On Nothing in a void.

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by Xelasnave.1947, Dec 22, 2016.

  1. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Is nothing the opposite to infinite?
    Alex
     
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  3. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    No
     
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  5. karenmansker HSIRI Banned

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    NO! . . . . . and I did not intend to convey that nothing is the opposite of infinite. My intent was to interject that both terms are "mathematical constructs" that are utilized linguistically in a qualitative form and that quantitative value is only inferred in linguistic application to convey a mutually understood "concept". Our language(s) are rife with similar verbage conundrums that serve communicative discourse.
     
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  7. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Why?
    Alex
     
  8. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    I was not motivated by your post other than the word infinite was mentioned and I thought I would use it ignoring the context in which you used it.
    Alex
     
  9. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    Nothing, as I am sure you know well by now in my view, is the absence of totally EVERYTHING.

    My term (it may occur in other places and articles) for this absence of EVERYTHING is Total Infinite Void.

    In my view this should be the default position ie why should ANYTHING exist?

    Why would we have even a gazillionith of a gazillionith of a neutron let alone the amount of stuff we have?

    And to answer my own half rhetorical question 'Because physics allows'.

    So that takes care of nothing.

    Of course in common language when somebody says there is nothing in space they probably are not thinking of such a deep bedrock concept.

    Space is full of radiation and scattered molecules.

    Infinite is the unreachable boundary ie I have a Infinite length of string along with a Infinite supply of food, water, and air to last my Infinite life. And my spacesuit has an Infinite supply of fuel.

    I attach the string to the NASA keyring on my spacesuit belt (this is only because I want to return to the same spot) and set out to go to Infinity.

    Of course I never get there but this long winded explanation shows

    • Nothing means at bedrock Total Infinite Void
    • Infinite means going forever for an unreachable boundary
    Humpty Dumpty to Poe "See I told you, but you wouldn't listen, he would never go for just no".
    Poe looks suitably chastised

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  10. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Thank you for such a well considered reply.
    I thought I should print it out and frame it but I don't have a printer.
    I have plenty of walls but the works of art are too valuable to hang on a wall.
    5 hours to go but may I take this opportunity to wish you and your team a happy new year.
    I suppose it may be best not to mention my talking about walls to Humpty ...also don't tell Poe I am not sure if he can keep a secret.
    Back in Sydney but just now arrived after 10/hours driving so no fireworks unfortunately.
    Alex
     
  11. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    3,217
    Thanks for the wishes and I return them to you.

    Here in Darwin have six hours left of 2016.

    Hope in 2017 you are

    12 months happy
    52 weeks funny
    365 days successful
    8760 hours healthy
    52600 minutes lucky
    3153600 seconds joyful

    And may all your post get likes.

    Humpty and Poe wish you the same.

    Both sleeping right now. Have to wake them at 11pm for the fireworks.

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  12. sweetpea Registered Senior Member

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    I may say...if you want to do physics you start with a model based on first observations and go from there. But, to make a physics model starting from nothing...Are there any such physics models which start from nothing? Happy new year all. I wonder if Beer w/Straw got a new straw for christmas?
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2016
  13. sweetpea Registered Senior Member

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    704
    Don't worry Bds, I thought that post funny anyway.
     
  14. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    My term (it may occur in other places and articles) for this absence of EVERYTHING is Total Infinite Void.

    In my view this should be the default position ie why should ANYTHING exist?

    Why would we have even a gazillionith of a gazillionith of a neutron let alone the amount of stuff we have?

    And to answer my own half rhetorical question 'Because physics allows'.

    So that takes care of nothing.

    Work from that as a model.

    Of course in common language when somebody says there is nothing in space they probably are not thinking of such a deep bedrock concept.

    Space is full of radiation and scattered molecules.

    Repeat though:- Why would we have even a gazillionith of a gazillionith of a neutron let alone the amount of stuff we have

    To answer my own half rhetorical question 'Because physics allows'.

