Vaccine related autism study?

Discussion in 'Conspiracies' started by Magical Realist, Feb 8, 2015.

  1. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    16,783
    You don't know if someone else couldn't get vaccinated because they were allergic, or just poor, or homeless, or perhaps were one of the 3% vaccines don't work for. Or maybe they got the illness straight from a natural source, like unclean water or bad food. So there's no justification for your hateful witchhunt of anti-vaxxers. None whatsoever. It's just a way of demonizing a small minority as diseased and immoral. Just like they did with AIDS. Just like they did with illegal immigrants and leprosy. Same old crap over and over again. Give them a name, and then connect a disease to them. After that, show how they are "endangering our children". It's genocidal thinking 101.
     
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  3. Bells Staff Member

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    The problem is that you are not providing anything informative.

    What you are doing is providing false and dangerous information that has been thoroughly discounted by the scientific community.

    Measles was eliminated in the US. It was no longer endemic in the US. Do you have any idea how huge that is? That was a giant step towards eradicating it entirely, like smallpox was eradicated. And do you know how smallpox was eradicated? Through an extensive vaccination program that literally spanned the world. They were close to doing the same thing with Measles. Again, think about how huge that is.

    It is astounding, how in this day and age, that people can be so fundamentally stupid and selfish and then try to hide behind "informed decision". Informed decision based on fraudulent studies and a bunch of dickwads who think that their wealth means they are somehow above the fray. The result? Children in affluent suburbs in California have the same vaccination rates as people in war torn South Sudan and preventable communicable dangerous diseases are suddenly on the rise.

    Parents in these schools are submitting a form called a "personal belief exemption," which states that they are not vaccinating their kids due to "a diffuse constellation of unproven anxieties, from allergies and asthma to eczema and seizures," reporter Gary Baum writes.

    In some schools, up to 60 to 70 percent of parents have filed these PBEs, indicating a vaccination rate as low as that of Chad or South Sudan. Unlike in Santa Monica, however, parents in South Sudan have trouble getting their children vaccinated because of an ongoing civil war.

    And lo, it is these very same L.A. neighborhoods that are experiencing a resurgence of diseases like whooping cough, otherwise known as pertussis. Measles cases have also hit a high in California this year.

    The US had a whooping cough epidemic last year. Why? Because people who believe as you do refused to vaccinate their children. And the result?

    With more than 800 new cases reported in just the last two weeks, California has officially reached “epidemic proportions” of whooping cough (pertussis). Typically the state sees 80 to 100 cases a month. Babies are the most vulnerable.

    As of June 10, there have been 3,458 cases reported to the California Department of Public Health (CDPH). That’s more than the number of reports for all of 2013, not to mention summer months are usually the worst.

    Two-thirds of pertussis hospitalizations have been in children four months or younger, and two infant deaths have already been reported.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Whooping cough is cyclical and peaks every three to five years. California’s last peak was in 2010 -- with 9,163 cases -- so officials expect another is underway. On the national level, between January 1 and April 14 of this year, 4,838 cases have been reported to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) by 48 states and Washington, D.C. That’s a 24 percent increase compared with the same time period last year (mapped above)
    .

    It is abundantly clear that people are not making informed decisions.

    We know this because anti-vaxxers often spout and quote fraudulent studies.

    And now, we do know that some parents are looking to deliberately expose their children to deadly diseases, which frankly, is tantamount to attempted murder. Not only that, these parents are seeking to deliberately make an epidemic worse and risk spreading the disease to even more people.

    And people like you call this informed choice and then link what is tantamount to fraud to support selfishness and stupidity?
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2015
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  5. Bells Staff Member

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    That is why everyone else has to be vaccinated.

    The reason to vaccinate is to protect those who cannot be vaccinated.

    By not vaccinating, parents are endangering those 3% of the population who are unable to be vaccinated, such as newborn babies and those too young to be vaccinated, and those who are ill and unable to be vaccinated...

