The true Islam - Misconceptions and media distortions aside

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Yosef, Sep 7, 2010.

  1. IamJoseph Banned Banned

    I am on topic. The true Islam and religious mythology: Moses was a muslim - the Al Aqsa mosque is not built on the Jewish temple site. You have a problem of evasion. Yes/no?
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  3. Neverfly Banned Banned

    This is like a fish asking a goat if the goat has a problem with swimming.
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  5. Sock puppet path GRRRRRRRRRRRR Valued Senior Member

    It is you who are misinformed

    I was referring to what the companions of Muhammed did the people who actually knew him and heard his message they didn't have to read it.
    Islam gives it's followers a code of conduct, dress, prayer, laws etc if a religions followers can't follow the teachings of a religion then it is useless.
    We have some names for people who profess one thing yet act otherwise, hypocrites and or liars.

    Where did I say muslims are murderers? quote me.

    I managed to force my way through about 65% of it before giving up it is just too disjointed, tiresome and contradictory (abrogations etc.) for my tastes.
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  7. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    We are giving Islam the name of what its believers do explicitly in its name, officially justify by its edicts and scriptures, and overtly claim is their religious belief. Yep.

    The parallel to your claim would be that "true America" was never racist, never slave traded, and never murdered.

    If such a parallel ever had any reason behind it, America being a country rather than a fixed system of belief.
  8. Shadow1 Valued Senior Member

    hmm,then christanity is also a terrorist relegion, telling it's people to kill ALL non christians, etc... because christians did the worst things, killed entire civilisations, millions and millions and millions of people, on the name of the christ and christanity.....
  9. Shadow1 Valued Senior Member


    also, islmaists, 'not muslims) there's a idfference, just use relegion as a coverfor their durty jobs, but still not a good cover afterall
  10. Sock puppet path GRRRRRRRRRRRR Valued Senior Member

    Indeed christianity hasn't been much better historically. One telling difference is that christians never lead any violent campaigns before it was adopted as the official religion of rome some 300 years after it's start.
  11. Shadow1 Valued Senior Member

    there's a difference between islamists, and muslims, muslims are the normal people, peacefull, kind, just normal people, like everyone else, their relegion is islam, islamists, are the people, who are muslims, and, add things, and do things, and say things, like, being fanatic, and, and their goal is politics, and not relegion or fixing the society problems, or anywya, or helping people, and they are complexed, sick people, criminals, etc... and wich effcorse, islamists are not everywhere, they are few. and islamists are not all criminals, they can be just, like, not normal, but not murders or criminals, they are just islamicd, and their goal is politics, but don't do any murders, or against law, or the horrible things to people..and just for your notes, muslims, hate islamists.
  12. Yosef Registered Senior Member

    I find it unfortunate that many people in the west think of Islam as harsh and intolerant. Many of their ideas are based on the bad doings of some few people. Islam talks about all aspects of life: how to relate to one's neighbors, caring for the sick, giving money for the poor, gaining good knowledge, being good husbands, treating mom and dad nicely, caring for humanity, asking for paradise and many other topics.

    I believe that time should be invested by each one of us in order to get to know God better. I read the Holy Quran. I see the beauty of the text and realize how mighty God is. I read His guidelines and see how wise He is. It is not God's plan to put so-called restrictions on human life in order to deprive them of some good things. Quite the contrary. By obeying God, light and grace is placed by Him in our hearts. Life hassles get easier to tackle, our free time becomes more rewarding, conflicts get avoided, relationship problems become easier to manage, more can be done with less time and money, less headache etc... It is light upon light, as God says in the Holy Quran.

    I would like to present for you today a Qudsi saying of the prophet Muhammad (pbuh). This means words of God Himself not revealed to be part of the Holy Quran itself. Usually, these take a form similar to normal human communication and they don't have the unique linguistic structures characteristic of the Holy Quran. Here is today's saying:

    On the authority of Abu Dharr al-Ghifari (may Allah be pleased with him) from the Prophet (PBUH) is that among the sayings he relates from his Lord (may He be glorified) is that He said:

