Proof that God does not exist.

Are youcomplimenting me for still managing to keep to my guns.

Alex

No, drop the guns pl. Apologies and guns don't go together.

That is much too general for me to provide a meaningful answer further it requies making judgement however to offer a generalised reply possibly of no value, I would think faith is earned just as is trust and say my partner was casual with the truth I may not have faith that their version of facts may be reliable and I would adjust my level of faith.


The love would have faith but that faith can and should have boundaries.

I have a friend who has a drinking problem, I could trust him to look after my house and if he borrowed money he would pay it back but you could not leave him in the house and tell him not to drink your beer and he will promise not to, but when you return the beer will be gone...I trust him I have faith in him as a loyal friend but you must see how one must place a qualification upon that faith or trust.

Alex

good, so you follow some faith. Could be in your spouse or in your drunkard friend. Did anyone seek evidence from you for following this faith? Did you ever try to investigate legally or scientifically to get your faith endorsed?

It seems like a simple question but I will answer honestly.
My responce is really leaning to dismissive but lets say I just think the rapists is a very bad man.

Alex

And whats your "bad man" ? Where do you/we get this concept of bad man?
Moral depravation?

Honestly...no I dont.

I do not accept that a God gave man dominion over the fowl and the beasts nor do I believe man is somehow special.

It is only our ability that makes us the "best" animal, but who is to say technical ability is necessarily smart ...who is to say that whales are not superior...not a bad life style...and if you observe humans they show many animal traits...not in a bad way...its just the way it is.
You probably see it different and so its hard for you to step into my shoes and walk in my world just as it is hard for me to step into your shoes and walk in your world.
But I am entirely happy with that view ... but personaly I feel special but only because I of my pride in surviving and to have had the opportunity to breed successfully and establish two separate blood lines...look at a herd of cows very few bulls survive the battles to breed.

Life is really is that simple when you peel it all back.

Alex

So you think there is no difference between you (human being) and a pig (Animal).
Don't you think having faith in God makes an atheist somewhat different from an animal?
Don't you think it may give you a moral high ground (not bad man, not bad animal)?

I dont think science really needs to get involved until they can observe evidence or work out an equation that helps predict reality, so given belief is intangible I think science probably cant help.

Alex

You are absolutely right. Science stays away from this question. But you have already forgotten your OP, it was you who wanted scientific and legal evidence for the existence of God.

I have a link that I must let you have about the cosmic egg and big bang...it suggests some see the science back handedly proves God...


Alex

I don't have to refer to such links. There are people like you on the other side of fence who are disillusioned that the science has proved God or like that. No, science has no role in it either way. There are many dead-ends for science, can't invoke God everywhere.
 
Because I assume they could be humble and not talk down to others but clearly I need to adjust my assumption based on observation.

You display unjustified arrogance.
I dont care what you do if you can not explain what you do to another human "layman" what you do you got nothing.
Some experts object to explaining what they do in simple terms as that may seem to degrade thr complexity of their work.
So what are they doing at ligo...if you cant put that in one sentence as a brief overview you are not trying.
The prospect of difficult communication does not wash I am sorry.

Let me say I will only think of you as foolish but certainly not a fool.

Here is that link...keep it secret.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/bib...6/09/15/big-bang-birthed-from-cosmic-egg/amp/

Alex

No, I am not being arrogant. The point is a scientists can attempt to explain, with best of his dressed down abilities, about spacetime distortion caused by merger of two spinning neutron stars, to an uninitiated layman, but he will never intend to make him a scientist, he will not have any meaningful discussion or argument with him. Likewise an argument between a theist and an atheist will not move beyond the first step : the denial.
Despite the fact that you follow faith, despite the hints of morality by you, despite the acknowledgement that science cannot get into this..you call me (theist) foolish for following my faith. Please yourself.
 
good, so you follow some faith. Could be in your spouse or in your drunkard friend.
Difference is we know a spouse exists and has behaved in a certain way in the past. Whereas your faith is based on something less than evidence, maybe an old book, or just a hope .
 
Difference is we know a spouse exists and has behaved in a certain way in the past. Whereas your faith is based on something less than evidence, maybe an old book, or just a hope .

