Sociopaths

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by skaught, Feb 20, 2011.

  1. quinnsong Valued Senior Member

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    Killjoy your ideas would go a long way in solving many problems not just sociopathy, but like you said prolly not gonna happen. Too many rights are infringed upon!
     
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  3. birch Valued Senior Member

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    succeed? sociopaths can succeed well in life. it depends on the sociopath and how intelligent they are as well as how manipulative they are or how good they are at choosing their marks, situations and covering their tracks.

    they ARE good citizens to the outside world. it's what they do in private and behind four closed walls that could be the monstrous evil.
     
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  5. KilljoyKlown Whatever Valued Senior Member

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    Actually it wouldn't infringe on anybodies rights. There is nothing in the Bill of Rights that says people have the right to breed indiscriminately. Also anybody that wanted kids, could do a little planning to meet the reasonable requirements, and anybody that has a problem with that is not likely to be a fit parent. As long as you want to bring up rights. What about the right of every child that is born to have a good start in life? How is it possible for a child to have a good start if it's mother or father is a drug addict or criminal and children having children is still a big problem to the new born. If individuals can't be counted on to control themselves with safe sex practices then the society itself needs to step in. They could start out by educating the population via the TV. How hard could it be to show people how much better it could be for all people in this country if the criminal population could be reduced by 90%. After all most wanted children don't grow up to be criminals.

    No one thinks we should let people drive a car without first qualifying for a drivers license. I think having children is to important to this countries future to allow indiscriminate breeding by irresponsible people.
     
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  7. birch Valued Senior Member

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    how many times does it have to be stated that sociopaths exist in all socioeconomic levels of society? how many examples have to be posted?

    yes, your sociopath was perhaps a trailer park junkie with five kids from three different dads but not all sociopaths are like that or in that situation. nor are all people who happen to have several relationships or broken relationships, drug addicts, alchoholics etc necessarily sociopaths. safe sex practices??? you think that is what a sociopath is ignorant of??? some sociopaths can be drug addicts, alchoholics, have several children from different women/men, be divorced or single and there are those that don't fit that profile.

    you seem to think that sociopaths are just only the ones who don't succeed in life, perhaps uneducated or are poor.

    there are sociopaths who come from solid two parent homes, even ones where that was their first and only marriage and their parents are STILL married, middle to upper-middle class and are not "drug addicts", in a trailer park, on welfare, running around on the streets etc.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2011
  8. KilljoyKlown Whatever Valued Senior Member

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    Good point. But when I use the term good citizen, I mean in private too. Let me ask this question. Are there jobs that society needs to have done that would be best done by a sociopath? If so, maybe we could make the sociopath an asset rather than a problem?

    Anyway, just a thought.
     
  9. KilljoyKlown Whatever Valued Senior Member

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    Sorry I went off topic with that comment. I wasn't talking about sociopaths in that response.
     
  10. birch Valued Senior Member

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    what? the military? but they do live in society. it's not like they are on the front lines all the time.

    you don't find 'out' sociopaths anyways. sociopaths are rather covert.

    what is horrendous about a sociopath is they view compassion or kindness like an "invitation" to exploit someone. they do not respect it because they are completely selfish. it doesn't work on them as how we think logic works such as be kind to them, they will be kind in return, it must be some hurt in their heart etc. none of that is true. i know as i tried to do that and i learned the very hard way, they are truly monsters. they are so selfish that they will try to get you to "apologize" to them for exactly what they did to YOU and take the blame!
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2011
  11. quinnsong Valued Senior Member

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    Hey Killjoy you're preaching to the choir! I have long thought that parenting should require licensing and be regulated. But you are talking about a very socialized and sanitary state and well, many Americans already are screaming evil government over a weak health care bill.
     
  12. KilljoyKlown Whatever Valued Senior Member

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    Yes you hit that nail on the head. What you just said I know only to well. After a few years it gets easy to recognize the patterns of behavior they use to get what they want. First and foremost, if she was nice to you, she always wanted something from you. Once she got what she wanted she was rarely nice and usually abusive. If you said no to her, she would start on a routine, like making promises she would never keep and if that didn't work she would start belittling you with name calling and whatever else she knew would piss you off and keep it up for as long as you were around to hear. If that wasn't working she would then start using various intimidation techniques escalating as time passed. Sense she was a proven master at getting her way with men and she knew lots of unsavory criminals, drug users and dealers, well you can easily imagine the pressure her brand of intimidation would have over time, even if you didn't think she would ever go through with it.
     
  13. KilljoyKlown Whatever Valued Senior Member

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    I can't tell you how much I hate sniveling self serving politicians. When I go to the polls to vote, I find myself voting against people rather than voting for people. How wrong is that? But when I talk to others I find I have lots of company.
     
  14. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

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    Just because you succeed despite your mental problems doesn't mean you don't have them.
    That's like saying a millionaire who gets around in a wheelchair isn't paraplegic...

