News from Gaza Part 2

Discussion in 'The Cesspool' started by S.A.M., Nov 20, 2008.

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  1. Bells Staff Member

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    Read your own links properly and you tell me.

    I am guessing you missed this bit in the link you provided?

    In the same time that Sharon was preparing the withdrawal, pointed out critics, he was favoring settlements in the West Bank, among them Ma'ale Adumim, the largest Israeli settlement near Jerusalem. According to Peace Now, the number of settlers increased by 6,100 compared with 2004, to reach 250,000 in the West Bank.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%27s_unilateral_disengagement_plan

    Give with one hand and take from the other is how my mother puts it.

    Doesn't sound like a complete withdrawal to me. Does it to you?

    Again, from your link..

    Yep.. sounds peaceful to me. Give with one hand while you take from the other.
     
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  3. Mr.Spock Back from the dead Valued Senior Member

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    thanks for the clarity. and as i said, you failed to prove that. so did bells, who completely raped my arguments.
     
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  5. Mr.Spock Back from the dead Valued Senior Member

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    i wonder if hamas even recognize israel.
     
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  7. Mr.Spock Back from the dead Valued Senior Member

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    just a reminder from not so long ago.

    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/934798.html
     
  8. Mr.Spock Back from the dead Valued Senior Member

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    a 30 seconds read of the hamas charter shows were the problem lies.
    hamas is such a vile fundamental group they have a university for rockets.
     
  9. Mr.Spock Back from the dead Valued Senior Member

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    all those accusations were never proven and what is the point of a country without the very poeple it was supposed to help?

    and if you are saying you would do the same, then i have nothing to add.
     
  10. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    More the Fool Bells?, it is a historical fact, and it doesn't matter were the Quote was found, it is verbatim from the May 14, 1948 David Ben-Gurion speech and The Proclamation of 'Israel's Independence'

    http://simple.wikiquote.org/wiki/David_Ben-Gurion

    http://www.multaqa.org/pdfs/ISRALI INDEPENDANCE DECLERATION.pdf

    THE STATE OF ISRAEL will be ready to cooperate with the
    organs and representatives of the United Nations in the implementation of
    the Resolution of the Assembly of November, 29, 1947, and will take steps
    to bring about Economic Union over the whole of Palestine.
    We appeal to the United Nations to assist the Jewish people in the building
    of its State and to admit Israel into the family of Nations.
    In the midst of wanton aggression, we yet call upon the Arab inhabitants of
    the State of Israel to preserve the ways of peace and play their part in the
    development of the State, on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due
    representation in all its bodies and institutions - provisional and permanent.

    We extend our hand in peace and neighbourliness to all the neighbouring
    states and their peoples, and invite them to co-operate with the independent
    Jewish nation for the common good of all.
    The State of Israel is prepared to
    make its contribution to the progress of the Middle East as a whole.
    Our call goes out to the Jewish people all over the world to rally to our side
    in the task of immigration and development and to stand by us in the great
    struggle for the fulfilment of the dream of generations for the redemption of
    Israel.
    With trust in Almighty God, we set our hand to this Declaration, at this
    Session of the Provisional State Council, on this Sabbath eve, the fifth of
    Iyar, 5708, the fourteenth day of May, 1948."
    ---------
    The Signatories David Ben-Gurion, Daniel Auster, Mordechai Bentov, Isaac
     
  11. Bells Staff Member

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    Can't you read or remember, or just choosing to forget? You called me a liar about the numbers I provided and the links I provided. Now fucking show me where I lied.. give me links or apologise, instead of continuing to tell me I lied from that point on.

    I'm sorry, I'll correct my comment to make it easier for you to understand, since it appears you have the inability to read and comprehend.. You attempted to deny they were a terrorist organisation and you attempted to deny they had attempted to contact and collaborate with the Nazis. And you do call them heroes.
     
  12. Mr.Spock Back from the dead Valued Senior Member

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    israel has more than one million arabs living as class A citizens. they dont do national service which they refuse, they do not pay taxes, they get favorable positions in colleges and universities, they construct illegally buildings without permits and complain about lack of recognition from the government and on top of that they always protest against israel. on the last you kipur an arab mob in jaffa attacked the jewish residents of the city, in what was called a pogrom, inside israel.
     
  13. Bells Staff Member

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    Probably about as much as Israel recognised Hamas.

    The context in which the quote was placed on that site is, well, amusing to say the least. It forgets what came before the Proclamation. It forgets about the forced removal of Palestinians from their lands and homes. It doesn't even mention it. There is always a reason for rage and anger Buffalo. Or are you choosing to ignore that?

    How can you extend the hand of peace and friendship when you have forcibly removed thousands of people from their homes to establish the State in the first place. Tell me, would you feel friendly if you were removed from your home at gun point and forced to flee to a refugee camp? I wouldn't be.
     
  14. Mr.Spock Back from the dead Valued Senior Member

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    i have already commented on that. i thought you saw it.
    so how come HAMAS arent terrorists? because they are "defending their land"?
     
  15. Mr.Spock Back from the dead Valued Senior Member

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    now you are being evasive. hamas has claimed to never recognize israel as part of their religious racist ideology. are you denying that?
     