    It's not dysentery.

    Oh, there is every single justification for it. These individuals need to be singled out, paraded in public for their innate stupidity and then they and their children they deliberately refuse to vaccinate barred from having contact with anyone else.

    When deliberate stupidity and selfishness on this scale results in people dying and becoming permanently damaged as a result of their selfishness and stupidity, then there is every single justification for it.

    That is because they are diseased and immoral in their actions.

    Oh?

    If someone has AIDS and deliberately and knowingly spreads the disease to others, it is a crime. Or do you think they should be allowed to do that?

    And ebola.

    There is a reason why people with such diseases are isolated from the general population.

    The way it should happen is this.

    If a parent(s) refuses to vaccinate their child and their child falls ill with a preventable disease such as the Measles and people fall dangerously ill or die from it, the parents should be charged with attempted murder or manslaughter and imprisoned.

    If you are informed and you deliberately consent to endanger the wider community because of your selfish stupidity, then you should be made to pay the criminal price if people fall ill or die because of your selfish stupidity.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2015
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  7. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

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    You're being dishonest again - I explicitly stated every individual who chose to - those with relevant allergies don't have a choice in the matter, and those that are able to, but choose not to put them at risk.

    No, in your zeal you've taken to violently dishonest tactics when you find your beliefs confronted by factual information. This kind of reaction to trying to hold two conflicting ideas in your head is normal, it's what you do with it next that matters.

    I'm not demonizing anyone - it's basic probability theory, something you'd understand if you had watched that video.

    I mean really - think about what you're saying here. I say that if you increase the percentage of people that are un-vaccinated from 1 in 100 to 1 in 20 that the odds of someone who is vaccinated coming into contact with the pathogen increase and your reaction is to run around invoking an argumentum ad-nazium?

    I think maybe this thread should be left in the public view after all so that others can see your irrational responses.
     
  8. zgmc Registered Senior Member

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    831
    Does anyone have figures on the percentage of non vaccinated vs. vaccinated children by year in the us?
     
  9. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    Thanks. That is the all important data.
    The increased incidence of autism cannot have been attributable to mercury.

    The complete removal of avoidable mercury is probably wise.
    When you are down to 1 microgramme as the safe maximum dose, I think you can take it as said that zero microgrammes is the ideal dose.

    Now they have moved onto Aluminium.
    I have learned, through reading this thread, how harmful aluminium can be to someone suffering renal failure or to premature babies , but I can't accept that it is causing autism in healthy babies.

    It is of course possible that there is another environmental reason for the huge variations, up and down, of autism diagnosis. Not just the method of diagnosis and not ingredients in vaccines, but something else.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2015
  10. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    21,646
    We have excellent proof that people who refuse to vaccinate themselves or their children destroy the protection of "herd immunity" and thus cause the problem you describe. In fact, we have over a century of data that proves that.
     
  11. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    21,646
    Correct. Which is why everyone who can get vaccinated should get vaccinated - because then that 3% is protected.

    Saying "I really don't give a shit, let them die" is pretty indefensible. 3% of America is about 9 million people. (And to use your favorite tactics, Hitler only killed 6 million; you sure you want to use him AND Wakefield as your role models?)
     
  12. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    21,646
    Well, no. Back when vaccines first came out there were a bunch of deaths from contaminated vaccines - which is why they started requiring preservatives. Preservatives are necessarily toxins; they prevent growth of undesirable pathogens in the vaccine. So the ideal dose is the dose that prevents pathogen growth while minimizing toxicity in the resulting vaccine.
     
  13. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

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    10,890
    For example, diagnoses go through fads (usually to 'explain' a childs behaviour).

    At one time the diagnosis of ADHD was popular, then if your kid was naughty they were clearly acting out because they were depressed, these days it seems like every kid and their dog is diagnosed with some degree of autistic spectrum disorder top explain their behaviour - especially since DSM V places ADHD and Autism on the same spectrum, so expect to see another sharp increase in the near future.

