Sociopaths

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by skaught, Feb 20, 2011.

  1. John99 Banned Banned

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    And like i said earlier, recognizing and identifying a problem does not equate to it being present more.
     
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  3. quinnsong Valued Senior Member

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  5. John99 Banned Banned

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    you obviously dont know the specifics though.
     
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  7. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

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    They emphasize responsibility to others way, way more than we do.

    I semi-jokingly say that they guilt their kids. But it's more than half-true.

    Below the age of 6 a a brain is an exceedingly pliable thing...so learning responsibility to others from the time they are old enough to talk...having it programmed in like that... I seriously think that's the difference.

    Brains are pliable throughout the lifespan, but more so from birth to six.
    Oddly enough, a baby's born with more neurons than they are going to use...and those are pruned back. (the more touch/talk/attention the baby gets, the more neurons they retain) Neurogenesis also happens a lot easier at this time. It occurs into adulthood, but at a very reduced rate:

    http://www.sfn.org/index.aspx?pagename=brainbriefings_adult_neurogenesis

    So I'm suspecting those brain connections that think of responsibility to family are very much enhanced in Asian toddlers and small children, leading to lower sociopathy in those populations.

    It's like this: there is no psych disorder with 100% heritability. There's a lot with strong heritability, yes, but none are 100%.

    That says right there that what happens in the occurrence of any psych issue is a combination of genetic predisposition and brain development.

    So the Asian people are developing differently, and stressing social connections is the cardinal difference.
     
  8. John99 Banned Banned

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    Meh...i view people more as individuals. There are too many successful people with bad childhoods and too many bad people with good childhoods.

    On heritability: i havent seen anything that shows a conclusive connection. Tbh, many or even most children grow up to be very different from their parents.
     
  9. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

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    If you mean on sociopathy, I'll give you that...if you mean on other psych disorders...

    ADHD 75%: http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/289350-overview

    Depression-42% women, 29% men in a huge study: http://www.biopsychiatry.com/depression-heritability.htm

    Bipolar-15% to 30% with one bipolar parent, 50 to 75% chance if both parents are:
    http://bipolar.about.com/od/pregnancy/f/inherit_bipolar.htm

    A study linking bipolar, schizophrenia, and finding strong familial linkage:

    http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/587148
     
  10. John99 Banned Banned

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    I dont study or try to figure out the intricacies of those and not claiming to be an expert but many times they merge normal personality traits (although sometimes not average traits) as negative but historically many successful people would today be viewed as showing some signs of many of those disorders. I mean scientists, inventors, writers etc. so not only successful at making money.
     
  11. John99 Banned Banned

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    But also, its funny that if the person did succeed or produce something valuable their supposed disorders are overlooked. I guess that is common human nature though.
     
  12. birch Valued Senior Member

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    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2242349/
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy


    there is probably some genetic link for psycopathy and some sociopathy. i mean, besides the research, that does make sense. people who are cruel would more likely have children that are, not in all cases as there is a large gene pool and any combination could surface, but more likely just as nicer people would more likely have nicer children etc. aggressive people are more likely to have aggressive children etc. it's not just physical traits that are passed on but also personality and character traits.
     
  13. quinnsong Valued Senior Member

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    I posted some links earlier John, read them!
     
  14. birch Valued Senior Member

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    from what i know of sociopaths, this probably would fail miserably. this is because a sociopath is selfish and wouldn't really care about the classes etc, they may pretend they do but they aren't wanting to change. everything would be viewed as something to manipulate or whatever hoops they have to jump through. looking back on hindsight, i think sociopathy is largely a genetic issue with very little to do with environmental. these people will use you even in the good times which shows it's a basic part of their makeup. that is what they are.

    what deters a sociopath is punishment. the soft approach, especially with sociopaths is like sniffing blood to them. it's quite scary. they back away from people they can't do something to or don't have what they want and that is all that is going to stop them besides laws in some cases. people who don't have stronger self-defense mechanisms is who they target. they only respect other sociopaths or in a very self-serving way, those that sacrifice themselves for their wants/needs.

    besides that, the surprising truth is society likes sociopaths for the most part as long as they don't cause too much of a public ruckus or embarassment. i think it's because there are much more sociopaths in society than what society would like to admit. even sociopaths don't want to be personally troubled or violated. they want to live their life like anyone else. think about it, people don't gain power at least traditionally without being aggressive or even amoral. that is what nature was built on and that is the genetic makeup so there is some level of sociopathy in general society or at least it's hidden or passive aggressive. if you look at society, you'll notice that people who are really kind will get stomped on and people who disrupt the society such as serial killers, serial rapists etc are also what society wants to get rid of. so, for the most part society is kind of leans more towards sociopathy in general at least for now. so in other words, they are not 'really' sincere about getting rid of sociopaths when a lot of them have sociopathic traits or maneuvers themselves. it's like asking if society wants to get rid of the majority of themselves or stop the shit you're doing. kind of funny in a twisted way.

    you can easily see past the bullshit. didn't one article say that sociopaths makeup like roughly four percent of the population (lol)? only?

    go to any school and watch (and consistently) how those who exhibit more sociopathic traits such as aggression, narcissism and arrogance be more admired while those who are more vulnerable or nice are ignored, scoffed at or bullied. watch how most adults admire those in power and riches, rather than someone humble and sweet.

    it's obvious that society in general leans more toward or favors sociopathic traits. of course they are not going to want to admit it.

    they also exist in every socioeconomic level. they could be like what you described to blue-collar to professional.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2011
  15. quinnsong Valued Senior Member

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    My older brother is one of six children and is a sociopath and hyperactive, whoo talk about a whirlwind! He is the oldest child of 2 people who had children as a result of being irresponsible sex addicts and as a result had 5 children in 5 years. Neither had the capacity to nurture or bond with any of the children as they were to concerned with their bad habits and their active social lives. According to my mom my brother hit his head several times trying to get out of crib so this could be a factor.:shrug:

    My brother has been successful(money) off and on through his life and he consistently has taken risks even with his own child to get himself out of trouble. My parents, law enforcement, schools and even mental health professionals have not been successful at even deterring his behavior in the least.

