...from James R's "Sciforums site rules" : "H10. Attack the argument, not the person. Avoid phrases such as ‘Only an idiot would say that’, which is equivalent to the personal insult ‘You are an idiot’. If you disagree with a position, explain why clearly and politely, and don’t forget to provide suitable evidence in support of your own position." - from : http://www.sciforums.com/threads/sciforums-site-rules.142880/ Any "suitable evidence", paddoboy? Regardless, when it comes to the question : What is the purpose of life? The only possible True, Honest, Considered and Sincere Scientific answer is : It is not known! A minor addendum might be that it may never be known! Indeed, it just may be that it cannot ever and will not ever be known!
Some interesting extracts which illustrate that purpose in life is as superfluous as any ID or deity from.... http://www.icr.org/article/darwinism-survival-without-purpose/ "Darwin's brilliance was in seeing beyond the appearance of design, and understanding the purposeless, merciless process of natural selection, of life and death in the wild, and how it culled all but the most successful organisms from the tree of life, thereby creating the illusion that a master intellect had designed the world. But close inspection of the watchlike "perfection" of honeybees' combs or ant trails…reveals that they are a product of random, repetitive, unconscious behaviors, not conscious design". "Darwinian evolution was not only purposeless but also heartless--a process in which...nature ruthlessly eliminates the unfit. Suddenly, humanity was reduced to just one more species in a world that cared nothing for us. The great human mind was no more than a mass of evolving neurons. Worst of all, there was no divine plan to guide us"" "Humans...came from the same evolutionary source as every other species. It is natural selection of selfish genes that has given us our bodies and our brains…. Natural selection…explains…the whole of life, the diversity of life, the complexity of life, |and| the apparent design in life." "The real difficulty in accepting Darwin's theory has always been that it seems to diminish our significance…. |Evolution| asked us to accept the proposition that, like all other organisms, we too are the products of a random process that, as far as science can show, we are not created for any special purpose or as part of any universal design". "The Darwinian view that… present-type organisms were not created spontaneously but formed in a succession of selective events that occurred in the past, contradicted the common religious view that there could be no design, biological or otherwise, without an intelligent designer…. In this scheme a god of design and purpose is not necessary…. Religion has been bolstered by… the comforting idea that humanity was created in the image of a god to rule over the world and its creatures. Religion provided emotional solace, a set of ethical and moral values…. Nevertheless, faith in religious dogma has been eroded by natural explanations of its mysteries…. The positions of the creationists and the scientific world appear irreconcilable." http://www.icr.org/article/darwinism-survival-without-purpose/
...now you want to try and turn this into a "religious/soul argument", paddoboy? ...or...is this simply another attempt at a Straw Man Argument/Straw Man Fallacy ? - to wit : "A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent". - from : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man - to wit : "The straw man fallacy is a logical fallacy involving the accidental or intentional misrepresentation of another person’s argument so that it is easier to respond to or refute." - from : http://www.psychologyconcepts.com/the-straw-man-fallacy/ I have stated my position quite clearly, paddoboy : ...when it comes to the question : What is the purpose of life? The only possible True, Honest, Considered and Sincere Scientific answer is : It is not known! A minor addendum might be that it may never be known! Indeed, it just may be that it cannot ever, and will not ever, be known! My simple, succinct and totally Scientific answer!!! And yet, it seems as though you are trying to frame it as some kind of "religious/soul argument", paddoboy ?
Edward O Wilson of course from my previous link is..... "A Harvard professor for four decades, he has written twenty books, won two Pulitzer prizes, and discovered hundreds of new species. Considered to be one of the world's greatest living scientists, Dr. Wilson is often called "the father of biodiversity," (a word that he coined). He is the Pellegrino University Research Professor, Emeritus in Entomology for the Department of Organismic and Evolutionary Biology at Harvard University and a Fellow of the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry. He is a Humanist Laureate of the International Academy of Humanism" Most of what you claim Mick I agree with, just some comment on the point that you suspect the question is unanswerable........ If one accepts abiogenisis [which I believe you do] and as a consequence and follow up, evolution, then that automatically rules out any need of ID and any other mythical, unscientific nonsense, you agree? So, how then can any purpose ever be contemplated? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Fact ....There used to be no life on earth. There is now life on earth. Therefore life arose from non-life. Abiogenisis, or the fabricating of life from nonliving molecules, is certainly possible since it has certainly happened. The only purpose of life is the purpose that we make for ourselves. Life like the universe, and according to the facts available and evidence, has no purpose.
