Will COVID vaccines affect women's fertility and birth rates?

Discussion in 'General Science & Technology' started by Neurostudent, Jan 9, 2022.

  1. Arthur Smith Registered Member

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  3. Arthur Smith Registered Member

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    I think you've misunderstood. I strongly encourage all pregnant women who haven't done so to get vaccinated straight away. My point about the thalidomide tragedy is it has resulted in extreme caution with regard to drug trials and pregnancy.
     
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  5. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    This link does not support your claim

    Did not contain substantially the same words as

    ...the caution regarding vaccination of pregnant women has led to more unnecessary death and disease

    AND you did not

    • CLEARLY state your view simple
    • YES I think pregnant women SHOULD GET VACCINATED
    • or
    • NO I think pregnant women SHOULD NOT GET VACCINATED
    Arh so it is an OPINION based on
    • One that pregnant women have been reluctant
    • which is clearly understandable (speaking as a retired RN Midwife who had a few years with pregnant women)
    • Two that unvaccinated pregnant women are at much higher risk from COVID.
    • Which is also understandable
    But those two nuggets DO NOT allow you to claim

    ...the caution regarding vaccination of pregnant women has led to more unnecessary death and disease

    Statistical analysis does not work like that

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  7. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Wake up Michael, you've got this round your neck.

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    Arthur's meaning was quite clear from his original post.
     
  8. Arthur Smith Registered Member

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    Did you read the LA Times article?
     
  9. Arthur Smith Registered Member

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    I thought I was but communication is a two-way street. I'm available for clarification.
     
  10. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Which is well known but poorly communicated by yourself when linked (however tenuous) with COVID-19

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  11. Arthur Smith Registered Member

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    Ah, new here. Is there some restriction on posting oticons?
     
  12. Arthur Smith Registered Member

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    You disagree with me about excess deaths among pregnant women due to delay in them being vaccinated?
     
  13. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Link please or this your opinion

    No problem expressing opinions when label as such

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  14. Arthur Smith Registered Member

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    EMOTICONS! I was posting on my phone, hence typo. I'm anglophone, British English. I get the impression English may not be your first language. I know how easy it is to miss the nuance in another language than your own.
     
  15. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    This is Arthur's original post and its meaning is not far from clear to me sorry

    Shocking how the caution regarding vaccination of pregnant women has led to more unnecessary death and disease. At least better late than never that advice to pregnant women is they should get vaccinated now.

    No source of the caution is given and no link provided to substantiate how such caution regarding vaccination of pregnant women has led to more unnecessary death and disease.

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    Last edited: Jan 10, 2022
  16. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Born 1942. Outskirts of London, Woking, Surrey

    Came to Australia age about 19

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  17. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    The caution is that shown by women in not coming forward to be vaccinated. Here is one article about it: https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2862
     
  18. Arthur Smith Registered Member

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    OK, my mistake. But did you read the LA times article. There's no question that pregnant women were initially discouraged from getting vaccinated. There's no question that pregnant women who catch covid are at risk of serious disease and worse. I'm very glad that pregnant women are being urged to get vaccinated and (with hindsight, perhaps) it's unfortunate such advice didn't come sooner. I'm not sure what you disagree with other than my communication deficit.
     
  19. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    I have been retired as RN Midwife over 20 years but still have contacts. Have not been involved with any aspects of COVID-19, apart from being stranded in Bali for 18 months because of it and having my first vaccination in Kuta

    From what I hear was not so much pregnant women were discouraged, more cautioned - guided - assisted in making their choice

    Certainly my training was focused on patients making their choice in all health matters

    Psychiatry tries but for obvious reasons Patients choice and Psychiatrist choice are not always in agreement

    I do so all the time

    Cheers

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  20. Arthur Smith Registered Member

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    It's a bit like Pascal's wager. There was initially a lack of guidance to nurses, midwives and doctors so individuals naturally were cautious about advising pregnant women to get vaccinated (there was no information regarding vaccines and pregnancy as pregnant women were excluded from trials). People took the cautious approach and advised delay. It has since become very clear that Covid vaccines are not harmful to pregnant women or their babies and that many unvaccinated pregnant women incurred avoidable problems as a result.

    TLDR: the advice that pregnant women should get vaccinated came later than it ought to have done - and too late for some.

    The LA times article covers it well.
     
  21. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Off topic

    Case going through court here, Australia, where the Judge has stated NO ACRONYMS to be used in the case. Sad I never collected his words as he expressed it so well

    Wish more people would spell stuff out, not use ACRONYMS

    My 2 cent opinion

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  22. Arthur Smith Registered Member

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    Agree somewhat. The rule in formal communication is to attach full phrase on first use and then just the acronym subsequently. I draw the line at British Broadcasting Corporation though. (I thought everyone knew "too long; didn't read")
     
  23. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Or TLNR To Long Not Read

    Anyway as I noted off topic so end here thanks

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