Misogyny, Guns, Rape and Culture..

Much of what catches the public’s eye are not representative of sex crimes, sex offenders, or sex victims. Unfortunately, most of our rape laws are based on high profile cases such as these.

I think that antisocial personality disorder is just an extreme version of the narcissist. They share too many common traits, e.g., selfishness, rage, elaborate defense mechanisms, hypersensitivity to criticism, fear of rejection, entitlement, lack of empathy, etc.

Why not teach men not to rape? Well, for the same reason we can’t teach certain people not to murder. We don’t have cure for antisocial behavior.

An important part of an overall strategy is to increase bystander awareness, but if you want to increase the likelihood of interventions when rape-supportive attitudes are displayed, then I’d suggest ditching the overzealous feminist attitudes towards rape prevention. Keep it real!

Do you remember when feminists attacked Mrs. Nevada for suggesting that females learn to defend themselves? There are things that we can do to reduce our risk and self-defense is one of them. Men learn how to defend themselves and their family, and so can we. I enjoy being alone. I enjoy backpacking. I don’t want to restrict my activities. I happen to like boxing, and have studied martial arts, but you don’t have to take martial arts classes. There are simple, easy, and proven effective techniques that women can utilize. The best advice that I ever received was to conserve my energy. If you’re pinned, rest. Don’t move until he moves.

Why is rape tolerated in prison? Is it because there’s no access to females, and men have to have sex, or because they house antisocial and violent criminals?

One thing that men might find surprising, though, is that the relationship between tolerance of rape and sexist attitude is stronger than the relationship between tolerance of rape and antisocial behavior.

 

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No, but we do have a partial cure for stupidity - education.

You are not going to stop all the rapists out there, just as you are not going to stop all the people who kill. But just as many people kill through stupidity (drunk drivers, gun accidents, bar fights gotten out of hand etc) many men rape partly out of ignorance i.e. "she passed out and she didn't say no so it wasn't rape" "I just assumed she was playing hard to get." These are the people that education can help.

Will it stop all rape? Definitely not. But reducing the incidence of rape is a good goal, even so.

 

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Honest to Pete, we are now blaming "overzealous feminist attitudes" for social tolerance of displayed rapist mentality?

This would be the problem in, say, male sports locker rooms, male dominated blue collar work environments, Republican political gatherings, and the like - those feminists out there, overzealous, have created an environment where the "bystanders" that would ordinarily intervene and shut that shit down now feel a new and unprecedented pressure to let it slide - that's the argument.

So back before over-zealous feminists poisoned the well of reasonable male "intervention", we lived in world in which women could count on reasonable intervention and lack of support for rapist attitudes among the men in their communities - that is the claim?

Rape and murder rates vary quite a bit between different human communities. Just sayin'.

 

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There are no "bystanders" in rape, in my opinion... either you intervene to stop the rape, or you are just as guilty as the person committing the act...

This won't help in the case of someone who rapes, then kills the victim - in a case like that, I would think you would be better off fighting like hell - put that adrenaline to use.

Far as I'm aware... it isn't "tolerated" in prison. It's just a bit harder to deal with... especially with our overcrowded prisons.

Anyone who "tolerates" rape... I honestly have no words for. How can someone "tolerate" such an act?

 

In the US it's not only tolerated but at times employed as a threat by coercive authorities, referenced with satisfaction in the outside world as appropriate revenge upon criminals of some kinds, and so forth.

This is not inevitable in prisons, btw - even very coercive and abusive and impoverished setups, such as the Chinese prison system under Mao, have been managed so as to be almost free of rape. It's a choice US society has made.

 

Absolutely not. When preventive measures do fail, we don’t have to hold the victim responsible. Preventing rape doesn't necessarily promote rape. Teach men not to rape, sure, but do you really want to wait around for a rape free culture? It’s disingenuous to say that rape prevention is ineffective and to make it a politically incorrect strategy is utterly ridiculous.

 

That depends on what rape prevention strategies we are talking about.

I think the rape prevention strategies we see in, say Saudi Arabia, are both ineffective with regards to the overall goal, and politically incorrect. With that example as demonstration of principle, we can return to discussing the rape prevention strategies being advocated and promoted in the US without automatically labeling observation of their deficiencies or problems "ridiculous".