    Autism is the new ADHD, Gluten is the new MSG, Sugar is the new Fat.

    Then, in this modern information there's the increasing dissemination of information and ease of access to healthcare professionals which would naturally lead to an apparent rise in the rate of diagnosis even if the disease rate stays the same. Why? Because at the most basic level, parents can now observe their childrens behavioural development, look up the information for themselves and the question to the GP becomes "I think my kid has autism, what do we do next for a diagnosis" where it was once "What's wrong with my kid?"

    "Your son's an introvert? Clearly he's autistic. Next!"
     
  14. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    16,783
    "Only 0.7 percent of children aged 19 to 35 months received absolutely no vaccinations in 2013, according to the National Immunization Survey. But that number masks some of the lower levels of uptake for some vaccines; about 92 percent of children that age, for example, received a dose of the MMR (measles, mumps, and rubella) vaccine.

    Some parents forgo vaccines for economic reasons. Maybe they can't afford to make the trip to the doctor, or they don't have insurance that would pay for vaccines. That helps explain why, generally, vaccination rates are slightly lower for children living in poverty compared to those who aren't.

    And a really small segment of the population skips vaccines for medical reasons — if, for example, a child has a compromised immune system that couldn't handle vaccines.

    Then others opt out of childhood vaccine requirements for school children for religious or philosophical reasons. This map, made by Mother Jones with CDC data, estimates non-medical exemption rates across the US:

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    (Mother Jones)

    Now, this map doesn't capture the variation within states. Some communities might have much lower vaccination rates than the rest of the state. It's these types of clusters that most worry public health officials, since disease outbreaks can take off there and eventually begin trickling out to other parts of the country. (This is what happened during the 2014 measles outbreak in an Ohio Amish community.)
     
  15. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    16,783
    No..Why don't you read the whole thread instead of jumping into the middle of it and ranting ignorantly. I did not make this data up. There are tons of studies supporting the link between vaccines and autism. Refer to the OP for instance. If the issue is so settled why are there these studies out there? Why the rabid attempt to deny this evidence and attack anti-vaxxers as stupid and uninformed. Now I know there is another considerable body of data showing no link between autism and vaccines. But that's just more studies. Studies over here saying there IS a link and studies over there showing there ISN'T a link. So what's the deal? Why the disparity in results? IMO that means the science isn't in yet on this issue. And if I were a parent I would seriously consider this fact before vaccinating my baby. Who can we trust? These parents aren't selfish or immoral. They are simply trying to do what's best for their child. Even if the anti-vax info is bogus, can't you see that it is presented in a convincing enough way to sway innocent parents? This demonizing of people is getting out of hand. Check this out:

    http://time.com/3703769/vaccine-refusal-measels-addresses/
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2015
  16. Bells Staff Member

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    24,270
    No there isn't.

    You are providing data from special interest groups which are anti-vaccination.

    There are no real scientific studies which support this stance. Absolutely none.

    The link was proposed in a now discredited paper published in the medical journal the Lancet in February 1998 by a team of researchers led by Andrew Wakefield. In it the team looked at 12 children with bowel disease who had autism-like symptoms and reported that the onset of these symptoms was associated in eight cases by the kids' parents with the MMR vaccine.

    Wakefield was subsequently struck off the medical register for offences relating to dishonesty and failing to act in the best interests of vulnerable child patients.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Wakefield had received legal aid funding to carry out his study, through lawyers acting for children whose parents believed their autism was caused by the MMR jab and wanted to sue the manufacturers. It was alleged he did not reveal this financial conflict of interest to the journal.

    The GMC investigation into Wakefield centred around inadequate ethical approval for the study. He was charged with putting children through invasive and uncomfortable tests, including colonoscopies and brain scans, which they did not need, in order to try to prove his theory.

    What is the evidence that MMR is not linked to autism?

