Is Science a value system?

Discussion in 'The Cesspool' started by Magical Realist, Jan 15, 2015.

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  1. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    And finally, I think the greatest educator of our time said it all.
    Sagan pointed out that "all of human history has happened on that tiny pixel," shown here inside a blue circle, "which is our only home" (speech at Cornell University, October 13, 1994).
    Carl Sagan titled his 1994 book Pale Blue Dot: A Vision of the Human Future in Space after the photograph. In it, he expresses his thoughts on a deeper meaning of the image:[22][23]

    From this distant vantage point, the Earth might not seem of any particular interest. But for us, it's different. Consider again that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.

    The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that in glory and triumph they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner. How frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds. Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity – in all this vastness – there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves.

    The Earth is the only world known, so far, to harbor life. There is nowhere else, at least in the near future, to which our species could migrate. Visit, yes. Settle, not yet. Like it or not, for the moment, the Earth is where we make our stand. It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known.

    Carl Sagan, Pale Blue Dot: A Vision of the Human Future in Space, 1997 reprint, pp. xv–xvi


    or if you prefer and rather here Carl's calming moving words via u tube.....




    Hope all that helps
     
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  3. river

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    It does

    But until we get honesty in science and science research and make it up to the moment news , our advancement in knowledge and hence Humanities survival is up in air.

    I'm not talking to the informed people here

    I'm talking to those who for what ever reason are not informed
     
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  5. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    There is honesty in science in the main. Certainly as in any discipline/endeavour, there are sometimes individual exceptions.
    Where the honesty and integrity urgently needs to be installed, are with those at the fringes, and there dire and dishonest actions, in trying to break into the halls of academia.
    Like the cocky on the biscuit tin, they just ain't in it.
     
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  7. river

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    Honesty is never in the mainstream

    There should never be a " mainstream " in the first place , because knowledge , thoughts , ever evolves
     
  8. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    That's plain stupid and dumb...in both cases..
     
  9. river

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    Why ?
     
  10. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    You were informed in post 23.
     
  11. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    You sound like a plaque hanging on the wall. All hail the scientific method. Eternal arbiter of what is true and real. Amen! lol!

    Look, I don't expect people, even strutting self-appointed spokesmen for science like you, to be without values. I simply propose that they acknowledge that there are no values in facts or knowledge per se. The value is placed on it by ourselves, and those values are what we each, in our own lives, were raised to believe in and espouse in our own lives. Is that really so hard to admit? That science expresses a devotion to ideals and aspirations that you have for yourself in your personal life. That you USE science as others would a life philosophy or a religion?
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2015
  12. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Actually you list technologies that were only used in the field of astronomy. The science of astronomy itself was not utilized in creating these implements. So no, astronomical science benefits us not one iota, as if knowing facts about space has some transformative spiritual impact on the human mind. It doesn't. If anything else it simple emphasizes what an alone and insignificant speck we are in the scheme of things. Certainly a nihilistic conclusion if there ever was one.
     
  13. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    To say astronomy/cosmology has not benefited mankind is dumb, really dumb!
     
  14. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    I think the argument that you are having is mainly with yourself. You are the one who is making "science" out to be more than it is.

    Atheists get their facts from science and not the Bible. Some Christians (for example) get their facts from science. Both atheists and theists get their values elsewhere.

    Science doesn't express a devotion to ideals other than scientific ideals. People get their values largely from society.

    I think (and may be wrong) that you are trying to equate atheism to a belief system just like religion and are somehow trying to involve science.

    Do you have a problem with the methodology of the scientific method?

    Saying that cosmology isn't beneficial to society is just silly. It may make you feel insignificant but you are. I feel awe but in any event it doesn't matter how we feel. The reality is what is important.

    You seem to be arguing that you would feel better if the facts were just kept away from you.

    You don't have to read and other than the Bible maybe you don't...so what is your issue with other's having an interest in knowledge?
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2015
  15. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Spare me the insults before I report you.
     
  16. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Flowery rhetoric about the universe is philosophy at best and spiritual prose at worse. But it's not science. Not by a long shot.
     
  17. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    The science wasn't what Sagan said but rather what he did. Why are you making "science" the scapegoat for whatever your real issue is?
     
