is as easy as 'Finder' and 'systems preferences'. Now I just drag files in documents and they don't get lost
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The average windows user never should have to access system preferences. Windows drag and drop is almost identical to macs. Search is just a key stroke away (Win F)..

If your mum can use a Mac she can use a Win PC. My mum (75) and dad (83) both have windows PC's. My mum uses it to control her sewing machine (not available for mac) email, photos. My dad loves video editing.

The only thing people need to learn about computers is the file system (files and directories) once you have that and can use a mouse and keyboard you can easily use a PC.

Both systems are just as simple, so why pay twice as much. Macs suck because they are an over priced fashion accessory.
 
Blindman said:
The average windows user never should have to access system preferences. Windows drag and drop is almost identical to macs. Search is just a key stroke away (Win F)..

If your mum can use a Mac she can use a Win PC. My mum (75) and dad (83) both have windows PC's. My mum uses it to control her sewing machine (not available for mac) email, photos. My dad loves video editing.

The only thing people need to learn about computers is the file system (files and directories) once you have that and can use a mouse and keyboard you can easily use a PC.

Both systems are just as simple, so why pay twice as much. Macs suck because they are an over priced fashion accessory.
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Well its a done deal now. Mum is using Mac problem free and now I can communicate while I'm away without resorting to long distance phone calls. I never said that PC's don't have similar features as Windows, I'm saying that figuring out how to use them without any glitches in my experience has been much better. I've had more problems with Windows than i care to remember so for me its worth the higher higher price. You say that both systems are as simple but I haven't found it to be so:shrug:

I don't find my computer to be a fashion accessory. I mean its not like my heart shaped Swarovski flash drive or something, now that is a fashion accessory. What you boys don't understand is that a fashion accessory is only useful if other people see you using it, I can wear my pretty crystal flash drive around my neck like a pendant and know one would not know its use unless they ask and *shucks*... :eek: they always do because its so perty. I only use my Mac at home. My Mac is a computer simple as that, and as for ease of use I find it much easier than Windows. If people are happy using something else I'm fine with that too but I don't use Windows unless I absolutely have to and I wouldn't change what I have unless there was something better or I found the quality lacking in terms of what I need to do on a computer on a daily basis. You guys should be happy that there are so many choices for different people. I don't get what your all going on about. I mean if you don't like the product Steve Job's isn't twisting your arm to buy one. When I went into the Apple store the very first time I wasn't interested in their shuffles or iphones or anything like that. I just wanted a computer that I can drag around the world without causing undue hassles every time I turn it on. Hell I haven't had a software problem since I first owned one and I cannot say that for Windows. But hey, to each his own.
 
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phlogistician said:
Jesus woman, how long did it take you to learn to ride a bike? A computer is a little more complex, why wouldn't you invest a little time learning how to make best use of it?



Web mail? Please, that's identical under any OS, being independent of it. You seriously telling me your mum can't click on the IE Icon in Windows, but she can click the Safari Icon on her Mac? Too many buttons on a PC mouse are there?



And you think it's harder on a PC because,.....?????



Clearly not. Clearly most people don't want to fork out the extra cash to buy less reliable hardware.



7.5% market share is pretty meagre.

100113_gartner02.gif




The price puts most people off. That's deliberate. There is nothing in a Mac that justifies the cost. It's the same marketing idea that keeps bars exclusive, you simply make the drinks expensive and therefore only the affluent patronise you.
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Okay. I'll break it down for you. I have never had an issue with a Mac outside of a track pad problem that was fixed in two days, before there was always an occasion where I had to take my computer in for servicing usually because it crashed or stalled or had some other issue that I couldn't figure out. I don't have to do that anymore so I am happy with the product I have. If I found that Mac didn't serve my needs anymore I would look for something else.

Why on earth do I need to go and learn what came intuitively with a mac? Why? If other people don't want to pay for a Mac that's fine. I justify the cost by never ever having to think about what the fucks going wrong with my computer now or looking for files or what have you. I'm happy with the product and haven't had a problem with it nor have I had to take it in because of some software glitch or read Windows for Dummies or anything like that. I don't want to think about those things, have no time for it.