I do and I agree Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! OMG that sounds like a wedding vow Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Moving on Don't have any problem contemplating purpose Makes a change from my navel I don't expect to realise any ultimate answer but the contemplating keeps my two neurones busy playing Ping Pong with it Agree Surely if a purpose is in play it would come before any action Has anybody started to stack up bricks with cement and having started tried to work out a purpose? For those who believe god made us I would seriously ask him if I could look at the manual From the study of the manual I might be able to deduce a purpose (but I doubt it)
Metaphorically, definitely. Many people, sometimes after years doing the same job, say "Why the **** am I doing this?"
The main point I got from the excellent article by Professor Wilson, was the purpose of life and the title of this thread....Obviously "purpose" and/or "meaning" in everyday language means that In ordinary usage the word "purpose" and “meaning” implies a reasoning and/or intention, by some all powerful all knowing IDer. Contrary to that, he has obviously shown that life is simply an accident of chemistry, and a myriad of many other random events, from fluctuations in the quantum foam, to spacetime, the first matter, stars and then life via abiogenisis. Put far better than I ever could in another nice rundown on the good Professor and his book, "The Meaning of Human Existence" http://motivatedmastery.com/edward-o-wilson-on-human-nature-and-the-meaning-of-our-existence/
Sounds plausible yes Would be a interesting study to find out how long into the job before they asked the question and how long they continued in the job before they found a answer or left because they couldn't find a justifiable answer
Great. The manual you can see Chapter 1 in Genesis . Note after each finished action day. God looked and he said it was good, such expression means it was a step at the time and He was happy with the progress.
Who witnessed God doing all these things such that they were able to record the events? Is it not clear that there could be no witness to the supposed creation. Why is an account that is clearly made up given any credibility? Faith no doubt. Faith that somehow some ancient made up a story got it right not withstanding he clearly got it wrong. Your "manual" has no substance and is based upon ...well nothing. Alex
Witness : You have to believe God spoke to prophets; here is the point. You believe or not, if not , than there can not be any discussion. Is the sequence presented reasonable with science YES. Since the book was written over 3000 years ago, the question rises , were the people knowledgeable able to describe such sequences? Validation : The flood of Noah is mentioned in the bible and epics of Gilgamesh. According to science the flood have taken place about 8000 years ago . So there was a flood. Should I believe there was an Abraham the Hebrew . Ask (spidergoat ) Do we believe Jews existed about 4000 years ago , well they are with us up to the present. There was an attempt to eliminate them, from 2700 years ago to the present , they are here and stronger then ever before. Have Romans destroyed their Temple , The western wall is steel there. I can go on and on to validate the bible . But this up to the individual to believe. In summary: for me, the existence of Israel is the testimony of God's existence. I have more , but a non believer obviously will not believe Note : this is an answer to Alex . Not preaching.
Yep, it sure looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Always a chance it could be a Duckaphant You know the elephant in the room who has painted itself yellow and is wearing water wings
And I thank you Tim for taking the time to present an answer. I gather that God was the witness to his creation and he recorded the events by causing someone to write about it billions of years after. I don't buy it but at least I have your interpretation of how a non witness recorded the event. So if we believe the bible I guess only Jews count which must be saddening for all the Chinese, Negro, Indian etc races. Are you saying they do not count at all? Seems very strange that God picks out a people then stands by in silence whilst they were horribly persecuted... And I guess we have a few more wars to expect for the boundaries of Israel to expand to where God set them all those years ago. Not much of a gift if you have to wait centuries for it to be delivered. Imagine if I said I give you a house then have delivered a few bricks and lumber would you think I really gave you a house. Anyways its your belief and as you say the belief of billions and so with such numbers many prophecies will be fulfilled because many will work to see Gods promise is kept, not by him but by men who believe in him. My prophesy is humans will evolve past superstition and learn that men create Gods but Gods do not create men. Alex
Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Sounds like preaching to timojin Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