I am sure you know what "faith" does not call for any evidence. It is your rationality which is seeking evidence.
 
Not Alex but I will post replies anyway

1. Should an atheist have faith in his wife/partner etc?

If I know details about both for some I would say yes - for some I would say no and some would get a maybe/unsure

But the question is totally unconnected with and irrelevant to the thread

2. Apart from legal aspect (and self control) how would you differentiate between a rapist and honorable man?

Unless you had very intimate details of both of their lives you can't

3. Are you any different from animal when sole purpose of your life is procreation only? [granted that you have acquired materialistic greatness as compared to dogs and pigs.]

There is no purpose to life. Humans give themselves a purpose IN life

But life itself does NOT have purpose

4. Dont you swear in the name of God while taking court oath? if so why?

Sometimes yes sometimes no. It's really immaterial to me. It depends what I am in court for and what else is going on

I have got what I am going to say, the truth, no matter if I swear on the bible or Superman comic. Courts tend to prefer bible but in truth it really is a outmoded requirement

Indicating to the person "You understand in the court you are required to be truthful?" is more than enough to satisfy court requirements

5. You said you read popper, can you science analyze your beliefs or faith?

Science has never analysed beliefs or faith

If someone exclaims to a scientist "I believe such and such" the first thing a scientist will do is gather evidence about the belief. The EVIDENCE will be analysed NOT the belief

Subtle difference ie no evidence found no analysis performed

:)
 
No, drop the guns pl. Apologies and guns don't go together.
Well timed I just got back from the other place.

And yes you are right and I accept your point.
I usually realise thst I am wrong earlier.
Did anyone seek evidence from you for following this faith?
Well there have been occasions where others have questioned why I have supported someone they thought was crazy.
And all I could answer is well I dont have a problem with that person...
Did you ever try to investigate legally or scientifically to get your faith endorsed?
No.
Are you saying if you believe you are right then you are right?
I understand firm conviction I think.
Where do you/we get this concept of bad man?
TV?
I see what you are driving at...so for me I went to Sunday school and scripture lessons at school and even went to church very early.
So I expect in my case my morals ethics etc could be traced to there on the one hand but to my parents on the other who tressed honesty and kindness as the most important qualities to foster.
So our bad man will usually fail to meet my expectation of honesty or kindness and for not being kind he should be executed and his soul kept in a jar.
So you think there is no difference between you (human being) and a pig (Animal).
No. And I respect all life as if it is as important as my own.
I dont know what animals feel or experience and although we are all similar we are different in ways that separate us but we all belong to the family of life...we each represent our species but no species should look down upon any other...and I know we do..even I do at times...but its a standard I try to achieve all the time.
Don't you think having faith in God makes an atheist somewhat different from an animal?
If an atheist has faith in God he will not be an athiest...
But I can see that if you believe in God then that requires you to believe you are special and indeed that in effect the world is here for you in fact created by God for you...
Sure I can understand you will have a different view of yourself and that you are so much better than an annimal and that there is a wonderful purpose for you as well as an after live a d if nothing else a guide ax to hopefully be decent and not let all the gifts go to your head...Sure it sounds perfect.

But as I said I dont see it the way you do...
I can see absolutely why the concept is most acceptable.

My values are just different to yours.
Don't you think it may give you a moral high ground (not bad man, not bad animal)?

I can see how can take the moral high ground as you put it.. I think most do their best...And it has been my experience to be able to find some good in most people but that only comes from my determination not to judge others. ..and I dont always get that right.
But you have already forgotten your OP, it was you who wanted scientific and legal evidence for the existence of God.
Well I dropped the idea of the op.
I don't have to refer to such links.
Pity I think you would have enjoyed it for a multitude of reasons .
It surprised me and that is not easy.
There are people like you on the other side of fence who are disillusioned that the science has proved God or like that.
No me I dont believe in God so I dont relate science that way...I am saying there are folk who believe whatever...nothing more.
No, science has no role in it either way.
True but folk may see the science as support...there are all sorts...there are folk who take their scriptures as fact ...it takes all kinds of people. ..