Some rape prevention measures do, however, lead directly to holding the victim responsible in the cfase of an actusl rape. That is not theoretical: we see this happen almost as a norm in the US. Those measures are, to that degree, suboptimal, and others should be given priority - agreed?

 

Agreed.

I can’t recall the exact article but I remember reading about India’s rape crisis. Lower female status and sexist attitudes were always present. So, that really couldn't explain the sudden spike, but female-to-male ratios could. Ah, sexist sex selection, a double whammy.

 

This is, again, a problem of people... the Prison Rape Elimination Act of 2003 would seem to indicate that jail rape is not, in fact, acceptable or tolerated...

But, then again, murder has been illegal for a long time, and it still happens...

 

Provided those measures are just as effective - agreed. It is never OK, though, to _replace_ rape prevention with rape victim management. By far the best approach to potential rapes is to prevent those rape, not to start planning for the victim's treatment.

 

Yah, it’s common in American culture for men to open fire on female strangers for rejecting their advances. If this assertion had any actual basis in fact, then it would be reasonable for woman to interview prospective romantic partners at gunpoint.

Sounds similar to the arguments given by 19th century American slave holders, about how granting personhood to their then legal captives would affect their constitutional rights of property.

You mean none were personally accepted.

 

Capracus - except in this case, you are directly trading (or trying to trade) one life for another

 

Turducken, Turducken, Turducken

Violence in response to not getting some snatch is all too common in American culture. And, besides, your beliefs are of no comfort to the dead, or the living, grieving community.

I've done the joke before, for someone else, but we really should go out and catch a flick together. There's a cinema in town that plays old classics; they might have Dracula later this month, starring Bela Lugosi as the outsized zygote.

The problem with your argument is that slaves did not exist inside a person's body.

That is, of course, unless your argument presumes women aren't people. You know, like maybe they're mere locations.

No, none were forthcoming.

Unless, of course, you count evasion and excuses, unsupported ontological presuppositions for the sake of argument, the rights of men, the rights of corpses, and what the fuck happens if you stuff the baby back inside the woman somehow count as relevant answers.

See, it's something a lot of people really don't seem to get:

"What's the weather like today?"

―I don't like that color of red on the walls.

"That's not an answer."

―Yes it is.

"Well, okay, you're right. It's an answer. But to a different question."​

But no. There were no forthcoming relevant answers.

 

*shakes head*

I really don't understand it Bells... as a guy, I simply can't wrap my head around it. To me, it sounds like it's less a "guy" problem and something more fundamental... a lack of respect for human life and dignity. I can't understand the idea that because someone said "no" to you and rejected your advances that you have some right to harm them... how do people come to that conclusion?

I just... I don't understand it...

 

I would never defend property but my body is not an object. I am my body.

Do you think that it is safe to assume that a rapist just wants sex?

It is fight or flight, not freeze!

 

http://hellogiggles.com/harmful-body-image-compliment

Our very society seems to be losing sight of whats important... and that is, loving ones self

 

Again: communities and even whole societies vary, dramatically, in their rates of rape (including prison rape) and murder. Saying that it's "just people" overlooks some fairly obvious contingencies, and overlooks some fairly obvious possible avenues for reducing the prevalence of rape.

Recognition of basic physical reality would be step one: for example, rape is tolerated, even encouraged at times, in US prisons. It could be much reduced, and it is not. That's the current state of affairs.

Which brings up the question of how "effective" is defined and measured, or in this case projected as likely upon the adoption new measures. We have, for consideration, the circumstance that such measures as educating women and forbidding certain forms of sexual assault, such as marital rape, often increases the official prevalence of rape; meanwhile, adopting rape-prevention measures that abet victim blaming often reduce the official prevalence of rape without seeming to improve the lives of women at all.

The major difficulty with rape prevention measures that focus on changing the behavior of rape-abetting males, holding males to account and curbing their privileges in various ways, etc, is not that anyone has shown them to be ineffective, but that they impose burdens and liabilities on men.

 

Nothing in life is guaranteed. A violent attack is never a win-win situation, but when it comes down to survival, you are on your own. You’re right. Surviving is more important than avoiding rape, and fighting back isn't fool proof, but if you fail to prepare, you fail.