Will COVID vaccines affect women's fertility and birth rates?

[billvon]

Shocking how the caution regarding vaccination of pregnant women has led to more unnecessary death and disease. At least better late than never that advice to pregnant women is they should get vaccinated now.

No source of the caution is given and no link provided to substantiate how such caution regarding vaccination of pregnant women has led to more unnecessary death and disease.

I'll give you a few, then:

Pat O'Brien, MD talks about "the natural and understandable reluctance of pregnant women to take anything unusual or new during pregnancy because of fear that it might harm their baby."

The Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) advised "that pregnant women were better to avoid the covid vaccine unless they were at high risk of serious disease, because of a lack of evidence on safety." This was revised in April of 2021 when more evidence was available.

https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2862

 

[DaveC426913]

This is Arthur's original post and its meaning is not far from clear to me sorry

Shocking how the caution regarding vaccination of pregnant women has led to more unnecessary death and disease. At least better late than never that advice to pregnant women is they should get vaccinated now.

No source of the caution is given and no link provided to substantiate how such caution regarding vaccination of pregnant women has led to more unnecessary death and disease.

This is, unfortunately the case throughout much of modern western medicine. Not just pregnant women - but anyone who is not an average-build, 25-45 year-old, white, educated, middle-class male. That's their control group. Anything else is like "we'll get to that in a future release".

 

[Arthur Smith]

This is, unfortunately the case throughout much of modern western medicine. Not just pregnant women - but anyone who is not an average-build, 25-45 year-old, white, educated, middle-class male. That's their control group. Anything else is like "we'll get to that in a future release".

A gay friend of mine is still bitter at the contrast between the enormous effort put into developing vaccines against Covid and that into developing treatment against AIDS

 

[DaveC426913]

A gay friend of mine is still bitter at the contrast between the enormous effort put into developing vaccines against Covid and that into developing treatment against AIDS

Yep. The world was pretty bigoted back then and AIDs got a bad rap, slowing development.

 

[exchemist]

A gay friend of mine is still bitter at the contrast between the enormous effort put into developing vaccines against Covid and that into developing treatment against AIDS

That's ludicrous. In terms of risk to the population, there is no comparison. Not to mention the fact that the tools are our disposal today are vastly more powerful than back in the 1980s.

 

[Arthur Smith]

That's ludicrous. In terms of risk to the population, there is no comparison. Not to mention the fact that the tools are our disposal today are vastly more powerful than back in the 1980s.

It doesn't alter the fact that he is bitter. He lost a lot of friends who may have survived if it was realised sooner that it was a virus and not a lifestyle that was the problem.

 

[Arthur Smith]

That's ludicrous. In terms of risk to the population, there is no comparison. Not to mention the fact that the tools are our disposal today are vastly more powerful than back in the 1980s.

I could make the same point about diseases rife in Africa such as malaria.

 

[DaveC426913]

I could make the same point about diseases rife in Africa such as malaria.

I'm not really sure what that point would be.
You're sort of comparing apples in crates to oranges in bags.
Do you want to just start a discussion about what ailments the world has and what funds from which nations should go where? Because that's a pretty broad subject.

 

[exchemist]

It doesn't alter the fact that he is bitter. He lost a lot of friends who may have survived if it was realised sooner that it was a virus and not a lifestyle that was the problem.

No doubt. And it was regrettable that people tended to write it off as a "gay plague" in the early days. But it was a disease that only gradually became understood, due to the low number of cases and the highly specialised and restricted means of transmission. If it had ballooned across the world and killed thousands within months, like SARS-CoV-2, it would have been a different story.

Added to which, the diagnostic and treatment options available forty years ago were far more limited than today. We had no genome sequencing for a start. The whole attack on SARS-CoV-2 has been driven by genetic sequencing and engineering, a technology that simply did not exist at that time.

The comparison is quite misplaced.

 

[DaveC426913]

It doesn't alter the fact that he is bitter. He lost a lot of friends who may have survived if it was realised sooner that it was a virus and not a lifestyle that was the problem.

Yes, that was a hard-won battle. The LGBTQ community has come a long way in 40 years toward equitable rights - and not just for their own community - they have brought about a sea change in the awareness of many, many marginalized minorities. If your friend was part of that movement, he should be proud of the legacy he is leaving for marginalized communities.

 

[Arthur Smith]

No doubt. And it was regrettable that people tended to write it off as a "gay plague" in the early days. But it was a disease that only gradually became understood, due to the low number of cases and the highly specialised and restricted means of transmission. If it had ballooned across the world and killed thousands within months, like SARS-CoV-2, it would have been a different story.

Added to which, the diagnostic and treatment options available forty years ago were far more limited than today. We had no genome sequencing for a start. The whole attack on SARS-CoV-2 has been driven by genetic sequencing and engineering, a technology that simply did not exist at that time.

The comparison is quite misplaced.

Well, I was surprised to hear it from him for the first time last year. But then, for me AIDS was something that wasn't my problem. Money and politics decide, not science.

