Does it work Physically , nebel .
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Jupiter's Orbital Velocity & Equatorial Velocity cancel?
- Thread starter nebel
- Start date
Does it work Physically , nebel .
Does it work Physically , nebel .[/QUOTE
reply:
no, this is merely an illustration of the exact rotation of Venus, as it would occur if the planet would be thought of as being mounted in the center of a "disk" that is the ~diameter of, -and "rolling" inside the Mars orbit.
The sun, similarly would rotate correctly on its way around the galaxy if it were mounted in the center of a "disk" the diameter of the Earth orbit.
There is no bodies moving in straight lines on the " disks" of the model. but
The balls obviously define the rotating rim of the "disk" though, and at the end of their line, they apparently are at zero velocity, as a tire would be as it touches the road.
The model results from the formula: Orbital velocity : Rotational velocity, a ratio, multiplied by the Radius of the body.
In the OP, the example Jupiter, at Vo ~10, and Vr ~10 km/sec a ratio of 1, Jupiter "rools" on it's self, the Zero velocity is just outside its surface.
The Earth rotates on a disk at the moon distance,
The Moon on a disk at the Earth distance ( all tidally locked satellites have those ratio)
Venus rotates on a disk at the Mars orbit. (Or on the fast track near the sun)
Saturn also "rolls' on itself, zero velocity track inside the planet the equator, like a railroad wheel, the Equator actually going backward on the orbit at noon.
This actually happens physically, on the 2 last examples. but
too many direct connections in the numbers to be a bunch of coincidences only.
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I am not sure what you mean by this. Are you saying from the vantage point of the sun that Jupiter would have retrograde motion?
no, but at noon, the equator and the moons will have a greatly reduced orbital velocity. example Ganymede, in the news:
New Scientist magazine:NASA’s Juno probe will today dive low over Jupiter’s largest moon Ganymede,
Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/articl...-the-first-time-in-two-decades/#ixzz6xAOivCHX
at Jupiter noon , Ganymede, at perihelion, it should travel only at 2.2 kms around the sun, nearly in sync with the star's rotation. and
at midnight, the moon's perihelion,as a cycloid it travels at ~ 24 kms, matching the Vo of Mars. all while maintaining a constant orbital velocity about the parent planet. (about which the probe is currently in orbit)
The zero velocity area formula (Vo:Vr) x R gives the orbital radius of Ganymede, as expected of a tidally locked body. (10.9 : .o2677) x 2634 = ~1 o70 363.
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A point on the planet's equator that is "stationary with respect to the sun" is merely stationary with respect to a line joining it to the sun. That line is a radius of the orbit, sweeping round the sun at orbital velocity.
There were 2 occasions, last weeks, when that line had 3 bodies on it the lunar and the solar eclipses. During those minutes, first, with the solar ring event, , as seen from the earth, the moon is in the position, where that radius line of the earth orbit would be at a contact standstill at the moon's distance, just as a cycloid would at contact cusp. --. According to the (Vo : Vr) x R formula,
the Earth rotates as if it were at the center of rolling on a virtual disk that contacts the Moon orbit's perihelion.
right, so: since the moon moves @ 30 km/s with the earth, and 1 kms retrograde on its own orbit at perihelion, eclipses are temporary events.Since the point moves at orbital velocity for that radius
For the Moon, the formula ( Vo : Vr ) x R shows that a close point on the moon always faces the Earth, because the moon rotates as if at the center of a invisible disk with a radius of its orbit.
remarkable, that both bodies have cycloid motions that are anchored at their orbital distance.
There were 2 occasions, last weeks, when that line had 3 bodies on it the lunar and the solar eclipses. During those minutes, first, with the solar ring event, , as seen from the earth, the moon is in the position, where that radius line of the earth orbit would be at a contact standstill at the moon's distance, just as a cycloid would at contact cusp. --. According to the (Vo : Vr) x R formula,
the Earth rotates as if it were at the center of rolling on a virtual disk that contacts the Moon orbit's perihelion.
right, so: since the moon moves @ 30 km/s with the earth, and 1 kms retrograde on its own orbit at perihelion, eclipses are temporary events.
For the Moon, the formula ( Vo : Vr ) x R shows that a close point on the moon always faces the Earth, because the moon rotates as if at the center of a invisible disk with a radius of its orbit.
remarkable, that both bodies have cycloid motions that are anchored at their orbital distance.
Sum up your thoughts nebel . Seriously . Sum up your thinking . What's your big solar system picture ..........