    The evidence of no link between MMR and autism is now extremely strong. In February 2012, the Cochrane Collaboration - which compiles gold-standard reviews of medical evidence - conducted a huge study into the safety of MMR. This mega-review brought together evidence from 54 difference scientific studies using a variety of methodologies and involving 14.7 million children from around the world.

    The study found "no association" between MMR and autism or a range of other conditions (asthma, leukaemia, hay fever, type 1 diabetes, gait disturbance, Crohn's disease, demyelinating diseases, or bacterial or viral infections).

    A separate study published in 2005 looked at the withdrawal of the MMR vaccine in Japan between 1988 and 1992. It found that the increase in autism spectrum disorders (ASD) in children aged up to seven continued to increase as MMR was withdrawn and afterwards.

    The researchers concluded that the MMR vaccine "cannot explain the rise over time" of ASD, and that withdrawing it "cannot be expected to lead to a reduction in the incidence of ASD".

    The World Health Organisation's Global Advisory Committee on Vaccine Safety has examined the evidence on MMR safety and concluded that "no evidence exists of a causal association between MMR vaccine and autism or autistic disorders".


    A link to the Cochrane mega review can be found here: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD004407.pub3/full

    **Appalled**

    Herd immunity requires around 95% to be vaccinated..
     
  17. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    It's no one's job to go around the internet and delete discredited studies.
     
  18. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    16,783
    Just HOW deadly is measles?

    "The CDC dataset that Orenstein, Perry and Halsey used specifically refers to reported cases of measles. The derived mortality rate is for cases that are serious enough to have been flagged and logged by the agency. The question then becomes, how many cases occurred that weren’t reported, and how (if at all) do these alter the estimated mortality rate?

    In a 2004 review entitled “Measles Eradication in the United States” (an optimistic title, in the light of current events), Orenstein, Papania and Warton make the point that not every case of measles in the US is reported, or at least it wasn’t, when the disease was more common.

    According to their paper, from 1956 to 1960, there were an average of 450 measles-related deaths reported each year in the US, or approximately 1 death per 1000 reported cases. At the time though, it was estimated that more than 90% of Americans had been infected by measles by the age of 15 – equivalent to roughly 4 million children and teens per year. (Langmuir, A.D. (1962), Medical Importance of Measles. Am J Dis Child 103(3):224-226.)

    These data suggest that the chances of dying from measles in the US in the late 1950’s was probably closer to 1 in 10,000.

    Accounting for non-reported cases that led to death, and some uncertainty in the numbers, the mortality rate is realistically likely to be around one in a few thousand. But based on the data, it’s not likely to be as high the one or two deaths per 1,000 that’s being widely cited."

    Did you know the chances of your child dying of a congenital disease are greater that dying of measles? That the risk of dying from injury or violence or suicide is far greater than dying from measles? It's NOT the killer the hysterical vaccinators are making it out to be.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2015
  19. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    16,783
    Measles-mumps-rubella vaccination timing and autism among young African American boys: a reanalysis of CDC data.

    RESULTS: When comparing cases and controls receiving their first MMR vaccine before and after 36 months of age, there was a statistically significant increase in autism cases specifically among African American males who received the first MMR prior to 36 months of age. Relative risks for males in general and African American males were 1.69 (p=0.0138) and 3.36 (p=0.0019), respectively. Additionally, African American males showed an odds ratio of 1.73 (p=0.0200) for autism cases in children receiving their first MMR vaccine prior to 24 months of age versus 24 months of age and thereafter.

    CONCLUSIONS: The present study provides new epidemiologic evidence showing that African American males receiving the MMR vaccine prior to 24 months of age or 36 months of age are more likely to receive an autismdiagnosis.

    The CDC continues to insist that a link between vaccines and autism doesn’t exist, but…last month, they quietly launched a robo-call AND Twitter campaign to ask people for their input on the health impacts of vaccines."====http://www.dcclothesline.com/2015/02/05/bombshell-cdc-whistleblower-admitted-covering-mmr-vaccine-links-autism-granted-immunity-will-testify/
     
  20. Bells Staff Member

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    24,270
    Are you serious?