Mac may not be popular but it has an authentic registered outlet here in Cambodia. Imagine that! I can't get a can of chicken stock on a regular basis but they have a Mac store. Go figure!

You say the software is less reliable but I haven't found this to be so. :shrug:
 
phlogistician said:
Blah blah. Have you ever tried to remove MS Office products from a workplace, and replace them with alternatives? That's the arena where you are lacking experience. Even Mac users, use MS Office productivity software. Try and get rid of MS, and the world stops working. I've used many and various alternatives, StarOffice, Lotus products, and they all SUCK compared to MS Office.
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I remember trying to get by on OpenOffice back in graduate school. Partially this was to make a strike against MS dominance of the office suite sector, and partially this was because I didn't have any money to spend on MS Office in the first place.

But, yeah, it quickly became apparent why every sticks with MS Office. You can get by with OpenOffice for basic stuff and making an occasional presentation for class or something (although it was clumsy and somewhat slow to do that). But for a professional setting I wouldn't even consider it; I'd end up looking cheap and amateur.

In the end, stuff like Windows and MS Office are like democracy: the absolute worst possible system, except for all of the other ones.

phlogistician said:
And the time you worked for a multinational that used Macs exclusively, what were the failure rates there? Ah, you never have, have you? I don't think anybody has, because you cannot build an infrastructure solely with Apple hardware and OS.
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To me, the iPad is highly representative of where Apple is looking to go in the computing market: luxury end-user devices for consumers that don't do actual work on their computers (hence the lack of a keyboard - nobody is going to be developing software on those things). They've long since given up on the enterprize, gamer and professional markets. However, the mass debate never seems to grasp those aspects since it occurs almost entirely amongst consumers, to whom it doesn't occur that there's anything to personal computers (or computing generally) apart from web browser performance, boot time and stability.
 
hmm
i doubt if recording studios dumped their macs and logic pro for windows and sonar. nor do i think hollywood is quite ready to dump macs and final cut pro/avid for windows running....movie maker

besides macs by way of intel and bootcamp allows windows to be installed quite painlessly. furthermore, if one wants to forgo the reboot, parallels enables both os's to run side by side

macs rule but i use windows
 
phlogistician said:
Apple OS's do NOT have good scalability built in. They are mere toys, for self posessed artistes, they do not support any back office function, act as servers, or support your business. They are terminals. There's also this myth they are more secure. Busted.
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these broad generalizations are meaningless. what specific problems do you have with their servers? which release? jag? panther? leopard? all of em? how well do you know unix?

/curious
 
Gustav said:
these broad generalizations are meaningless. what specific problems do you have with their servers? which release? jag? panther? leopard? all of em?
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Now Apple are ripping off Linux to use as the base of their OS, yes, you can run some server Apps under it, like Oracle. I've yet to see a Apple hardware running back-end applications in a datacentre.

I support large farms of Windows servers doing just that however.

Nobody builds infrastructure from Macs. Macs are end user gadgets, for individuals, and small enterprises. With Windows Active Directory, you can build a global security model of your business, and deliver updates to each client from a central point. Can you do that natively with OSX?

how well do you know unix?
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I was a Unix tecchie in several different past roles. Supported various flavours such as SunOs, Solaris, Ultrix, and Tru64 in Academia. Later, for an ISP, I supported Linux, Solaris, and AIX.
 
Gustav said:
i doubt if recording studios dumped their macs and logic pro for windows and sonar. nor do i think hollywood is quite ready to dump macs and final cut pro/avid for windows running....movie maker
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Movie studios, especially DreamWorks, have been going to enterprise suppliers like HP to provide their computing technology. This tells an inevitable shift towards PC's from a previously Mac dominated environment.

Their early reliance on Mac (esp. on the 90's) was understandable: MS didn't want the business and Windows was way too unstable anyway. Whereas Mac and it's associated software developers (Macromedia, Photoshop, etc) all worked in unison to create a platform that catered to those needs.

This has begun to shift greatly. I guess Carly did do something right while running HP.