  18. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Spare me the bullshit cop outs and excuses.
    Astronomy/Cosmology has been and will be beneficial to human kind at the top echelon and for many reasons, just as I have listed. To deny such observations is dumb.
     
  19. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Exactly....silly philosophical ranting is all he has.
     
  20. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    That's your opinion, and thank f^$@ most are not of that mind set anyway.
    So continue to live in your dreams.
     
  21. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, I would also like to see some truthful answers to those questions.
    Well Magical Realist?
     
  22. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Which is what Carl sagan, [and myself] were trying to get across.

    And the facts that cosmology has presented so far to human kind is awe inspiring and should help continue to gain younger people that will also be taken by the majesty and awe and knowledge that we gain.
    How can anyone claim knowedge does not benefit mankind? Crazy!
     
  23. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    For one thing it can find asteroids that may hit the Earth so that humans can take evasive actions to thwart there hitting Earth. I'd say that's a very big reason astronomy has helped.


    Industry

    — Your iPhone’s camera is a charge-coupled device (CCD) — an instrument, which converts the movement of electrical charge into a digital value. Originally developed for astronomy, CCD’s are now used in most cameras, webcams and cell phones.

    Every iPhone with has a built-in CCD

    — The computer language Forth, originally developed for the 36-foot telescope on Kitt Peak is now used by FedEx to track packages.

    — AT&T uses IRAF — software written by the National Optical Astronomy Observatory — to analyze computer systems.

    — Kodak film, originally created by astronomers studying the sun, is used extensively by the medical and industrial industries, photographers and artists.

    Aerospace

    — Space-based telescopes have advanced defense satellites, which require identical technology and hardware.

    — Global Positioning System satellites rely on astronomical objects — quasars and distant galaxies — to determine accurate positions.

    Energy

    — Technology gained from imaging X-rays is now used to monitor fusion — where two atomic nuclei combine to form a heavier nucleus — that may prove to be our answer for clean energy.

    Medicine

    Magnetic resonance imaging utilizes aperture synthesis – first an astronomical technique and now a medical technique.

    Astronomy struggles to see increasingly faint objects; Medicine struggles to see things obscured within the human body.

    — Aperture synthesis — the process of combining data from multiple telescopes to produce a single image seemingly created from a telescope the size of the entire collection — first developed by a radio astronomer has been used for multiple medical imaging tools, including CAT scanners and MRIs.

    — Building space-based telescopes requires an extremely clean environment in order to avoid dust particles from obscuring the mirrors or instruments. Similar methods and instruments are now used in hospitals and pharmaceutical labs.

    International Collaboration

    — Collaboration also inspires competition. The Space Race — a competition between the Soviet Union and the United States for supremacy in space exploration — landed Neil Armstrong, Michael Collins and Buzz Aldrin on the moon.

    — Astronomy is a collaborative effort. In 1887 astronomers from around the world pooled their telescope images in order to create the first map of the entire sky. Today, astronomers travel around the globe to attend conferences, learn from one another, and utilize telescopes elsewhere.

    Everyday Life

    — Airports utilize advances in technology designed for astronomy. X-ray observatory technology is used in X-ray luggage belts. A gas chromatograph — an instrument designed for a Mars mission — is used to analyze luggage for explosives.

    — Stephen Hawking’s “A Brief History of Time” has sold over 10 million copies. Carl Sagan’s television series “Cosmos: A Personal Voyage” has been watched in over 60 countries.

    Humankind

    “Perhaps the most important reason to study astronomy is that astronomy seeks to satisfy our fundamental curiosity about the world we live in, and answer the ‘big’ questions,” Dr. Rosenberg told Universe Today. “How was the universe created? Where did we come from? Are there other intelligent life forms?”

    Every advance in astronomy moves society closer to being able to answer these questions. With advanced technology — increasingly complex CCDs and larger ground- and space-based telescopes — we have peered into the distant, early universe, we have searched for habitable worlds, and we have come to the conclusion that we, ourselves, are stardust.

    “Astronomy constantly reminds people of two seemingly contradictory things. First that the universe is infinite and we are of but the tiniest fraction of importance. And Second that life is rare and precious. A home as beautiful and unique as earth does not come often. We must protect it.”

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...n4LABg&usg=AFQjCNGgVKRSvXrAj45tg7TmPkp03EF9Nw
     
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