  16. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    Peace Now? are we trying a fast one dear?

    Peace Now:

    A left-wing non-governmental organization.

    Having reread the whole Wiki article again I find no reference to Peace Now, or any resettlement of Israelis from Gaza to the West Bank.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel's_unilateral_disengagement_plan

     
  17. Bells Staff Member

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    Really? You're saying no Arabs serve in the IDF? You're really sure about that?

    Muslims are not required to serve in the Israeli military, and outside the Bedouin community, very few (around 120 a year) volunteer.[49] Until 2000, each year between 5%-10% of the Bedouin population of draft age volunteered for the Israeli army, and Bedouin were well-known for their unique status as volunteers. The legendary Israeli soldier, Amos Yarkoni, first commander of the Shaked Reconnaissance Battalion in the Givati Brigade, was a Bedouin (born Abd el-Majid Hidr). However today the number of Bedouin in the army may be less than 1%.[64] As over half of the Bedouin population (80,000 out of 160,000) lives in villages unrecognized by the Israeli government and threatened demolition of these 45 villages has become increasingly acute, and as the Israeli government has failed to fulfill promises of equal service provision to Bedouin citizens, willingness among Bedouin to serve in the army has drastically dropped in recent years.[9]

    IDF figures indicate that in 2002 and 2003, Christians represented 0.1 percent of all recruits. In 2004, the number of recruits had doubled. Altogether, in 2003, the percentage of Christians serving had grown by 16 percent over the year 2000. The IDF does not publish figures on the exact number of recruits by religious denomination, and it is estimated that merely a few dozen Christians currently serve in the IDF.[56]

    Druze are required to serve in the IDF in accordance with an agreement between their local religious leaders and the Israeli government in 1956. Opposition to the decision among the Druze populace was evident immediately, but was unsuccessful in reversing the decision.[65] It is estimated that 85% of Druze men in Israel serve in the army.[66] In recent years, a growing minority from within the Druze community have denounced this mandatory enrollment, and refused to serve.[67][68] In 2001, Said Nafa, who identifies as a Palestinian Druze and serves as the head of the Balad party's national council, founded the "Pact of Free Druze", an organization that aims "to stop the conscription of the Druze and claims the community is an inalienable part of the Arabs in Israel and the Palestinian nation at large."[69]

    It is commonly felt among Palestinians that Israel's varying treatment of different Arab populations with Israeli citizenship, according to military service, is an extension of the British colonial strategy of 'Divide to Rule.' Druze often play high-ranking roles in elite guards involved in major operations in the Occupied Territories and Lebanon; Bedouin soldiers tend to occupy roles as Border policemen, keeping Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza (some of whom may be members of their extended family) out of Israel. These realities have facilitated a sharpened division between the Druze and Bedouin communities and the rest of the former and current inhabitants of Historic Palestine.[9]


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel
     
  18. Bells Staff Member

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    I'm sorry, you provide the original link, which I quoted from, and you're accusing me of pulling a fast one? How far down did you read sweetheart?

    I shall quote again from your link..

    That is the whole paragraph. Learn to not skim read or skip paragraphs in your own links. And also learn to use the scroll function and scroll down about half way, or use the contents menu at the top of the page and click on paragraph 4.2.. It's not that hard.

    Again, before you start accusing me of pulling a fast one, remember I got those figures and that quote from a link you posted earlier on. So if you fail to read your links properly, that's your issue, not mine.

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  19. Mr.Spock Back from the dead Valued Senior Member

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  20. Bells Staff Member

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    You have yet to retract your comments, instead you went on to keep calling me a liar.

    I never said Hamas were not terrorists. They are as much as a terrorist organisation as the Lehi were. That being said, your country recognised the Lehi as being heroes and commended them for it recently and Hamas is now the Governing body of the Palestinians. What exactly does that tell you about how fucked up the situation really is?

    No. I was reminding you that Hamas recognised Israel about as much as Israel recognised Hamas as a Government.

    You're sure about that?

    You're telling me the Israeli Army is not the IDF?

    And what about the Druze and Arab Christians?
     
  21. Mr.Spock Back from the dead Valued Senior Member

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    then why you are justifying them? how come they are allowed to fire on civilians?

    recognizing their government will have serious implications on the palestinians people. HAMAS are doing that for racist reasons. wouldnt you agree?

    i have spoken with many bedoiuns. honest or not, they do not consider themselves as arabs, at least to the extent the term is used to describe current day arabs.

    national service as far as i know, is not the IDF. druze are the most of loyal groups, they are not considered arabs by the arabs themselves. that is worse.
     
  22. aaa Registered Senior Member

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    remember when Israel withdrew from the Gaza strip in 2005 the Palestinians saw that as weakness. same thing went in the Lebanon war in 2006.
    I think if Israel stops all attacks now Hamas will consider this a total victory for the Gazans and the situation will only escalate.
    a one-sided cease fire can't be accepted by the Israeli government, and on the other hand Hamas pushes its efforts using survival skills until truce is declared. if cease fire is achieved, and Hamas's rocket launchers still function, then the main objective for this operation has not been accomplished.
     
  23. aaa Registered Senior Member

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    Hamas is willing to sacrifice its people to die a martyr death. They wont raise a white flag so easily.
     
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