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Sum up your thoughts nebel . Seriously . Sum up your thinking . What's your big solar system picture
I am only 90 years old, and not quite ready to give such an all encompassing summary, but feel I am on the right track on this in life.
Because life exists here, phan tastic things happen. the coming of pin-point landings anywhere/ How we got here in the first place and how the place was buid another puzzle left for us to work on.
I see the ratios in the numbers as remnants , consequences what went on in the past, the assembling. so. as for this thread, theme,
Numbers dont lie, and that the ratios in the equation (Vo ; Vr ) x R give as results for
Venus an imaginary disk radius, that rotates inside the mars orbit, , with the right speed near the sun, for
the Earth a zero velocity "contact" at the moon perihelion, In this scheme,
the Moon"rolling" around the earth zero velocity centered on the planet,
Jupiter a curtate cycloid but nearly zero, for
Saturn a prolate cycloid, like the wheel of a railcar, actually reversing orbital speed.
all these are interesting facts, similar to the Kepler area law, in that they are useless to advanced contemporary space work, but it was very satisfying to J. Kepler, who sensed that he was on the trightrack with the creator, and got himself excommunicated in the process.
I am only 90 years old, and not quite ready to give such an all encompassing summary, but feel I am on the right track on this in life.
Because life exists here, phan tastic things happen. the coming of pin-point landings anywhere/ How we got here in the first place and how the place was buid another puzzle left for us to work on.
I see the ratios in the numbers as remnants , consequences what went on in the past, the assembling. so. as for this thread, theme,
Numbers dont lie, and that the ratios in the equation (Vo ; Vr ) x R give as results for
Venus an imaginary disk radius, that rotates inside the mars orbit, , with the right speed near the sun, for
the Earth a zero velocity "contact" at the moon perihelion, In this scheme,
the Moon"rolling" around the earth zero velocity centered on the planet,
Jupiter a curtate cycloid but nearly zero, for
Saturn a prolate cycloid, like the wheel of a railcar, actually reversing orbital speed.
all these are interesting facts, similar to the Kepler area law, in that they are useless to advanced contemporary space work, but it was very satisfying to J. Kepler, who sensed that he was on the trightrack with the creator, and got himself excommunicated in the process.
Keep going . And therefore because of what you say , the consequences are ....the Solar System is moving how ?
Keep going . And therefore because of what you say , the consequences are ....the Solar System is moving how
The solar system moves the way it moves. some of the orbits finer details can only be really analyzed using Einstein's relativity equations, for example in our GPS systems based on satellite movements. Here in this thread we are going back to kepler's time, broad stroke orbital mechanics, showing up in triangles and wheels.
just as kepler's area law defines an imaginary triangle between orbital positions, the Zero Velocity Zone calculations with (Vo divided by Vr) times Radius, describes the circumference of the area swept out by the cusp of the cycloid of the orbiting, rotating body. so,
are kepler's stretching imaginary lines, or nebel's stationary cycloid cusps pseudoscience? both based on real numbers? nebel adding rotation to the mix?
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The solar system moves the way it moves. some of the orbits finer details can only be really analyzed using Einstein's relativity equations, for example in our GPS systems based on satellite movements. Here in this thread we are going back to kepler's time, broad stroke orbital mechanics, showing up in triangles and wheels.
just as kepler's area law defines an imaginary triangle between orbital positions, the Zero Velocity Zone calculations with (Vo divided by Vr) times Radius, describes the circumference of the area swept out by the cusp of the cycloid of the orbiting, rotating body. so,
are kepler's stretching imaginary lines, or nebel's stationary cycloid cusps pseudoscience? both based on real numbers? nebel adding rotation to the mix?
In English , nebel . Simply your saying what ?
From post#328
In English , nebel . Simply your saying what ?
If I could, I would send pictures which are supposed to be worth 1000 [english] words, and excuse my accent.
During the conversations on this thread,
The ratio between Rotation and Orbital velocity was examined, first for Jupiter, and then for several bodies. Bringing in the radius of the planet yielded an interesting picture, where the bodies could be seen rotating wheel-like in "stationary" space , the solar field.
Points on Saturn's equator or example were found to rotate like rail wheels, in a prolate cycloid motion., backward , in a retrograde loop at noon and more than twice the orbital speed at midnight. Would that have any local effects? seeing that the planet as a whole maintains its constant orbital velocity? then
There emerged the theoretical side of the Vo/Vr ratio, (similar to the stretching triangles of Kepler's 2nd law), namely, depending on the radius of the rotating body, there are fixed distances in the solar system, where these extended cycloid zero velocity areas occur. as unexpected examples:
The Earth , multiplying its radius by the ratio of Vo : Vr gives the Moon orbit.