    A certain type of bipolar tend to make a very good entrepreneur ...the kind who stay in hypomania the vast majority of the time? You may be familiar with the type? brilliant? mercurial, prone to rash decisions, both good and bad? has occasional days where their whole world craters? Needs very little sleep?

    They have a tendency to take those businesses they make and bankrupt them through crappy financial decisions.

    Think Donald Trump, he's an exemplar of the type. And he's gone bankrupt too, I believe. OTOH he's clawed his way back.

    What I suppose you may be trying to get at, John, is that a person's disorder isn't necessarily a reason to assume they can't roll with it and do well, even perhaps find a way to turn what they have into an asset.

    And that's awfully nice of you. Thanks

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    Yes, they are complete little bubbles of ego. Once their personhood is formed, there's really no getting to them...

    but Asians seem to rear a lot less of them. So maybe the key is very early intervention?
     
  15. birch Valued Senior Member

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    please don't do that, paint drug users as some type of sociopath. that's very ignorant. there are victims who have no other way to alleviate their pain or are lost who have turned to drugs and got hooked. there are orphaned children and homeless children even in other countries that sniff aerosol or glue to alleviate the pain of their everyday existence. just because one is a drug addict, doesn't mean they are a sociopath. one would have to know them personally and what transpired to get them to that position as well as thier circumstances. i know that person you describe is a sociopath but there are far worse ones out there that would make her look like small-time, which she is.

    there are drug dealers who have more morals than some monsters out there, believe me. they can have more heart than them, that's what's amazing about it.

    there are sociopaths who appear squeaky clean (even have no criminal record), go to church and live in mainstream society who can be likened to satanic monsters.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2011
  16. quinnsong Valued Senior Member

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    When one has had personal dealings w/ sociopaths on an ongoing basis one has to cut that emotional bond for their own happiness and survival!

    One incident that helped me begin to do just that happened in middle school. While on a school bus a couple of older boys who lived in the neighborhood were picking on a kid and I got mad and called them both assholes. Well as we got off bus these 2 older and bigger boys grabbed me and took me to woods w/ my brother in tow and proceeded to try to take my clothes off and humiliate me. My brother just stood there as if nothing was happening, even laughing about it, not lifting a finger to help me and then ran off with the 2 boys to hang out. Let me tell you I was shocked to my core!
     
  17. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

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    Drug addiction and sociopathic people...hmm.

    Birch, correct me if I'm wrong here...

    This is what I think...that sociopaths will be more likely to get hooked depending on how restrained their impulses are.

    The really impulsive ones are going to get hooked, but intelligence, restraint, and calculation are all going to reduce their chances of getting hooked.
    The colder and more functional sociopaths may use but aren't going to get hooked-their high is manipulating others/tormenting others/victimizing others and they want all their faculties present for that activity.

    Now, a drug addict is going to eventually start looking like a sociopath, but the internal dynamic is way different...what's going on is almost always a running from what caused them to compulsively use in the first place...that gets more and more frantic and focused as the addiction sets in harder and tolerance to the substance builds.

    If you break this cycle, trauma usually floats to the top immediately, I'm given to understand...this from what people going into AA and getting sober have written (If you don't think that's a legit source, I could go digging...)

    BTW, I found this reference: http://www.9types.com/wwwboard/messages/18332.html

    It lists "failure to learn from mistakes" and "failure to control impulses" as attributes of Antisocial Personality Disorder...

    The thing is, I'm actually almost 100% certain that there are sociopaths who control their impulses and learn from their mistakes just fine. Well, they don't think of them as mistakes, I'm sure, nobody as perfect as themselves could make mistakes...but they polish and refine tactics, yes.

    That not only seems perfectly reasonable, it fits the observed M.O. of the con-man or con-woman.
    Some of those doubtlessly have sadistic streaks, so they enjoy finding ways to select and groom a victim into a victim/accomplice, or a whipping boy/girl.
     
  18. birch Valued Senior Member

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    i really don't know about that. my point was just that sociopaths aren't necessarily going to be drug addicts or users either. mine wasn't, that's not their thing. i know one thing is that sociopaths are into their self-preservation, they do try to drive others to self-destruct though.

    was jeffrey dahmer a drug addict? i never heard he was. hmm..
     
  19. KilljoyKlown Whatever Valued Senior Member

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    I could write a whole book on that woman. When I met her she was more of an alcohol abuser, then she got into meth. But to her the drugs were a means to an end as it gave her access to more marks than than any other thing she could do. For one thing if you were in the game as she called it you were fair game. People in the drug scene never call the cops, if they do they become rats. Also, she always made it plain she wasn't like them as if she was superior. To her they were barely human, therefore anything she did to them was okay. She absolutely never felt guilty when she hurt someone, usually by ripping them off. When she decided to get rid of a boyfriend, from that moment within about 6 months they would be in prison. I watched her do that to 3 different men 2 of which she had a kid with.

