/Ha. What a question.
Very much.
Excellent. I look forward to your input.
/And I hope you're not lumping me in the boat with those 'presuming their own genius'. The little bit with Tessie was a consequential unavoidable. I don't rub “genius” in when I don’t have to. Ever.
Hehehe, I wasn't but I sense a guilty conscience.
/Now....where were we? AH-
/When you said this:
/You
were talking about Koko and Michael and all those 20 plus monkies they’ve got learning ASL now. However subjective this sounds, I believe you were duped. Um..’sorry’.
Well, it happens.
/There is no thinking there. Its a human extrapolating fancy things from what is really a monkey fingering associative doodats with his hands to meet the immediate- food, play, drink. Variation of the routine.
/You’ll find it in pigeons, dolphins, dogs and cats.
Debatable I'd say but I'll drop it in lieu of larger game.
/I said consciousness was a myth and you lost your beans. Tee hee...
Hehe, I was hamming it up for the camera a bit, but yeah I'm mildly uncomfortable with the notion of not being conscious. To compensate I think that the illusion the reality when it comes to the abstract. In other words, the illusion of consciousness IS consciousness, so can there be a difference? I mean, if you think you are, aren't you, regardless of what led to the condition? To say "i am not conscious" says "this is not subjective" and how could it not be if YOU said it? *shrug*
This is where I start agreeing with you:
Let us agree that there are two kinds of states for consciousness:
Its either absent. Or its there to some degree.
Absent means zero.
Some-degree could be anything on your ‘sliding scale’.
A stone falling is at zero.
A bug, a cat, a baby, or your gramma falling down the same way are aware of falling to a degree somewhere on your sliding scale.
Now, stringing out this idea of a quasi-electrical force (not saying it is electrical. Consider the word a place holder for ‘idunno’) we can safely say that all the living is enmeshed in this ‘force’.
And this force is a plenum- covering everything like foam. Imagine a matrix or a film or a what- have-you so long as its universal.
I’m sure you already have.
To some degree, living matter separates things inevitably. That’s what living does. I’m sure even an amoeba, while not wholly sentient of time as a concept still separates its medium artificially. Proof? Reproduction, absorption, growing, moving and migrating- it all comprises some form of time, yes?
So then, since this habit is found all the way at the bottom, surely it carries all the way up the ‘sliding scale’. All the way up to the
sapiens where odd things begin happening.
You've got me hook line and sinker up to here from where I said I started agreeing.
/The human head now begins taking these separate entities, the somewhat same entities that the other animals separated, and
began reuniting them in an artificial bond.
You're saying concepts are artificial? Hmm. I mean, that seems POV related. In other words I can imagine a perspective from which that is correct and I can see one from which artificial is the only artificial term. I just mean I'm tempted to reject the notion of artificiality. Another point might be that while in a beautiful sense you're onto an important notion, you glossed over the notion that the artificial bond cements more than just its separation. The separation has a life of its own (in that thoughts exists than are more than the sum of the surroudings). All that but I'm not even sure its relevant. I'm still thinking aboot it. Seemed relevant at first.
/And in doing that it imagined for itself something formless and immutable, something viable and separate
inside by which to string together these separate things. It imaged for itself an
ego, and with that the oddity of
insight.
While I'm impressed with your anaylsis and may end up agreeing with you, I have to try to put it in language I can understand. I'll give you my previous notion as to the say occurrence such that we can compare notes. I think there is some hybridization needed.
I think of the 'amount' or whatever of a consciousness as basically how much time one can 'fit' into awareness at any time now = the present or d/dt if you're down with calc (with I only barely am at this point). I think there are transcendental stages in the these amounts. In other words, I'd imagine there to be points at which the dynamic fundamentally changes. One the scale, as you become more aware and more aware and more aware (in terms of evolution), I'd imagine there to be thresholds at which things change fundamentally. Almost like the curl of wind around the corner of a building, time bends around itself until the whirlwind that
is consciousness (human type, or maybe even that which has
ego begins. From that perspective, ego almost becomes the completion of a feedback loop in time as it is finally reflected back upon itself in a manner by which it realizes what's going on.
Maybe? Hehe. Too much?
/That’s the human hallmark, my dear,
insight.. Which is not the same as self awareness as most think. Monkies with mirrors show self awareness but no insight. As do dolphins.
Again with the sliding scale. I'm not so quick to call insight a purely human ability since when I attempt to imagine what insight might be to a slug i think it's possible they have it too. I mean, maybe they figured out how to crawl the goo sack 23985r8 extended, how can I know?
It just seems likely that the idea of insight has to ride along the same sliding scale as consciousness.
/And I believe that language is what has us doing that-
going in. Insight. Language is what feeds the myth of homo duplex by falsely mystifying with a ‘mental voice’
I disagree. I think the myth is fed by the reality of a feedback loop in time - of time. Language though, enhances thought immensely, it's actually a catylist of sorts for hightened awareness through enhanced comprehension, but I don't think it's the mechanism. I think it's a tool of the trade and well on second thought it does feed the myth so to speak, but it isn't the reason the myth is there. That's what I was trying to say.
/And so, this word conscience to me is a false byproduct, or imitation of sorts-
Nope, consciousness is basically a name for the process that results from the time loop thing.
/
something static for language to work with. And language working with it is what in a timeless cycle of tactics has fed into this business of ‘ego’ and by doing so distilled ‘spirit’ in the process.
What is a "timeless cycle of tactics"? I think the "spirit" the same as "god" in that it's an easy answer to a tough question, inspired by a feeling of mystery regarding existence. A simple answer to the proverbial "WTF?". I think Meph had a good point about the tendency of labels to satiate curiousity and stifle analysis. Was that this thread?
/Homo duplex is a myth.
Your ASS is a myth, beeyatch.
LOL
/There’s more but………still with me?
You have my objections, now what of them!?!?
Please, refute my objections and bring the more.
I'm mostly with you for sure, exceptin' regardin' that one consciousness dealy, yo.