Venus, would rotate right, if her imaginary cycloid cusp would roll inside the Mars orbit, and at twice her speed near the sun. (like a ball in a bearing) so,
A picture emerged of a wheeling world that revolves, rotates at marked distances where there would be zero velocity contact, derived from (Vo:Vr) x R.
If I could, I would send pictures which are supposed to be worth 1000 [english] words, and excuse my accent.
During the conversations on this thread,
The ratio between Rotation and Orbital velocity was examined, first for Jupiter, and then for several bodies. Bringing in the radius of the planet yielded an interesting picture, where the bodies could be seen rotating wheel-like in "stationary" space , the solar field.
Points on Saturn's equator or example were found to rotate like rail wheels, in a prolate cycloid motion., backward , in a retrograde loop at noon and more than twice the orbital speed at midnight. Would that have any local effects? seeing that the planet as a whole maintains its constant orbital velocity? then
There emerged the theoretical side of the Vo/Vr ratio, (similar to the stretching triangles of Kepler's 2nd law), namely, depending on the radius of the rotating body, there are fixed distances in the solar system, where these extended cycloid zero velocity areas occur. as unexpected examples:
The Earth , multiplying its radius by the ratio of Vo : Vr gives the Moon orbit.
Venus, would rotate right, if her imaginary cycloid cusp would roll inside the Mars orbit, and at twice her speed near the sun. (like a ball in a bearing) so,
A picture emerged of a wheeling world that revolves, rotates at marked distances where there would be zero velocity contact, derived from (Vo:Vr) x R.
To your last Statement . More detail , nebel . Zero velocity contact . Then why do they contact ?
To your last Statement . More detail , nebel . Zero velocity contact . Then why do they contact ?
Today, if solar system bodies were still making zero contact at same point, near or far, we come up with these interesting imaginary rotating disks. At some point in the past, there probably were zero velocity contact situations in the cloud that formed the sun, planets and moons.
here is a picture of what went on 400 years ago somewhere else, Moon forming, not with a bang like our's, but orderly, out of a disk, where particles still are at ~zero velocity with each other:
Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics. "Spotted: An exoplanet with the potential to form moons." ScienceDaily. ScienceDaily, 22 July 2021. <www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/07/210722112950.htm>.
Why this is so? wheels just have to roll , frictionless at some contact point, unless you put in energy or extract it. braking and accelerating.
Why Venus has to reach to Mars, the Earth to the Moon at noon, Saturn to do a loop ? perhaps we will see, the thread, that started with Jupiter's close call, might turn into an alternative theory yet.
Today, if solar system bodies were still making zero contact at same point, near or far, we come up with these interesting imaginary rotating disks. At some point in the past, there probably were zero velocity contact situations in the cloud that formed the sun, planets and moons.
here is a picture of what went on 400 years ago somewhere else, Moon forming, not with a bang like our's, but orderly, out of a disk, where particles still are at ~zero velocity with each other:
Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics. "Spotted: An exoplanet with the potential to form moons." ScienceDaily. ScienceDaily, 22 July 2021. <www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/07/210722112950.htm>.
Why this is so? wheels just have to roll , frictionless at some contact point, unless you put in energy or extract it. braking and accelerating.
Why Venus has to reach to Mars, the Earth to the Moon at noon, Saturn to do a loop ? perhaps we will see, the thread, that started with Jupiter's close call, might turn into an alternative theory yet .
To your last statement .
Thinking in Science Evolves .
To your last statement .
Thinking in Science Evolves .
"Why Venus has to reach to Mars, the Earth to the Moon at noon, Saturn to do a loop ? perhaps we will see, the thread, that started with Jupiter's close call, might turn into an alternative theory yet."
The Harvard/ Smithsonian quote was about a 400 year old situation, now seen.
The formula (Vo:Vr)xR introduces rotation into the 400 year old theories of Johannes Kepler. Not imaginary triangles in the sky (his second law), but rotating, vibrating disks, with imaginary zero velocity, frictionless contacts.
Evolution in leaps. a 400 year leap. Had Kepler known rotation, there would have been no hiatus. .