Alex
 
Yeah, my fundament said the same thing when I took Bagels at Monostatins.
Today you named EMR as electromagnetic radiation and photon as photon, tommorow if you change these names, it does not mean entity of these is changed. We may need to check all primary a secondary entities serving as per primary and secondary gods, goddesses, angels, devils etc. by comparing their attributes and properties as indicated by religions and by science. We may be able to understand many.
 
I am sure you know what "faith" does not call for any evidence. It is your rationality which is seeking evidence.
Assuming that those with faith in God believe their faith to be rational, upon what is that assessment of rationality based, if not evidence?
 
believe their faith to be rational,
Not sure about that
I'm sure those engaged in serious discussion. I mean serious discussions not just ranting
I'm sure those in serious discussions have been through being requested to provide evidence and get to a point where they don't care ie "It's my faith - end of discussion. I don't care about science or being rational. If you don't believe you cannot empathise how I feel"

:)
 
I am sure you know what "faith" does not call for any evidence. It is your rationality which is seeking evidence.
Then what use are relics and miracles, examples of prayer working, and claims of science in the Bible? All attempts to appeal to reason, however flawed. Theists will grasp reasons when they can.
 
No the question is why...the answer is to reproduce ...why? Well that I dont know.
Alex

I missed it.
A further extract of my essay which probably answers your dilemma.

Abstract: This thesis primarily deals with the very purpose of our existence, the involvement of a bigger designer and leads us to some thought provoking idea about origin of our universe and the evolution process to find the God.

Introduction
:What is the purpose of our life? Is it any different from that of any living organism? I am afraid no, the purpose of our life, the purpose of life of any living organism is: To find the GOD or to support in the process of finding the GOD. But do we know it? Unfortunately we do not even realize it, as we are relentlessly pursuing the artificial objectives based on our immediate material world understanding…

...

The list is endless; the objective is either defined by us or forced on us by people who influence us. What is all this, nothing but the material objectives, nothing but to give some purpose to our otherwise aimless looking wandering on earth. Never ever we thought that all these objectives are of some value as long as we are alive, they make no sense beyond that, and even otherwise there is no reason why our designer be bothered about what we achieve in this material world.

Treasure Hunt:
In our younger days we play a game of treasure hunt, we do not know about the treasure neither we know about the location, but we search it till someone finds it out, why because it is certainty that this is a game and treasure is there for us to find.

God is like this hidden treasure, we do not know about his location and neither do we know what it would be like to find and meet him. The matter ends here, almost every individual who can call himself non atheist would vouch (with varied degree) for the existence of GOD, wishes to learn more about his existence, wishes to find him and seeks his divine intervention, that means treasure is there but we do not know the means to find it. We fail to find it and we continue pursuing false set of objectives as listed above.
 
Translation:
Lack of an objective purpose makes you uncomfortable, so you invented a father figure that knows what it's all about. You don't even seem to be able to define what god is, so any rational person may dismiss the notion out of hand.
 
Treasure Hunt:In our younger days we play a game of treasure hunt, we do not know about the treasure neither we know about the location, but we search it till someone finds it out, why because it is certainty that this is a game and treasure is there for us to find.

God is like this hidden treasure, we do not know about his location and neither do we know what it would be like to find and meet him. The matter ends here, almost every individual who can call himself non atheist would vouch (with varied degree) for the existence of GOD, wishes to learn more about his existence, wishes to find him and seeks his divine intervention, that means treasure is there but we do not know the means to find it. We fail to find it and we continue pursuing false set of objectives as listed above.
So you simply assume that there is a game being played, and you decide to join in?
Who says that there is a game?
Who says that there is treasure to be found?
Is it not simply that those before you have said that they are playing a game?
That those around you seem to be playing a game and you want to join in?
You join in initially and then gradually come to believe, and then reinforce that belief, that you are laying a game.

But who is to say that there is actually a game?
That there is any treasure to be found?

If you get something from the playing of the game (whether you win or lose, find the treasure or not) then that's great.
But the benefit of playing does not equate to the truth of the game, although it may encourage you to keep playing.

