Tide turning on Circumcision, Push to circumcise all male infants

Well if your just telling people what you think and not actually trying to force them in anyway your not a fascist, just a snub.

Aah but children aren't the same as adults, they don't have the same range of rights as adults.

Societies are allowed to place the limits where they want, not were we tell them. If a society requires jerking off on a child head as a right of passage I'm not going to step in the way of that (ewww!), unless there actions are proven detrimental enough we should not stop them. Our society consider of small sub-societies with are own smaller range or rights, if jews want to circumcise we should not stop them, etc.

I don't think changing how a person wanks it such a crime. Certainly there are more important aspects you could point at.

 

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Does spanking qualify as beating?

 

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Yes. There a vastly more effective ways to give a child guidance than the application of physical violence.

Physical violence rewards the punisher (by giving them what they want immediately) while creating strong negative feeling in the child toward that punisher. Due to his/her circumstances, the child "stuffs" those feelings of rage and lack of control early on. Later these feeling are expressed by participation in anti - social actions such as graffiti, property damage and troubles with school.

The child beater tends to increase the level of violence as time goes by, very much like spousal abusers do. This negatively affects the child's performance in school and work as well as how they create and maintain relationships throughout their life afterward.

As an adult survivor of frequent extreme childhood beatings, I found myself completely ignorant of proper child rearing technique when I became an adult and so had to learn that skill from scratch. I did so and am glad that I did, my son and I have a great relationship and I enjoy it very much. All of the major problem areas (sex, drugs, property, etc) have not been an issue for us with him.

I figure it like this: if I hit someones child, that constitutes battery. How does that change ethically and morally if it is my child that I hit instead of someone else's?

 

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Addition: this is a very important topic to me and I have studied it for my entire adult life. I would be glad to elaborate on alternative guidance strategies if there is interest in that, just let me know.

 

Guiding a child is not about ideology, its about the child: every child is different, some children as spanky is all that works, for some not even that.

Certainly Stoniphi is creating a Straw Man by equality spankings with general or vicious child beating, the world is not so black and white.

Certainly you can start out with gentile guidance and non-physical punishment techniques, but if that does not work spanking is at least worth a try, sometimes live may need to be tough and brutal to do what is necessary.

 

I suppose I take a mixed view between Stoniphi and ElectricFetus. It isn't a black and white issue.

But then again, aren't we supposed to be talking about that tiny bit of penis skin? Thirty pages tells me it is a topic of the utmost importance!

 

Yes it is, but the 30 pages are mostly due to some decent trolling by our little friend.

While he is himself uncircumcised, is not a parent and has no actual personal experience with this topic at all, he is adamant in his proselytization of genital mutilation of children and dismissive of any risks involved. IMHO he has a significant personal issue that he is working out here.

I have tolerated almost 60 years of pain and discomfort from having been subjected to this particular form of child abuse and am speaking out against it, as I have been against other forms of child abuse. When I first started complaining, no-one was interested. 50 years later I am no longer a single voice raised against crimes committed on children. I will live to see the routine genital mutilation of babies cease as well. Call me an activist, I help get things changed.

The choice on spanking is pretty straightforward: spank your kids and you make their lives - and yours - harder, engage with them instead and give them a leg up in this world. As educated parents, my wife and I have made our choice and are extremely pleased with the results.

My son still thanks me for not whacking off the end of his wee - wee as well.

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Do we really have a 30 page debate about wieners?

~String

 

Be glad that it was about skin and not size.

 

Agreed.

 

If it were about size, I'd have been a regular participant. Having seen, been with, stood along all versions, shapes, sizes, dimensions and abnormalities, I can safely provide perspective on all accounts.

~String

 

No thanks for me.

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*************
M*W: First they cut off the foreskin. Next they manipulate the DNA. What is this world coming to?

 

Who doing that.

 

Guys.. check this out. This article, from back in January, is practically a carbon copy of the original post manthony posted in the beginning of this thread, and it yet again illustrates a Jewish author (Rosenburg) trying to promote circumcision by leading others to think the CDC will recommend the procedure as routine. That prediction was due for this summer. Well... it's the summer... and no such prediction has come true. It does note the dramatic fall in circumcision rates over the decades, however.

See ya's all again December, when another false prediction will have turned up untrue.

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manthony makes or believes in false predictions, nooo shit?

 

Well the studies claim VERY MODEST improvements with circumcision. In fact with claimed percentages which are so small that it is pretty hard to believe That they are actually significant enough to justify the claim that the difference was caused by circumcision as it's nearly impossible to account for all other variables when dealing with humans:

Human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) was reduced by 53% to 60%.

Herpes simplex virus type 2 (HSV-2) was reduced by 28% to 34%.

Human papillomavirus (HPV) was reduced by 32% to 35%.


BUT

It turns out that the studies were done in developing countries, so the minor benefits may not even apply to people living in developed countries.

Which might be why the AAP still says:

Arthur

 

Rates in countries besides the US:
The Canadian Institute for Health Information reports a rate of 20% for the mid-1990s declining to 9% in 2005.

Australian Medicare statistics [O'Donnell, 2004], which relate only to rebate claims for circumcision, and are thus underestimates, show a rate for circumcision in 2004 in infants of 17% Australia-wide. The actual rate would therefore be somewhere between 17% and the 32% figure above for males aged 16-20.

New Zealand:
For boys born in the early 1970s the rate was 40%, but has since declined.

In England, rate at age 15 was reported in 1989 as 7% [Rickwood & Walker, 1989] and in 2000 as 4%

Scandanavia: 2% [Frisch et al., 1995].

Taiwan: 7% by age 7

Arthur

 

adoucette, dont discount the fact that circumcision (for males) had very real medical benefits. Although that is not so true today.

 

Really?

Which ones?

By the way, ever seen one done?

Only one word to describe it, BARBARIC

see: www dot natus dot com/index.cfm?page=products_1&crid=110&contentid=203

Arthur