    "O My servants, I have forbidden oppression for Myself and have made it forbidden amongst you, so do not oppress one another. O My servants, all of you are astray except for those I have guided, so seek guidance of Me and I shall guide you, O My servants, all of you are hungry except for those I have fed, so seek food of Me and I shall feed you. O My servants, all of you are naked except for those I have clothed, so seek clothing of Me and I shall clothe you. O My servants, you sin by night and by day, and I forgive all sins, so seek forgiveness of Me and I shall forgive you. O My servants, you will not attain harming Me so as to harm Me, and will not attain benefitting Me so as to benefit Me. O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to be as pious as the most pious heart of any one man of you, that would not increase My kingdom in anything. O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to be as wicked as the most wicked heart of any one man of you, that would not decrease My kingdom in anything. O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to rise up in one place and make a request of Me, and were I to give everyone what he requested, that would not decrease what I have, any more that a needle decreases the sea if put into it. O My servants, it is but your deeds that I reckon up for you and then recompense you for, so let him finds good praise Allah and let him who finds other that blame no one but himself."​

    It was related by Imam Muslim (also by at-Tirmidhi and Ibn Majah).

    More Qudsi sayings can be found at this address:
    Source: Center for Muslim-Jewish Engagement - University of Southern Calefornia

    Bless you God.
  13. Neverfly Banned Banned

    Yosef, what religion doesn't call for treating others well of doing well for oneself?
    But as with many others, islam does have some bloodthirst in it, left over from the ancient days when times were more violent in the 'civilized world.'
    Islam is eyeballed frequently, though, not for just what is claimed as much as how strictly it is claimed.

    I cannot deny, I take issue with a belief system that tells me I must ask forgiveness from God every time I fart.
  14. Shadow1 Valued Senior Member



    "civilived world"? dude, idk think the parts that you're talking about are a civilized places....
    are tunisians blood thirsty? are they fanatics? are they extremists?
    are "another country" blood thirsty?...

    pleas, don't talk ignorantly, you talk about something, proove it.
    if you are talking about "islamists" not "Muslims", yes i can agree on all what you say, and if you are talking about "muslims" or "islam", then, get educated...again, then get educated, you can clearly see how can i always accept new things and always can discuss and correct my informations, without trying to prrove something i'm not sure of , or something not true, etc... with all my respect. If you have respect, you are very welcome to discuss with you, if not, well, you know.. let's find our first

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    (sorry about what i said if you think it is personnal(wich it is not), but, it's just the bad experience about you (generale you, not you you) here on sciforums. with all my respect)
  15. Neverfly Banned Banned

    Was I really just asked this? You know, the Old Testament of the Bible contains many such things, as well.
    I'm going to post the verses, but no translations so that you can look up the verses in the proper language.
    Quran (9:5)
    Quran (8:12)
    Quran (4:89)
    Quran (2:191-193)
    Quran (2:244)
    Quran (2:216)
    Quran (4:76)
    Quran (4:95)
    Quran (3:56)
    Quran (3:151)
    Quran (4:74)
    Quran (4:95)
    Quran (8:39)
    Quran (9:30)

    A few... can post more...

    Shadow, I like you as a poster and I don't particularly wish to build an enmity here. But, I take exception to someone claiming I'm spouting ignorance while their claim is full of misspellings and bad grammar. I am ignorant about a great deal of things. But I try hard not to TALK ignorantly.

    "islamists" : Those who find the scripture pure, as fundamentalists and are more liable to use confrontation to enforce their views.
    "Mulsims" (Capitalized) : Those that believe and adhere to the five basic Pillars of Islam. The different sects of Islam will have differing views of how to adhere.
    "muslim" (Lower case) : Arabic word meaning obedient to God. Applies to things that do not have "souls" but adhere to Gods design. Plants will grow. Rocks will set - simply because they have no free will.

    I'm sure some people clump groups together. There are Muslims that behave according to how they feel that Islam can better their own lives. There are also Islamists that feel that the scripture guides them to commit terrible acts.
    Let's face it-- One that believes in violence needs no excuse.

    But this does not detract from the one simple statement that I had made: The scriptures contain bloodthirsty references.
  16. Yosef Registered Senior Member

    In fact, you need to be thankful for each breath that God gives you. Can anyone guarantee for you that you will wake up tomorrow alive ?! Be thankful for God who is giving you the time needed to learn, see and hopefully sense the truth. The truth that takes the form of a firm belief and light that travels to every corner of your body and spirit. It shines out of the heart.