So, how do you know that there is actually a game, other than those already playing their game telling you so?
 
the purpose of our life, the purpose of life of any living organism is: To find the GOD or to support in the process of finding the GOD.

Thank you for taking the time to present your belief upon the purpose of life.

relentlessly pursuing the artificial objectives based on our immediate material world understanding…

Some of us were just pursuing partners and also materials to build a nest and focused on breeding and making sure our offspring were equiped to survive so they also could one day breed.

And material objects were desirable because they were thought to attract a mate, or useful to make a nest for the mate or to provide benefit to the off spring.

Although we can call the objects artificial we seek to acquire their benefit offerred support to the main purpose which is to find a mate and breed.

The bibles confused approach to all matters sexual probably causes theists to forget that mating and breeding is the fundamental purpose if you must have a purpose.

God is like this hidden treasure, we do not know about his location and neither do we know what it would be like to find and meet him.

Thank you for explaining things in a way that helps me understand how you view the situation.

And it is good to look for the treasure I suppose.

I looked for the treasure, you believe can be found, for years but I finally I decided that there was no treasure but only a treasure map and that the map was drawn by folk who had not ever seen any treasure and did not realise the treasure of a family.

In most cases it was the torment of their lonliness and dispair that something in their life was absent, namely family, that no doubt caused them to fantisize and write that there was something else ...and to invent even another chance at life so maybe they could be happy the next time ... they needed a next time and a friend and perhaps their lonliness and failure at the basics of life caused them to invent an invisable friend. But why they had to drag others into their fantasies I am not sure as their behaviour was never understandable if you enjoyed a real life.

I gave up hunting for non existent treasure ...and by giving up that fruitless search I could see that what was important was to find a mate, build a nest and breed...raise a sucessful family.

The treasure was my mate, my nest and my offspring.

All real, all tangible and all consistent with life and living in the existing world.

We fail to find it and we continue pursuing false set of objectives as listed above.

Maybe if you thought that a purpose of breeding was more honorable you would not consider many of the things you seek materially are false.

If you want a house and a car to help find a mate and start a family I dont see working to acquire such possessions as somehow usless or pointless as you seem to suggest...rather honorable I suggest.

It seems that you seek an unrealistic treasure and ignore the true treasure life has to offer.

I think the only value in seeking treasure, say if you find a treasure map, is to get the desire to search out of your system, and realise if someone has hidden treasure they will never make a map for someone else to find it...think about it why make a map? ...who could not remember where they hide their treasure?...its not like..Oh where did I put my keys?...

So if you find a treasure map it is sure to be something drawn up to have folk participating in a wild goose chase.

I searched for the treasure that you still hunt but finally realised...there was no treasure and those who drew the map were uninformed at best and dishonest at worst.
But shame on me for not realising these teachers were uninformed and often incorrect...if they were wrong on many things why would they be right on all things...well you cant trust reality to be decribed by someone who gets so many things wrong.

I simply realised that if everything was due to God and we are here because of God it would be clear and in no way hidden in books half full of errors and misunderstanding...to me it made sense that if God was real there would be no doubt or confusion or denominations or varience of belief from one place to another... for knowledge of God would be universal ..the knowledge would be as basic and as standard as how humans breed and reproduce...there would be no mystery needed... so to find a mystery I find it inconsistent with life and observation of all that is in the world or indeed the universe.

Would you raise a child and determine the best way to help them understand and respect you was to leave and never see them or to ever help them learn to read or dress themselves.


The lack of input suggests an obvious conclusion for me.

Nevertheless I thank you again for explaining your view I do appreciate you doing so...I responded because you made me think of how I viewed things and not to discredit anything you have written...in fact I think you went a long way to helping me understand your view of the way it is for you.

But I suggest this...if you do no more than find a partner and raise a family with kindness and respect for each of them and aquire goods to support your family, I think that would make any God happy and have him believe that he had not created a Universe that life did not enjoy and flourish within.
Would he want praise?
I dont know but as a father I seek no praise or worship from my children so even the aspect of suggesting a God would require praise seems strange and probably unrealistic...however such a requirement would suit folk who experienced insecurity and that insecurity could reflect in the authorship of say a religious text.


Alex
 
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