Were Adam and Eve the first people?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Beer w/Straw, Nov 14, 2018.

  1. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,573
    It is a pity you are incapable of asking this question of yourself.



    You ignore the vids I present that actually lay out the facts that you have conned yourself to ignore...your contrived world is a lie and clearly you know that given your answer a question with a question evasive discussion style.
    Once you were capable of much better, once you were someone worthy of respect...and now look at the depth to which you have sunk.

    Anyways you should say you are sorry to Billvon ... what an unfounded insult...you should be ashamed of your words.

    I am very disappointed that you seem to be becoming a bad person Jan.


    Clearly, as your myths are shown to be not only myths but taken from earlier myths, your desparation grows and your rationality leaves you.

    You have been conned by yourself to accept that an ancient pretold myth is somehow true...thats sad and yet you exercise no control on the nonsense you present.

    You are causing folk to mock the good book and erode its literary and cultural value.

    So I wait to see if you have the decency to appologise to Billvon ... do the right thing Jan.

    Alex
     
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  3. river

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    The bible is the " good book " ?
     
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  5. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Hi River I hope you are well.
    The bible is often called the good book but seems a collection of many books.

    It seems to come from many sources and individual books within appear to be two or more versions edited together to make up the final version for the bible.
    Alex
     
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  7. river

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    14,109
    Getting there , thanks for asking .

    Indeed , and versions edited out .
     
  8. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    One could wonder how much changed over time, particularly when you consider adding to the changes resulting from editing you add for consideration the various translations as well ... and so when folk go on, like Jan, treating the good book as an entirely reliable account of what may have been originally recorded and add that the account of creation can only be made up ( or else produce the witness qualified to make the claim that a creation event took place, which is impossible in an eternal universe, and explain how this witness got an invite to the show)...one wonders how their acceptance of the story is so easy for them...it is as though their ability to think things through no longer exists ... I imagine them trance like utterring make up notions implanted by early brain washing...imagine a group all chanting..."in the begining etc"


    A little thinking will cause one to conclude my inconvenient observations make sence and the opening line is picked from thin air and provably made up.

    And Jan can find no problem with the claim by an unknown author who got it wrong and yet can not take the time to find out what evolution says before he rejects all the known scientific authors backing their writtings with testable evidence...oh I forgot Jan does not need evidence so he rejects the notion that evidence can help us sort out made up stuff for rejection.
    I suppose the realisation that religion is just astrology has left him crushed.
    Alex
     
  9. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    But it says that she was.
    I didn't say anything about a biological sense. Why couldn't she be a mother to elephants and scorpions in a bonding sense?
    I'm just pointing out where you're wrong.
     
  10. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    17,933
    Correct. And since they were the first people, that race gave rise to all other races. Indeed, it lists those races later as descendants of Adam. From Acts 17:26: “And He has made from one blood every nationof men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings,” The expression “from one blood,” as it appears in the Greek Testament, is 'ex henos', literally “out of one male.” The reference is to Adam, out of whose side came Eve, and, ultimately all humanity.
    Nope. Sorry. It states quite clearly that Man came first, then God created Woman from one of Adam's ribs.

    I know you don't like that, but that's what the Bible says, no matter how much you try to twist and distort it,
    Correct. And Adam and Eve obeyed that directive.
    Ah. So you are now claiming Adam wasn't part of Mankind?

    Look, you are just embarrassing yourself now. Your sanctimonious arrogance really tripped you up when you tried to talk about something you knew very little about (the Bible) and now you are trying to weasel your way out of it. It's not going to work.
    I understand your anger. You have been made to look like a fool and you are blindly lashing out. But consider that everything I have posted has come directly from the NKJV of the Bible, whereas all you have are unsupported opinions, silly claims and illogical conclusions. I can understand your anger, but perhaps you should take that anger and use it as an incentive to better educate yourself about the Bible, rather than lashing out at people.

     
  11. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    That’s what it says.
    Bilvon seems to think the bible states that Adam and Eve were the first huma beings, and gave rise to the human race. Are you of the same opinion?
    We’ll get on with it then.

    Jan.
     
  12. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,124
    "All living" would include the human race, wouldn't it? The Bible genealogies name the descendants of Adam and Eve down to Jesus, so there doesn't seem to be any escaping that.
     
  13. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    13,419
    Let’s have a look...

    Right off the bat, it is describing God’s creation.
    Secondly, it is not referring to seed. It is is literally referring to the material, blood.
    The Greek word used, is haima, and the primary definition is, “”of no derivation.””.

    Try again.

    Another lie.

    of one blood
    ek heis haima

    I’ll be glad to look into that when you find it in the Bible.

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    We’re talking about the creation of mankind, written in the genesis 1 (as quoted).
    You’re talking about the linage of Adam. Different event all together.
    Then again, you now know that.

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    I like that you’re forcing this issue, which clearly you took for granted until now. You like a bunny in the headlights.

    But I don’t have to distort anything. I simply have to read the words to know what they say.

    You on the other hand, seem to be in shock.
    You’re just blatantly lying, and you don’t even care. It is psychologically amazin

    “Anger”?
    I’m amazed.
    You just openly lie for everyone to see, and it doesn’t even bother you. This makes for a great discussion regarding the psychology of atheists.

    “Blindly”?

    This is brilliant. You are prepared to deny what is written for all to see, just to maintain your delusion.

    Except the idea that Adam and Eve were the first ever human beings, and the entirety of humanity are derived from them.
    Can you produce that information?


    I don’t need opinions, I simply have to read genesis 1 and 2. You should try it some time.

    What is illogical about what I’ve written?
    Or is it something you just say because you are an atheist, and I am a theist?

    I get it.
    You need me to be angry so that you can focus on that, rather than your lying.

