The Guardian The Guardian view on the US torture report: America’s shame and disgrace Editorial Oh, there's a big surprise. The State starts another phony war, labels the people they're killing as Terrorists, and then tortures them. Many innocent people who's only crime was to look "Arab" were subjected to rectal force feeding and daily waterboarding. How f*cking disgusting. It's also not a surprise. None at all. The State started it's first truly fake war in Vietnam. Here American teenaged boys where taught to murder Vietnamese women and children. The raping they did was self taught. Meanwhile the State used chemical warfare that, to this day, is still resulting in tens of thousands of deformed children being born and still born. The State then used the 9/11 attacks to authorize the second fake war, the one against Iraqies and along the way we were introduced to the so-called "Patriot Act". This allowed Bush II to continue his Warmongering while at the same time (just 'coincidentally') authorizes the State to legally spy on each and every one of us. You know 'for the Good of Society'. Oh, that's what Torturing is. Good for Society. And hey, you use the roads. Oh, and to torture other humans - for the Good of Society and our use of The Roads. Given that O-blah-ma was allowed to legally murder a 16 year old child (which he claimed made him 'Good at killing people') I suspect we'll hear of American 'Terrorists' (you know, like Home-schoolers) being tortured and killed in the coming decades. It's pretty much baked in the cake. The final outcome of all Progressive Socialist societies. Its simply a matter of time. The State will continue to grow like the cancer it is until it kills its host. Meanwhile, enjoy normalizing to the depravities of more State violence.
It would seem that throughout history torture was used by many societies. In this case the torture did not kill anyone or inflict any type of injury other than psychological, can't say that of other people who inflict maiming, disfigurement, loss of limbs and death many times. So where was the "guardian" when terrorists were torturing people for fun in Iraq? Where was the "guardian" when terrorists were beheading innocent humans who were only trying to help those who were in need of medical or food aid? The "guardian" seems to be playing one sided journalism when it doesn't report the truth or doesn't bring to light other people who torture as well. The people who were "tortured" by America were found to be terrorists by fighting with weapons against American troops and who were spies or other terrorists that controlled what others in their cells were doing. They blew up innocent people who had no part of the killing that was going on but only doing their desk jobs as best they could or other jobs that normal people do to earn a living. The "Guardian" has only one perspective and that is to stir the pot against the truth and justice. They slant everything one way, their way, and don't expose what we need to know but what only they want us to know.
That's not exactly true, at least one person died, and some of the people tortured were put there only to get other people to talk. It doesn't matter what our enemies do, we know they are capable of the worst. There is absolutely nothing wrong with exposing the CIA for their crimes.
Do you know for a fact it was the torture that killed them or was it because they would not eat or died of natural reasons. For the most part what I said stands.
The man was left half unclothed in a cold room and died of hypothermia. Keeping people in a cold room was one method the CIA used to torture people. It's disturbing when anyone tries to justify this kind of war crime.
While I think it is a bad thing the lives it saved were by the thousands. If you could save your family by torturing those that kidnapped them to find out where they were taken would you do the same?
Nothing new about CIA. I have known for years that the CIA has a long history of doing more damage than good for the USA. I posted the following on 7 August 2006 in thread called: WHY THEY HATE US. (Link to it you can check with is at the end.) Posted here: http://www.sciforums.com/threads/why-they-hate-us.56731/#post-1110114 By 1975, EVERY movement towards democracy in ALL of South America had been destroyed by the CIA's support for right-wing dictatorships. It was the "cold war" era. These movements were usually "left-wing" led. They wanted to take the extremely concentrated wealth from the less than 1% who had 99+% of it and redistribute at least some of the land they owned to the land less, serfs. For typical example of the society the CIA created: Brazil's president until 5 years ago, Lula, was child of parents who could not read and like most was without any shoes until age 12, when he got a discarded pair, already well worn His is an "Abraham Lincoln" story - only much more so, as Lincoln's step mother was well educated - taught Abe well. Lula first became the leader of a large labor union and stood up to the military dictatorship so they threw him in jail. Not expecting almost all of the country's workers to stay home "sick" until he was released. More than anyone else, even the thousands who died trying to restore democracy to Brazil, Lula destroyed the dictatorship and put Brazil back on the road to democracy it enjoys today, but with a lot of corruption still. The rich and powerful always find a way to benefit at the expense of the poor. As an example of this: the best university in all of South America is here in Sao Paulo with ZERO tuition charged. Public elementary schools are terrible (their teachers make less than most maids.) So there are good private schools and even special private classes that teach how to do well on this university's entrance exams. Only the childern of the very rich get admitted and to add salt to the social wound, they can live for free, meals included, in the on campus dorms, but most prefer to live at home and drive their car to campus as dorm rooms are Spartan.
Documentation of a tiny part of why I said "long history" & "more damage than good" at start of post 10 Among the dozens of lesser evils of the CIA, the following one should have at least been mentioned. Congress would not finance sending guns to the "Iran-contras" during the Reagan era, via the leftist Sandinista government in Nicaragua. I think as they feared that left wing government there would just keep them - become too strong to topple. So CIA provided a plane to Noriega, who had long been on the CIA pay roll (suppressing the movement towards democracy in Nicaragua) - A plane to fly drugs into the USA, and sell them and use the funds to buy the guns. My memory is not completely clear on the details, but I think the Iran Contras did get the guns, trans shipped via Nicaragua. Here is what my search turned up: After, a very quick (sham trial) Noriega was incarcerated in a Florida jail and never mentioned in the press again. And very little even at his "trial" was mention of the fact that the CIA had supplied the plane used to deliver strong illegal drugs to the US. (Yes the CIA controls the press often.) We need to take back our country, restore the constitution as a higher law than the CIA.
It's only torture when other countries do it. When Americans do it, it's doing whatever you need to preserve Freedom and Democracy. If you didn't know it was happening that's doubly OK. Let's face it, the US is a rogue state.
Then they all are. No state that so conducts itself - and most of them do, to one extent or another, at one frequency or another - can be considered any better than the Americans. Some are less worse, sure - but not the main antagonists, the US and IS/AQ/MB, the Russians, the Chinese. Their stakes dictate the value of human life. The Americans torture and murder and cover it up. IS/AQ/MB torture and murder and don't. The Russians torture and murder and don't exactly cover it up. The Chinese torture and murder and make you cover it up, which is the basis of the well-known meme the 'Chinese reversal'. I'll damn the Americans, of course, but I'm also going to damn everyone else, including the Soviets and the MB.
So you really don't think thousands of peoples lives weren't saved by ascertaining information from war prisoners? Remember that just one terrorist bombing can kill thousands like that which had happened at office buildings. Could you answer my question of if your family was kidnapped by anyone and you found one of their gangs members would you torture him to get the information he has as to where they are? Or would you just wait and talk to him about learning where they are and he never answers you?
Not a single terror plot was stopped by means of information gained by torture. Your ticking time bomb scenario just doesn't happen in real life.
And you know that how? The news reports say differently as does the military reports. I guess you know something more than they do? Are you ever going to answer my kidnapping your family question?
I'm referring to the recent Senate report, which is what this thread is about. The new reports you may have read were probably based on false information leaked by the CIA in an attempt to justify torture. That's also in the report.
I thought this thread was about torture, could have fooled me. Still no answer on the kidnapping your family? Does that mean you would torture the person that kidnapped your family to find where they are then?
