Were Adam and Eve the first people?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Beer w/Straw, Nov 14, 2018.

  1. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Start out with the common ground Dr. Phil style. What is agreed upon before what isn't.

    Adam and Eve, faux pas to mention or nay?

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  3. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    To whom?

    jan.
     
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  5. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    I don't believe the Adam, Eve thing is historically accurate, do you?
     
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  7. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    What do you mean by “ the Adam and Eve thing”?

    Jan.
     
  8. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Oh, nothing.

    Carry on.

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  9. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    I'm genuinely intrigued.
    I predict that it could either mean their origin, or whether or not they actually existed.
    But what I find most interesting, is your refusal to state either, or any other reason for your question.
    Is it a case of you can't bring yourself to actually stating it?

    jan.
     
  10. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    I believe it's a work of fiction, do you?
     
  11. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    I have no reason to think it is a work of fiction.
    What reason do you have?

    Jan
     
  12. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Because mankind could not have come from two solitary humans, a man and a woman. (Who are, per the Bible, really the same person, one made from the other.) So it is fiction.
     
  13. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Well, for starters, Adam and Eve are fictional names and they were not created smart, they had to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge, to become smart. But that's when God threw them out of a town called Paradise, to rot outside city limits, naked and afraid. But He loved them....

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    ......
    Oh, Genesis, it's the greatest BS story ever told........HS!
     
  14. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    Where does it say that mankind came “from two solitary humans?

    Jan.
     
  15. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    I am always amused that the most fervent theists are generally the least familiar with the Bible. Comments in italics.

    ==============
    Genesis 2: (excerpted)

    This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens, before any plant of the field was in the earth and before any herb of the field had grown. For the Lord God had not caused it to rain on the earth, and there was no man to till the ground; but a mist went up from the earth and watered the whole face of the ground.
    And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

    In other words - there was only the earth. No plants. No animals. No man. Then God made the ground wet and created the first man.

    The Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden, and there He put the man whom He had formed. And out of the ground the Lord God made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life was also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

    God plants a garden with nice trees and crops.

    And the Lord God said, “It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him.” Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name. So Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him.

    God creates animals. But none are a good enough companion for man.

    And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. Then the rib which the Lord God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man. And Adam said: “This is now bone of my bones, And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man.”

    God creates the first woman as a better companion.
    =============

    Genesis then goes on to explain how they have children, and how those children have children, and from them all the peoples of the earth descend. They included "the father of those who dwell in tents and have livestock" and "the father of all those who play the harp and flute" and "the instructor of every craftsman in bronze and iron." Some of their descendants lived for a long time - Mahalalel lived over 800 years! - so good for them.

    BTW then there was a SECOND time, listed in Genesis, that the Bible claims that all Mankind came from a single family. But this time you will have to do the work on your own to find it.
     
    Xelasnave.1947 likes this.
  16. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    I think it's silly; like believing the Earth is less than 10 000 years old.
     
  17. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    Actually you're referring to the FIRST time.
    You know, the part where God said...

    ...“Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”...

    ...So God created mankind in his own image,
    in the image of God he created them;
    male and female he created them.

    So again. Where is the passage that says Adam and Eve were the first two human beings, and gave rise to every human being?


    jan.
     
  18. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Gen 1:26 God said, 'Let us make man in our own image, in the likeness
    of ourselves, and let them be masters
    of the fish of the sea, the birds of heaven, the cattle, all the wild animals and all the creatures that creep along the ground.'
    Gen 1:27 God created man in the image of himself, in the image of God he created him, male and female he created them.

    The Holy Bible
    The New Jerusalem
    Bible NJB

    meh
     
  19. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    I just quoted the section.

    Let's go back to basic Bible study:

    Genesis 1 describes a creation story. Seven days, starting from nothing, and at the end of those seven (actually six) days you have everything - people, animals, plants etc etc. Then on the seventh day God rested.