    Sorry mate, but I’m not angry. I’m intrigued. In fact I want to see how far you’re willing to take this, and see if any atheist on here will help you out of the predicament you have put yourself in. Alex has tried to stick up for you, but he will believe anything at all, that helps to maintain his delusion, plus he has no credibility among his fellow, more informed atheist chums.

    Jan.
     
  14. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    I did; studied it for years. It is unfortunate that you haven't read it very much. If you had studied it a bit more you would have not made such foolish statements. And yet you consider yourself an expert.

    Google the phrase "Dunning-Kruger Effect" - you could be a poster boy for that effect.
     
  15. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    13,419
    Can you show where the bible says that Adam and Eve were the first two humans from which every single human in the entire history of human presence, is descended from?

    Jan.
     
  16. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    17,933
    Of course. It is easy, and I did so above. Provided the Biblical references, even.

    You are providing a great example of the psychology of atheists for us.
     
  17. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    The references you provided only show that God created Adam, not that Adam was the first man.
    The references that I provide show that God created both male and female humans, as well as Adam.
    So where does it say that Adam and Eve were the first ever human, from which all humans derived?
    We're still waiting.

    I'm not an atheist, Sherlock.
    I don't have to make things up, to justify my worldview.

    jan.
     
  18. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    13,419
    Are you of the same opinion as bilvon?

    Jan.
     
  19. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    17,933
    The references show that:
    God created Adam.
    He then created Eve from Adam.
    All humans then came from Adam and Eve.

    This is reflected in the catechism of all the major Abrahamic religions out there. That's why original sin is a big deal. No Adam ancestry = no original sin to worry about.

    From Answers in Genesis:
    =======================
    The need for the Cross of Christ is rooted in the facts of our Creation history. The origin of sin and suffering and death and our need for a Savior is rooted in the truth of human origins as described in Genesis. Therefore it is vital that Christians avoid the compromising positions adopted by theistic evolutionists who typically claim that Adam and Eve are mere allegorical characters. Ken Ham recently discussed this problem in his blog posts, “Are There Two Kinds of Truth?” and “Understanding Original Sin.”

    Christians should also be confidently able to share the Gospel of salvation by beginning with the truth that the Bible is not anti-science. Some people may doubt God’s Word and ask, “Did we all come from Adam and Eve?” We must remain firm on the authority of God’s Word, as His Word is truth. Furthermore, the wonders of modern genetics, far from unhitching humanity from Adam, is actually completely consistent with God’s eyewitness Genesis account ofHis special creation of two humans—Adam and Eve, the parents of every human being ever born. And just as our sin problem began with the rebellion of the “first Adam,” so God’s solution to our sin problem culminated in the sacrifice of His Son, Jesus Christ, called the “Last Adam” (1 Corinthians 15:45) because, though fully God, Jesus Christ became fully human (John 1:1–14) to bear the guilt for the sin of all people (2 Corinthians 5:21; Hebrews 2:9–10; John 3:16) on the Cross.
    ========================

    From Pope Pius XII:
    ===============
    When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains either that after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parents of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now, it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the teaching authority of the Church proposed with regard to original sin which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam in which through generation is passed onto all and is in everyone as his own.
    ==============

    Now, what is happening with you is that you have backed yourself into a corner. You don't really want to try to argue that all humanity came from two people as the Bible (and Christianity) claims because the science is firmly against that. So now you try to twist and squirm and redefine the Bible so you can claim "well, maybe there were MORE than two people! Yeah, Adam wasn't really part the Mankind that God created."

    And this is what your beliefs do to you. They require you to ignore evidence and manufacture lies to try to make two incompatible facts seem to not contradict each other. A more intelligent approach is to take the Bible for what it is - an oral history going back thousands of years that a religion was based on. It's a story book with a loose connection to history, not a science book.
    Nor am I, but you keep calling me one. I figured I'd return the favor.
     
  20. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Okay.

    This is not documented at all.

    That may be so, but it doesn't alter the fact that it is not documented.

    Where did God say, or imply, ''we all come from Adam''?

    All I'm asking you, or anyone, is to show where it says in the bible that all humans are the progeny of Adam and Eve. I'll accept that I have been mistaken, if you can do that.

    Or at least explain why I should believe that the bible says that (even though it doesn't)?

    jan.
     
  21. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,133
    You can't say you weren't warned.

    This is interesting:
    This guy is one step away from finding Biblical support for racial divisions of the humans on this planet, with one race descended from heaven, and the other - - not.
     
  22. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    17,933
    Several verses of the Bible discuss just that. The Pope (who speaks for God per the Church) documented it.
    Where he said that Adam was the first man and Eve the first woman. Where he lists all their descendants that make up the beginning of humanity, all the way to Noah, where everyone except Noah's family is exterminated*. (A second Biblical proof that we are all descended from Adam.) Where he says that we are all - that is, every human - tainted by the original sin of Adam since we all descended from him. Adam's sin, specifically, meant that women feel pain in childbirth, men must toil for their bread, and why they eat what comes from the ground. That is the curse God laid on Adam's descendants. So if that still holds true, then the Bible claims we are all descended from Adam.

    Here's a passage from the Apocrypha that discusses it: (I know you don't care, but such things interest me)
    4 Esdras 7:4 - "O Adam, what have you done? For though it was you who sinned, the fall was not yours alone, but ours also who are your descendants."
    Asked and answered.
    You can believe whatever asinine thing you like. Heck, you think Santa is real.

    (* - Adam->Seth->Enosh->Kenan->Mahalalel->Jared->Enoch->Methusaleh->Lamech->Noah)
     
    Xelasnave.1947 likes this.
  23. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    7,573
    The flood probably wiped out the "others".
    Alex
     

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