    Yes I agree she has been small time, but she does have 5 kids that she doesn't take care of and maybe a sixth if what I heard from a friend is true. There is no guarantee she will stay small time. She has an incredible controlling personality and all it would take is for her to meet someone who would help her take it to the next level.
     
  20. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

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    The ones I've seen at remove in the trailer park are the more textbook ones; the screwups who do varieties of stupid crap and don't learn from it. They don't stay out of jail very long.

    I'd guess the more restrained ones tend to be brighter, too? but not always, of course...I imagine there's some really bright petty con artists in jail.

    I'm guessing the impulse control factor is the key as to whether they end up a stat or not. I really think that's likely the difference.
    You see, at first I thought The Toad was fairly intelligent...he pulled this off by being calculating, restrained, and quiet. He wasn't bright at all, just charming.
    At one point in his life he used hard drugs a lot...he just rotated them-coke day, pot day, smack day, LSD day, booze day, meth day, and one day off a week...this was calculated so he could use freely but not get hooked...

    I do have to admit this...The Toad used me for my money, but he wasn't horribly malignant beyond that...he could have been a lot eviller than he was.
    I still view him as a valuable learning experience.
     
  21. birch Valued Senior Member

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    does it really surprise people if there are sociopaths who aren't drug users? some people get hooked on drugs from stupidity, from peer pressure, some to escape the pain of trauma etc.

    why so much focus on drugs?

    my sociopath had a job, did not do petty theft, never went to jail, has no criminal record, went to church, was not a drug addict, had friends and family etc. he cared and worried more about his "credit' and reputation than if he is raping someone. that is how inhumane, selfish and shallow his priorities were. they don't give a shit about someone else's life. he fits right in because he is a selfish asshole. society likes people like that because they do what serves society's interests and behaves the way they want at least in public. do they really give a shit if someone is humane? they don't give a shit about the little or obscure victims. they will just end up on the fringe and forgotten about so society can pat themselves on the back and believe in their self-righteous bullshit that those with social status, money and lots of friends must mean they are good people. get it? there are sociopaths who fit right into mainstream society.

    but that monster was an evil sadist and user behind closed doors. a rapist, child abuser, wife-beater, pervert, megalomaniac and liar.

    WTF does drugs have to do with it? explain this to me.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2011
  22. KilljoyKlown Whatever Valued Senior Member

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    Nothing except prove that sociopaths come in all flavors. However if you compare the prison population with the general public, you will find a much higher percentage of personality disorders behind bars and almost all of them are drug users. I don't necessarily believe one thing has anything to do with the other, accept that more personality disorders seem to get into trouble with the law and so do drug users. I think socially challenged people probably tend to become drug users at a higher rate than the general public. So personality disorder first and drug user second.
     
  23. birch Valued Senior Member

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    this thread is about sociopaths and you've been trying to mix people with other disorders in with sociopaths. that's quite interesting. so those who don't fit into mainstream society or put on the act is what you are more concerned about. i'd like to introduce you to my family, you'd love them.

    people behind bars doesn't necessarily mean they are all sociopaths. i went to jail for a few days for tresspassing when i was sixteen because i was homeless. ain't that something? going to jail for not having a place? that's so evil, i know. of course this is an embarassment to them. the monsters that abused me, ZERO days in jail. what did i find out in jail, that just because someone ends up in jail doesn't mean they are bad people. most of them weren't but of course some will be. some are just stupid.

    the world is not fair nor is the justice system fair because there is no way to catch them all, especially "sociopaths." this thread is about SOCIOPATHS.

    right now, these people are trying to start a mission in india and in korea. they have many connections through the church and many friends. why do they do this? to look good in front of others. also, so the rapist can have access to children as he is involved in the children's ministry which he volunteered for. surprise, surprise. they have more connections than me and more friends than me. while i was struggling, suffering and lost, they never lost any sleep or did anything to help me except to continually exploit. hypocrite much?

    who went and got mental health help for the rape and abuse? ME, the victim because of depression. the victim is going to suffer more. the perpetrators? NADA.

    what did my mother say to me the first thing she found out i was going to seek help for myself?? did she say that she was happy that her daughter was getting help they never sought out for me? NO. she was more concerned about protecting her husband, their reputation and said some lame shit about how he can't get in trouble because it happened some years back. what kind of christian, good citizen is that?? VERY GOOD according to superficial society and that is what they care about most.

    do you know what those monsters have the nerve to call me?? yes, the prodigal child quoting their scripture. well, didn't you tell those church people about them to give them a heads up, you ask? well, that's easy, they just tell them i'm the crazy one. after all, look at her life vs theirs. they are the christians, they are the good citizens, they are the ones with seemingly no problems and stable. she's been homeless, lost, fought with us, not even married and living with her boyfriend. ya see how this girl is immoral and not as moral as we are??

    society is BUILT on lies.

    if anyone knows anything about sociopaths, i DO.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2011

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