    The only time my brother seemingly acted normal was when he smoked pot, but he did not like the way pot made him feel though, so him acting normal was shortlived! He did like drugs like cocaine and amphetamines that amplified his behavior and I always wondered if pot made him feel emotionally connected to others and this was why he didnt like it. Just a thought though, no proof!
     
  16. birch Valued Senior Member

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    just from what you describe, nothing there indicates he is necessarily a sociopath. people can have different problems which may be confused with another disorder. just because he is irresponsible doesn't necessarily mean one is a sociopath. he could be severely manic/bipolar or it could be something else entirely.
     
  17. quinnsong Valued Senior Member

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    How right you are Birch, my mothers business partners thought my brother was the cats meow because of his fearlessness and aggression! Lol, even the Army gave him rave reviews, until he broke into office w/ top secret files!
     
  18. quinnsong Valued Senior Member

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    Believe me birch he is a sociopath! I have so many stories regarding my brother and his lack of empathy and his narcissism that I would be here all night! Some too painful and too embarrassing to tell!
     
  19. quinnsong Valued Senior Member

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    In thinking about how to treat sociopathic behavior at a young age, mental healh professionals may want to use some of the same methods as used in treating autism.
     
  20. KilljoyKlown Whatever Valued Senior Member

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    If it wasn't for the fact that you missed my point completely, I would agree with everything you said. That may be understandable on this thread as there is a tremendous amount of information coming faster than any other thread I've monitored.

    Anyway my point is for society to act in a way that will prevent new personality disorders from developing in the first place. The plan I outlined would do that and very much more, but getting people to accept it, is a problem that probably can't be overcome. However that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.
     
  21. KilljoyKlown Whatever Valued Senior Member

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    For the most part I agree with what you say about sociopaths. However I don't agree that it is mostly a genetic problem. That doesn't mean I don't think genetics doesn't play a part or that my plan would be 100%. But you wouldn't have millions of immature children having children, and not to many sociopaths would even be interested in applying to have a child, which most will agree is a very good thing as sociopaths don't make the best roll models, and let's not forget that drug addicts would have a hard time qualifying to have a child even if they could get up enough interest to apply.

    I also think that during the first 6 to 7 years of a child's life, the brain goes through some major development, which concerned observant loving parents could influence in a positive way.

    Aside from the possible benefits of reducing the sociopath population, most will have to agree the other things I mentioned would be a big plus for children, and after the first 20 years we would know for sure on the sociopath issue.
     
  22. birch Valued Senior Member

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    i think this is a common misconception about sociopaths. sociopaths are not affected by upbringing from what i can tell. having 'nice' and 'caring' parents has nothing to do with it or even a stable home life. i grew up with two sociopaths both of which came from traditional two parent families who have been married all their life with other siblings. they were not poor, they were not druggies, they were not uneducated etc. there is nothing about their families that stand out from the rest. what i did personally notice is that there are some general commonalities between the parents and the sociopaths, mainly that there was some kind of cruel or immoral streak that they both had in common. does that mean they can't function in society? no. does that mean sociopaths need 'tender love' or something and that would change them? no. actually they feel fine according to their nature just like a croc is fine being a croc. they are not "hurting" inside or confused. those genes are going to surface in a way genetically that will eventually produce a sociopath. it's inevitable and i think that's how it happens.

    however, there are other problems that arise out of a society from people who may be impoverished, from poor parenting or neglect etc. but even though these may have negative consequences in the society doesn't necessarily mean those people who exhibit irresponsibility such as teenagers having children or even some juvenile delinquents, petty theft and crime etc are sociopaths. these are other issues which can be complicated though some may be sociopaths, many may be just acting out due to a combination of ignorance, peer pressure, or impoverishment. sociopaths are not "acting out", they are in control with an agenda. there could be ways to minimize a lot of problems that do happen but society would have to change first.

    sociopaths will always exist until perhaps greater knowledge of the brain as well as further biomedical technology is developed to change them or prevent them in the first place.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2011
  23. KilljoyKlown Whatever Valued Senior Member

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    Like I said bad genes probably do play a part, and I wanted to include the whole range of personality disorders. The way I understand it most sociopaths are not identified until in their teens or twenties so how much is really known about how early detection might be used to affect a better outcome. Also it has been pointed out that each sociopath is still an individual and has a unique way of dealing with reality. If nothing else how they grow up will be a big influence on how they deal with their life and reality. How many sociopaths succeed in life? I guess what I'm trying to get at here is if one thinks of the sociopath as being handicapped then the handicap can be compensated for if the right people get involved early enough in the sociopaths life. Regardless of how normal a sociopath feels about themselves, they could be trained in all the ways of good citizenship and made aware of how to deal with their handicap in a relationship.
     

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