 

[DaveC426913]

But then, for me AIDS was something that wasn't my problem.

Which is what everyone thought. Like you, no one cared if it wasn't touching them.

As Douglas Adams said, it's SEP*.
*Somebody Else's Problem.

Money and politics dance to the tune of the voters and taxpayers.

 

[Arthur Smith]

Yes, that was a hard-won battle. The LGBTQ community has come a long way in 40 years toward equitable rights - and not just for their own community - they have brought about a sea change in the awareness of many, many marginalized minorities. If your friend was part of that movement, he should be proud of the legacy he is leaving for marginalized communities.

These days he runs retreats counselling youngsters how to cope, how to come out to family, how to find space. The camp site facilities are impressive - a canyon in the Pyrenees.

 

[DaveC426913]

These days he runs retreats counselling youngsters how to cope, how to come out to family, how to find space. The camp site facilities are impressive - a canyon in the Pyrenees.

That's awesome. He has turned his negative history into a force for positive change for others. Good on him.

 

[Michael 345]

AIDS

https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/basics/whatishiv.html

Extract

HIV (human immunodeficiency virus) is a virus that attacks the body’s immune system. If HIV is not treated, it can lead to AIDS (acquired immunodeficiency syndrome).

In a very very simplistic description of the problem

COVID-19 gives you a disease which can be treated by boosting your immune system
HIV attacks the immune system and if progresses to AIDS the immune system may not be recoverable

 

[DaveC426913]

https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/basics/whatishiv.html

Extract

HIV (human immunodeficiency virus) is a virus that attacks the body’s immune system. If HIV is not treated, it can lead to AIDS (acquired immunodeficiency syndrome).

In a very very simplistic description of the problem

COVID-19 gives you a disease which can be treated by boosting your immune system
HIV attacks the immune system and if progresses to AIDS the immune system may not be recoverable

I think we've just been mansplained.

 

[Michael 345]

I think we've just been mansplained.

I was diseaseplaining

A gay friend of mine is still bitter at the contrast between the enormous effort put into developing vaccines against Covid and that into developing treatment against AIDS

Arthur Smith seemed to be under the impression that both AIDS and COVID-19 would be amenable to the same treatment regimen ie with COVID-19 boost a working immune system

With AIDS you have immunodeficiency, the I in AIDS, hence very little immune system to boost

Bit more diseaseplaining for the thread

I need COFFEE

 

[billvon]

Arthur Smith seemed to be under the impression that both AIDS and COVID-19 would be amenable to the same treatment regimen ie with COVID-19 boost a working immune system.

I fear you are mixing a few things up here.
COVID-19 and AIDS are both diseases caused by viruses. They are not the viruses themselves.

The COVID vaccine does not make you immune to "COVID" - it makes you immune to SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID.
The (experimental) AIDS vaccine does not make you immune to "AIDS" - it makes you immune to HIV, the virus that causes AIDS.

Neither vaccine works after you are infected with the virus. Both must be administered BEFORE infection.

 

[Michael 345]

I fear you are mixing a few things up here.
COVID-19 and AIDS are both diseases caused by viruses. They are not the viruses themselves.

Are sars-cov-2 and covid-19 the same? typed into Mr Google results in Miss Crome delivering the following

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41579-020-00459-7#:~:text=Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus,human health and public safety.

Extract

Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) is a highly transmissible and pathogenic coronavirus that emerged in late 2019 and has caused a pandemic of acute respiratory disease, named 'coronavirus disease 2019' (COVID-19), which threatens human health and public safety.

My bold and underlined. This, to me, indicates the virus (SARS-CoV-2) has a linked name (COVID-19) as short version of the disease effectively making them the same

Neither vaccine works after you are infected with the virus. Both must be administered BEFORE infection.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/201...D-19 vaccine,protection to your immune system

Extract

You should get a COVID-19 vaccine even if you already had COVID-19.

Getting sick with COVID-19 offers some protection from future illness with COVID-19, sometimes called “natural immunity.” The level of protection people get from having COVID-19 may vary depending on how mild or severe their illness was, the time since their infection, and their age. No currently available test can reliably determine if a person is protected from infection.

 

[exchemist]

I was diseaseplaining



Arthur Smith seemed to be under the impression that both AIDS and COVID-19 would be amenable to the same treatment regimen ie with COVID-19 boost a working immune system

With AIDS you have immunodeficiency, the I in AIDS, hence very little immune system to boost

Bit more diseaseplaining for the thread

I need COFFEE

I don't know what has gone wrong with your mind, Michael, but that is manifestly not what Arthur was suggesting.

He was just telling us his gay friend was lamenting the lack of urgency in tackling HIV when it first appeared, compared with the huge recent effort to combat SARS-CoV-2.

And, as it happens, a vaccine for HIV is not thought to be out of the question: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV_vaccine_development. So you can still prime the immune system to react to a virus like HIV, even though it attacks part of the immune system.