~String
 
superstring01 said:
Movie studios, especially DreamWorks, have been going to enterprise suppliers like HP to provide their computing technology. This tells an inevitable shift towards PC's from a previously Mac dominated environment.
~String
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Odd, that this great myth still persists, that Macs are better for multimedia apps than other platforms, given that Macs are now made out of PC bits and Linux base OS. One would have thought, a PC running Linux was closer to the holy grail.
 
phlogistician said:
Odd, that this great myth still persists, that Macs are better for multimedia apps than other platforms, given that Macs are now made out of PC bits and Linux base OS. One would have thought, a PC running Linux was closer to the holy grail.
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There was a time--and I'm sure you are aware of this--when Macs were the halcyon of the computer world because the hardware and software were designed together. The parts that Mac bought were top notch and the software was, admittedly, well designed. Few crashes. Great options for artists and musicians. But, just like any luxury item, those things trickled down to PC's. In the time, MS worked out most of the disastrously unattractive issues from its platform and the various software suppliers all started making the same stuff for PC's as well. That, coupled with the fact that the exclusive Motorola CPU that was being used in Mac's wasn't so exclusive anymore and. . . well. . . the inevitable happened: PC's caught up in all the key areas but stayed a hell of a lot cheaper.

So. . . um. . . why buy a Mac if you get the same goods for half the price, none of the pretentiousness and significantly better interoperability?

~String
 
phlogistician said:
Now Apple are ripping off Linux to use as the base of their OS,.....
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uhhh, linux ripping off unix...gibber gibber blah blah......

os x is built on...

FreeBSD is a free Unix-like operating system descended from AT&T UNIX via the Berkeley Software Distribution (BSD). It has been characterized as "the unknown giant among free operating systems". It is not a clone of UNIX, but works like UNIX, with UNIX-compliant internals and system APIs. FreeBSD is generally regarded as reliable and robust.

phlogistician said:
With Windows Active Directory, you can build a global security model of your business, and deliver updates to each client from a central point. Can you do that natively with OSX?
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um yes you can. ad and ldap's counterpart in the mac is open directory and openldap and they can be bound to each other fairly easily

eyeball server admin..



..and workgroup manager..




while somewhat clumsier than gpedit, those two tools do a decent job. server admin also has a web interface on port 311 so one can just ssh in from a browser.


superstring01 said:
Movie studios, especially DreamWorks, have been going to enterprise suppliers like HP to provide their computing technology. This tells an inevitable shift towards PC's from a previously Mac dominated environment.

Their early reliance on Mac (esp. on the 90's) was understandable: MS didn't want the business and Windows was way too unstable anyway. Whereas Mac and it's associated software developers (Macromedia, Photoshop, etc) all worked in unison to create a platform that catered to those needs.

This has begun to shift greatly. I guess Carly did do something right while running HP.

~String
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yes, linux running on a pc cluster that process jobs submitted by macs running final cut pro...

/snicker

From the early 2000s, Final Cut Pro developed a large and expanding user base including many independent filmmakers. It has made inroads with film and television editors who have traditionally used Avid Technology's Media Composer. According to a 2007 SCRI study, Final Cut made up 49% of the US professional editing market, with Avid at 22%. A published Survey in 2008 by the American Cinema Editors Guild placed their users at 21% FCP (and growing from previous surveys of this group), while all others are still on an Avid system of some kind

this is what hp/linux replaced in dreamworks...

Designed for users with the most demanding technical compute and visualization needs, IRIX 6.5 readily scales to tackle huge data sets, compute-intensive problems, and real-time 3D visualization enhancements with ease. Combined with a quarterly release process designed for robustness and stability, IRIX is a true leader in high performance technical computing.
 
/chuckle

here is a def....

An application designed to run in the computer environment (machine language and OS) being referenced. The term is used to contrast a native application with an interpreted one such as a Java application that is not native to a single platform. The term may also be used to contrast a native application with an emulated application, which was originally written for a different platform.

now tell me how your open source/proprietary is even relevant to this "criteria" of yours. how on earth is buying something vs getting it for free factor in here?

Microsoft bought the rights to QDOS for $50,000, .... (link)

beside, ldap is a cross platform protocol that any os can support. just because ms's ad uses it does not preclude others from doing so


ps: i wonder why the idiot owners of sci insist on rebooting the server every night at this time
 
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