Is the brain necessary for consciousness?

Discussion in 'Parapsychology' started by Magical Realist, Jan 27, 2014.

  1. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    The full terminology of Darwinian Evolution;
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Origin_of_Species#
    Yep, by means of "natural selection"!
     
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  3. river

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  5. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, I agree.
    Intellect is an evolving ability in parallel with increase brain complexity.
     
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  7. river

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    What Brain complexity increase ?
     
  8. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I don't know for sure, but IMO, the beneficial mutation of fusing two ancestral chromosomes was causal to the growth of a larger brain with more folding allowing for much greater data processing capacity.

    Hence the new terms like ORCH OR (Orchestrated Objective Reduction), and IIT (Integrated Information Theory)

    There is one indisputable difference between humans and all other hominids. All Great Apes, except humans have 48 pr chromosomes, where all humans have 46 pr chromosomes. This was due to the fusion of 2 chromosomes in our common ancestor that produced chromosome 2 in humans which is twice as large as all other shared chromosomes. This combinatory growth instruction of Chromosome 2 must have been responsible for "what makes us human".

    I believe that is proof of the increase in growth of brain size and complexity, which is the unique survival mechanism that has allowed humans to manipulate and also destroy the earth's biosphere, whereas all other apes still live in harmony within the constraints of the natural environment, where we hunt them down to collect their hands for making ashtrays.

    Due to this drastic "mutation" (rather than a slow sensory refinement) we became too smart for our own good.

    Interestingly, this process is described in the biblical allegory of "man eating the fruit from the tree of knowledge" and thereby becoming "Strangers in Paradise".
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2021
  9. river

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    I find that there is more confusion about things and consciousness .
     
  10. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Well yes, of course there is but consider that humans are the only apes with 46 chromosomes and that all other apes are relatively of the same intellect with 48 pr chromosomes.

    All other differences are either cosmetic or adaptions to the environment. Otherwise we share about 98.8% of the same DNA !

    Humans and chimps share a surprising 98.8 percent of their DNA.

    This must have been soon after the chromosomal mutation occurred.
    https://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/pe...ing-our-past/dna-comparing-humans-and-chimps#

    I believe this chance fusion of two chromosomes into one single larger chromosome is what set humans on a different evolutionary trajectory from other apes. IMO, this is a logically defensible proposition.
     
  11. river

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    The larynx , vocal chords . Is the difference . Which is more advanced in Humans than any other primate . More complex communication between Humans . Leads to more advanced intelligence .
     
  12. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    IMO, it leads to greater knowledge, not necessarily intelligence.
    First, I believe you underestimate the range of communication that other biology employs which is outside the ability of humans. Many anymals have natural communication tools that far outstrip the natural sensory communication tools of humans (we augment our sensory limitations with AI).

    But I will agree that sophisticated communication does increase the knowledge of those who are exposed to sophisticated communication. And no one claims that a bacterium is as smart as a human, yet bacteria can act in concert based on very specific species oriented language codes. See bacterial "quorum sensing" (Bonnie Bassler).

    Bacteria are some of the oldest living organisms on earth and "communication" already begins its evolutionary path with these single-celled organisms in an ever-increasing sophistication and complexity in parallel with the evolution of more and greater sophisticated and complex multicellular organisms.
     
  13. river

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    Never built a rocket .
     
  14. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Don't need to build them. They hitch rides inside humans or the rockets humans build.
    Clever strategy.....

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    Last edited: Oct 17, 2021
  15. river

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    Sterile environment these rockets . Get your point though .

    Holistic communication by the Brain of the whole brings forth consciousness . If this didn't happen then it would be disconbobulation of the brain . No parts of the brain communicating with any other .

    And never produced the Larynx .
     
  16. river

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    The brain gives consciousness a place to become . And then evolve . Consciousness won't evolve floating around in empty space . Not in the beginning of intelligent Life's intellect .
     
  17. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Watch:

    Listen:


    No Larynx but a Syrinx
     
  18. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Define consciousness. Note: the importance of the suffix .....-ness which indicates an abstract "universal" quality.

    Universal (metaphysics)
    and

    Ness-ity-hood principle[edit]
    Now consider the implication of the term "CONSCIOUSNESS". What does that really mean?

    IMO, it includes acquired abilities that are a functional result of evolution via natural selection of successful survival strategies.

    I listed "quorum sensing " before and that is a purely chemical language, but remarkably each separate species of bacteria has its own intra-species language which cannot be used by other bacteria.
    However, they also have an inter-species language by which they communicate with other species of bacteria.
    Bonnie Bassler calls it the bacterial Esperanto.

    IMO, this species specific separation of chemical "words" is a functional proto-model of an ability to communicate.
    Once a successful survival strategy is established, by any means, it has become part of the natural world and subject to evolutionary processes.
     
  19. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    On second thought, I'm not sure what you mean by this. Unless you mean intraspecies communication as I already explained, if you mean internal communication inside the brain internal, this may explain our astounding mental abilities as compared to other living organisms.

    The brain alone has 125 trillion data sharing (communicating) synaptic neural connections in the cerebral cortex, let alone throughout the rest of the body's neural network.

    Stunning details of brain connections revealed
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/11/101117121803.htm#

    Brain cell differences could be key to learning in humans and AI
    Date: October 6, 2021
    Source: Imperial College London

    Summary:

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    Artificial intelligence concept, computer chip (stock image).
    Credit: © vchalup / stock.adobe.com

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/10/211006112626.htm

    p.s. And we always end up with a concept that specific patterns rather than just physical properties may yield consciousness. (Tegmark)
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2021
  20. river

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    To the p.s. ; what are these ; concept specific patterns based on ?
     
  21. river

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    Electronics is not the Brain , Nervous System .

    I have wondered , sometimes , where we would be , in the money spent on AI research , were directed towards our , Human full potential research .
     
  22. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    system patterns that allow for Integrated data processing (Tononi, Tegmark, Penrose, Hameroff)
    They are in artificial intelligence.
    I believe we already are doing massive research in the function of MT in relation to dynamical data processing. It's just that here we are operating at nanoscale and there are severe observational limitations.

    What are microtubules used in?
    Perhaps this is exactly where AI may be useful in modelling various types of brains and brain patterns at microscale which can be designed and built for testing emergent computing phenomena.

    GPT3 is already built on a microscale functional model of the human brain and is trained to think in human ways. Once a functional pattern is established we can begin to think about reducing it to nanoscale (molecular) proportions.

    p.s. technology already uses artificial MT for various data processing purposes.

    continued.......
     
  23. river

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    Highlighted

    System pattern based on what , Exactly ?
     

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