    Now we sit back and let the scientist work out WHY physics allows SOMETHING to exist???
     
  15. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    I dont know.
    Alex
     
  16. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    5,160
    Let me show you a way to make something appear from what appears to be nothing. Picture a wave tank with two wave generators, one at each end of the tank. The waves being generated are 180 degrees out of phase. The result is the waves will cancel each other, since the crest on the waves on the left will overlap the throughs of the waves on the right and vice versa.This is an example of hidden energy. The tank is still, but we know we are putting energy into the system to make the waves. However, the wave addition is creating the impression that there nothing in the middle of the tank. To make the energy reappear we can alter the phase difference between the waves, we alter the frequency and/or wavelength on one side, or place a partition in the middle of the tank for maximum wave energy appearance.

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  17. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Only if you ignore the water.
    Alex
     
  18. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    Appears to be NOTHING???????

    Let me point to that grey item in the sky.

    Now that's nothing.

    How do I know?

    Well there is a story going around some people went there but I've never met them.

    And many others say it never happened.

    So if it never happened what they went to doesn't exist.

    Humpty Dumpty thinks both sets of logic match.

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  19. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    If you look at the concept of dark energy, we infer dark energy from its affects. Nobody has ever seen dark energy, directly, in the lab; hidden energy we infer from affect. In terms of direct lab evidence, dark energy exists among the nothingness. The various affects, which we attribute to dark energy, appear as a result of partitions in the nothingness; matter partition.

    A galaxy is like a wall that we place in the middle of the wave tank. Once we add this partition, the crests of dark energy waves rise on one side and while the throughs of dark matter waves sink on the other side. Now there is a vector, on the partition that appears as affects stemming from what had been nothingness.

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  20. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    What part of NOTHING confuses some of the posters here?

    Is it the NO?

    Is it the THING?

    Is it the combination?

    Anybody think it should be THINGNO?

    No
    • Wave tank
    • Wave generator
    • Dark energy
    • Dark energy effects
    • Galaxy
    • Vector
    • And particularly a partition that appears
    1. From
    2. a galaxy is
    3. like a wall that
    4. we place in the middle of
    5. the wave tank.
    6. Once
    7. we add
    8. this partition,
    9. the crests of
    10. dark energy waves
    11. rise on one side
    12. and while the throughs of
    13. dark matter waves
    14. sink on the other side.
    15. Now there is a vector,
    16. on the partition that
    17. appears as affects stemming from
    18. what had been nothingness.<<<<<<< Surely you jest when you call all of this NOTHINGNESS???
    Humpty Dumpty going to do nothing but wait for New Year
    Poe with him

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  21. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    The Sydney fireworks were most impressive.
    Happy new year I am speaking to you from next year it is 2017 here.

    There is no place in space that one will not find something.
    If there is please let me know where.
    Alex
     
  22. surreptitious57 Registered Member

    Messages:
    25
    Absolute nothing exists but it cannot be sustained because of quantum fluctuations which cause particles to pop in
    and out of existence. The particles borrow energy to pop into it and when that energy has been expended they pop
    out of it again. That process occurs within an infinitesimal time scale [ fraction of a second ] then instantly repeats
    itself because of instability with regard to the state of nothing. So nature it would seem really does abhor a vacuum
     
  23. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    3,217
    Still a little bit more than half an hour left of 216 here.

    I hold out hope that my Total Infinite Void is uncontaminated.

    It lies outside the furthest reach of the tip of the radiation traveling outwards from our Universe.

    It remains uncontaminated until it butts into another expanding Universe.

    Of course our Universe may be the only one in existence.

    Either way, one or some, the story and history and exquisite nature of the Cosmos is truly something to hold in awe and beats hands down the story of the sandeled wonder.

    Humpty Dumpty and Poe in chorus. Amen

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    Bye bye 2016.
    We will never see your like again.
    Hello 2017.
    What have you got in store for us eh?

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