    In 2013, 145,700 people died of measles globally, mostly children under age 5, according to the World Health Organization. That amounts to about 400 deaths a day, or 16 every hour. A recent measles outbreak anchored in California, where more than 100 cases have been recorded, has put a spotlight on the state’s sizable community of parents against vaccinations.

    "It’s more than irresponsible; it’s offensive,” she said. “It’s almost as if these children that died of measles, because they didn’t die of measles on U.S. soil, it’s like they didn’t count.”


    You are spouting exactly the sort of elitist bullshit that flows out of the anus of anti-vaxxer's.. Measles was on the way to being eradicated globally. Now, we are back to over a hundred thousands of children dying from it globally.

    And you have the cheek to ask just how deadly it really is because the rate of death is lower in the US?

    What the hell is wrong with you?
     
  21. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    12,738
    A lot of self diagnosis is also occuring.
    Suddenly people have realised that they are not rude and annoying, but have Aspergers syndrome.
    They are misunderstood geniuses.
     
  22. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Did you know vaccinated people can spread the virus too for a period of time? Considering the vast numbers of vaccinated, who's really spreading the measles around?

    "Scientific evidence demonstrates that individuals vaccinated with live virus vaccines such as MMR (measles, mumps and rubella), rotavirus, chicken pox, shingles and influenza can shed the virus for many weeks or months afterwards and infect the vaccinated and unvaccinated alike.1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10

    Furthermore, vaccine recipients can carry diseases in the back of their throat and infect others while displaying no symptoms of a disease.11,12,13

    "Numerous scientific studies indicate that children who receive a live virus vaccination can shed the disease and infect others for weeks or even months afterwards. Thus, parents who vaccinate their children can indeed put others at risk," explains Leslie Manookian, documentary filmmaker and activist. Manookian's award winning documentary, The Greater Good, aims to open a dialog about vaccine safety.

    Both unvaccinated and vaccinated individuals are at risk from exposure to those recently vaccinated. Vaccine failure is widespread; vaccine-induced immunity is not permanent and recent outbreaks of diseases such as whooping cough, mumps and measles have occurred in fully vaccinated populations.14,15 Flu vaccine recipients become more susceptible to future infection after repeated vaccination.16, 17

    "Health officials should require a two-week quarantine of all children and adults who receive vaccinations," says Sally Fallon Morell, president of the Weston A. Price Foundation. "This is the minimum amount of time required to prevent transmission of infectious diseases to the rest of the population, including individuals who have been previously vaccinated."

    "Vaccine failure and failure to acknowledge that live virus vaccines can spread disease have resulted in an increase in outbreaks of infectious disease in both vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals," says Manookian, "CDC should instruct physicians who administer vaccinations to inform their patients about the risks posed to others by those who've been recently vaccinated."

    According to the Weston A. Price Foundation, the best protection against infectious disease is a healthy immune system, supported by adequate vitamin A and vitamin C. Well-nourished children easily recover from infectious disease and rarely suffer complications.

    The number of measles deaths declined from 7575 in 1920 (10,000 per year in many years in the 1910s) to an average of 432 each year from 1958-1962.18 The vaccine was introduced in 1963. Between 2005 and 2014, there have been no deaths from measles in the U.S. and 108 deaths from the MMR vaccine."

    - See more at: http://globenewswire.com/news-relea...uals-Spread-Disease.html#sthash.rYc2vVFL.dpuf
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2015
  23. Bells Staff Member

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    24,270
    You cited the report by Hooker?

    The report which was retracted by the journal because it was so false?

    Wow, you really are scraping the bottom of the barrel.

    You hack!

    You should be absolutely ashamed of yourself.

    Your ideology is as bad as those of people who claim that HIV/AIDS is caused by homosexuality and then cite false studies to support their claim. This is exactly the sort of bullshit you are trying to pull here.
     

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