University of Leicester. "Space scientists reveal secret behind Jupiter's 'energy crisis'." ScienceDaily. ScienceDaily, 4 August 2021. <www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/08/210804123339.htm>.
The energy crisis was, that the equator regions are unexplainably hot. so:
even if the electrical/ magnetic action resulting in the Auroras also heats the equatorial atmosphere, the Auroras come from an outside influence, and
as seen from the neutrally moving exterior,
the Jupiter equator moves at near zero velocity at noon and at double the orbital speed at midnight.
Tires get heated at their zero contact with the road too. The auroras are at the hubs, magnetism is the only other twist.
The energy crisis was, that the equator regions are unexplainably hot. so:
even if the electrical/ magnetic action resulting in the Auroras also heats the equatorial atmosphere, the Auroras come from an outside influence, and
as seen from the neutrally moving exterior,
the Jupiter equator moves at near zero velocity at noon and at double the orbital speed at midnight.
Tires get heated at their zero contact with the road too. The auroras are at the hubs, magnetism is the only other twist.
If the auroras are in any way sun-related. Solar particles, fields, carry an orbital velocity of 2 km/s. The equator of Jupiter, at noon is quasi stationary with that. but plows through that field at ~26 km/s at midnight. Both poles and sunup and sundown get the average shear @ a constant ~ 13 km/ sec.
those 5 hourly repeated changes should account for interesting gradient effects.
those 5 hourly repeated changes should account for interesting gradient effects.
http://home.earthlink.net/~parvey/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/relarotate.gifThe situation you are talking about is like this. The planet is rolling along an imaginary circle as it travels around the Sun.
well yes, this alternative theory came with real world numbers, put into the formula (V orbit : V rotation) x Radius. and gives different ratios and sizes for the imaginary circle that the planet or moon "rolls along " riding an invisible swirl so to speak.
Here is a swirl reference from New Scientist magazine.
Can Einstein’s forgotten theory of space solve the cosmology crisis?
Decades ago, Einstein concocted a theory in which space doesn't just curve, but swirls like a cyclone. Now it is making a comeback because it could fix several of the biggest problems in cosmology
Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/articl...ace-solve-the-cosmology-crisis/#ixzz79K8HAgKU
Today, if solar system bodies were still making zero contact at same point, near or far, we come up with these interesting imaginary rotating disks. At some point in the past, there probably were zero velocity contact situations in the cloud that formed the sun, planets and moons.
here is a picture of what went on 400 years ago somewhere else, Moon forming, not with a bang like our's, but orderly, out of a disk, where particles still are at ~zero velocity with each other:
Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics. "Spotted: An exoplanet with the potential to form moons." ScienceDaily. ScienceDaily, 22 July 2021. <www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/07/210722112950.htm>.
Why this is so? wheels just have to roll , frictionless at some contact point, unless you put in energy or extract it. braking and accelerating.
Why Venus has to reach to Mars, the Earth to the Moon at noon, Saturn to do a loop ? perhaps we will see, the thread, that started with Jupiter's close call, might turn into an alternative theory yet.
The Earth shouldn't be able to attract the moon into orbit . Even Isaac Asimov said the Earth is not able to capture the moon . Naturally . Through gravity .
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The Earth shouldn't be able to attract the moon into orbit . Even Isaac Asimov said the Earth is not able to capture the moon . Naturally . Through gravity .
Well, the quote from Science Daily July 2021 p0st #332, did not speak of capture, but moons forming out of another, far away , a circumstellar, circumplanetary cloud 400 years ago. Yes, our moon as per indications, formed from a glancing blow , mostly from Earth's mass. It was not captured hook bait and sinker, like some retrograde moons of other planets, which are captured asteroids.
The common origin of Earth and Moon is expressed / identified in the present
alternative theory (V orbit : V rotation) x R = Zero velocity radius/ area.
by the fact, that the the formula gives
the the Moon's zero velocity point as the Earth, and amazingly the Earth's " roll radius" as the New Moon's distance.
The above formula defines an imaginary disk, on which a planet, body would rotate, and correctly revolve, just as Kepler's second law defines a imaginary triangle that defines the area or base of a planet during motion.
It gives ratios between Velocity and Spin, , Kepler had his triangles right 400 years ago,*** Astronomers had to wait 200 years to see the spins. Now we see that velocity and spins are related back to the origins and interactions, -- show the zero areas that came out of the swirling mass around the sun.
*** A NASA site opines that it was Kepler's laws and not an apple that led newton to fall into his profound, simple gravity insights.
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