    As to the verses... There are volumes upon volumes that are written about those issues... There is much knowledge that you are not aware of, e.g. as to the concrete contexts the verses where revealed at... And you seem to think that the Holy Quran replaces the earlier revelations. It does not. They all need to be taken together. Everyone is going to believe in God ultimately i.e. at end of times. Every Jew and Christian are going to accept Jesus peace upon him as a prophet of God. God talks about this in the Holy Quran.
  17. Neverfly Banned Banned

    Ummmm - NO. You don't get to proselytize me.
    You believe in such, but that is not the topic of this thread. The topic is about misconceptions.

    I am not grateful to that which does not exist, nor that which takes no part in whether or not I live or die. I don't understand how a person can feel righteous about themselves passing on the Responsibility of Life by divining it all as a Grand Plan of an invisible Pink Unicorn. A drunk driver that hits a vehicle resulting in a fatality is guilty of manslaughter, not some unknown supernatural entity controlling events to cause a drunk driver to kill another. I find that to be a disturbing and mentally unhealthy lifestyle.

    There is no such thing as a Spirit and labeling things as Truth that cannot be observed, measured or examined in any way whatsoever is nothing more than making an illusion to support your preconceptions.

    I spoke on topic- I'll not be preached to, thanks.
    The context.
    That is the FIRST tactic always put out there- "You don't understand the context."

    Aww Be Honest With Yourself!
    Scriptures that tell you to kill are scriptures to tell you to kill. End Of Story.
    Or what?

    You make that sound so forceful.

    Well, I'm not going to.

    You can dislike that. But your invisible pink unicorn means nothing to me. God didn't talk in any holy book because God does not exist. Some GUY wrote that stuff down. Some OTHER guy wrote the Christian Version and some OTHER guy wrote the Mormon version... Then they all disagreed and hated each other because unlike the REAL World- No one could provide Any Evidence To Support their Claims. They split off, each one believing they had the TRUTHâ„¢ ! Whatever...
    There is no spirit, no such thing as a soul and when I die, my brain will cease to function and that will be the End Of Me. I will not go to Hell as there is no such place and I will not live on after death because My Brain Will Rot.

    So you can take that "Everyone WILL Believe" and shove it up your sinful place.
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2010
  18. Shadow1 Valued Senior Member

    i'm out of this thread, this is a lost effort for me, and would be a waste of time

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  19. Shadow1 Valued Senior Member

    hmm, Neverfly, why are you angry and stuff?
    are you like...the rest of..hypocrites around here?

    (to all)hmm, why can't you people keep a respectfull opened discussion?
  20. Shadow1 Valued Senior Member


    Now Like THAT you can be a good terrorist! go read and understand it as you read it, also, english version, suck, i know, i readed once some verses in english and in arabic, it totally changd the meaning, because the traduction is not presice and smart to keep the exactl meaning, also in arabic yu can find a word, with even 5 meanings, etc... arabic grammar and ways of writing and trying to say things and meanings, like in some poetry, and etc.. are faar more developed than in english

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    so it need to be a smart translation
  21. Neverfly Banned Banned

    Because that was disrespectful on his part.

    The problem is that we have, as a society, deemed it something to be tolerated for politics.

    See, if a Serial killer comes up and starts claiming the virtues of Necromania to me, I'm liable to tell him flatly where to Get Off.

    When some nutjob claims that 9-11 was an inside job- we call him a whacko.

    When some conspiracy theorist will stop at nothing and ignore all evidence to claim we never landed on the Moon, we call him a Woo Woo.

    When some pseudo-scientific garbage is spewed out- we refer to the spewer as a Crackpot.

    The Absurd is not tolerated.

    Why should it be any different if a person that believes in the absolutely absurd invisible pink unicorn controlling the Universe with a divine plan comes up and starts ramming it down my throat? Why is it dictated that then I must be tolerant when he cares not one bit about the forceful way in which he shoves his indoctrination onto me?

    I step Outside of Society- I'm my Own Man. And I won't put up with someone shoving such absurdities down my throat. Telling me that I WILL believe it. Nuh uh. Dude needs a reality check.
    I got some Big Bang for ya to accept.

    How many verses did I post?

    And they are ALL wildly inaccurate translations?

    I find that hard to believe.
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2010
  22. Shadow1 Valued Senior Member

    this show how you don't know anything about islam.
  23. Shadow1 Valued Senior Member


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