    Genesis 2 then goes back. From the beginning of Genesis 2:

    "This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens, before any plant of the field was in the earth and before any herb of the field had grown."

    Genesis 2 goes back to before there were plants. In other words, to before the third day of creation as described in Genesis 1. Again, in other words, BEFORE the lines "so God created mankind in his own image" which happened on day 6.

    With me so far?

    OK. So Genesis 2 is talking about what happened BEFORE he created Mankind in Genesis 1.

    What does Genesis 2 say about what happened before he created Mankind? It says that there was nothing, then there was one man, and then God created one woman using Man's flesh - and Mankind proceeded from them. They were the first humans, per the Bible.


    I never cease to be amused how ignorant theists are of the Bible.
     
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  20. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Jan's familiar with the Bible. Jan's leading you on.

    They're not here for discussion. Jan writes a sentence, you write a long argument, Jan writes a sentence, you respond with more paragraphs of argument, you do all the work - and every step the way Jan gets a cheap, low-investment, easily repeated opportunity to slander and disparage.

    That's what Jan's here for - repetition of calumny, accusation, disparagement. The rest is pretext, setup.
     
  21. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    That is a reasonable observation but it is clear that although Jan throws the mud it is only he who ends up covered in it.


    He has nothing to support anything he presents.

    His best evidence seems to be the opinions of Craig.
    Not evidence of course but Jan is not interested in evidence it would seem.

    Yet should we blame Jan?
    We see thru his tactics yet we line up to argue with him knowing that we will only get more of the same.
    Perhaps if we all just ignored him he would run out of fuel.

    Alex
     
  22. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    It doesn't say ''this is the history of the heavens and the earth'', rather it says, ''these are the generation of the heavens and the earth...''.
    The word used is 'towledah' which means generations, descendants, accounts of men and their descendants. There doesn't seem to be any word that directly translates to history.

    The Lord had not caused it to rain, and there was no man to till the ground, in the garden he made, and place Adam in. The rest of mankind were going about their business outside.

    The bible states that all in all, Adam and Eve had seven children. Hardly the whole of mankind.
    Also, when Cain was expelled, he received a mark, to which he was worried about what would happen when others saw him with the mark.
    Also, he got himself a wife, and he developed a city (not a village, or town). How could this have happened if his parents only lived just short of a thousand years, and had only 7 children?

    The very first line of genesis states: ''In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth''.
    After the creation of mankind (both man and woman), God blessed and instructed them to be fruitful, multiply, and replenish the earth.
    ''Plenish'' means to ''fill up'', so logically, ''replenish'' means to re-fill up. That doesn't sound as though that is the ''beginning''.

    That's not what it is talking about.
    I think you should look at it again carefully. Not with a Christian mindset, but objectively.

    jan.




     
  23. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    "This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens"
    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis 2&version=NKJV

    Via the NKJV, which is a more accurate translation into modern English than the ancient KJV you quoted, which was written over 400 years ago.
    "Accounts of men and their descendants" is history - as applied to humans. Call it "human history" if you like.

    In any case, it doesn't change anything. It says quite clearly that Genesis 2, starting from the fourth line, happens BEFORE Man was created as depicted in Genesis 1.
    Correct. The Bible merely states that they were the FIRST people.
    Because the section of Genesis that is "the book of the genealogy of Adam" claims that he lived 930 years and during that time "he had sons and daughters." That's easily 1000 kids over 930 years, which could easily be a city after ten generations or so.

    But in any case that's immaterial, because the Bible says quite clearly that they were the first people.
    Correct. Which happened before God created Man, per the Bible.
    Correct. Which happened after God created Man, per the Bible. (And with Adam living 930 years, he - and his descendants - certainly had a chance to do just that.)
    I did. And looking at it purely objectively, without needing to believe it, what it SAYS is that Adam and Eve were the first people, and they started humanity.

    Now, you can claim "no, no, the Bible is wrong, and what I say is . . . ." and that's fine. But since you regularly attack other people who do that, I'll get a good laugh if you try.
     

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