If God is real, how would you know?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Jan Ardena, Apr 8, 2020.

  1. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,419
    If God is real, how would you know?
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,904
    Dawinism wouldn't work as well as it does for starters.

    I don't know Jan how would you know?

    More importantly how could you select from the list of invented Gods ...

    Maybe we would see him dragging the Sun across the sky?

    I really don't think we need worry if he was real he would think of something.

    Alex
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,419
    That can work under any circumstances you care to assign it to, as it is amazingly flexible.
    I suppose you could start with the definition of God. Then take it from there.
    There would be no need, if you comprehend the definition of God.
    Or turning hippos into whales.
    Best learn how to discriminate between truth and pictures.
    You’re right, we needn’t worry.
    But what do you think He would think of, if He was real (as you put it)?
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,904
    How should l know? Why should I care? Ask your pastor.
    Alex
     
  8. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,419
    He said it’s best to ask the person who raised the point.
     
  9. teroko Registered Member

    Messages:
    29
    Pure abstract rationalism could show God is for real.
    For me, the existence of the Universe's Physics Laws cannot be explained without a God developing them...
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2020
  10. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,904
    The floor is yours I will get my popcorn.
    Alex
     
    Curious layman likes this.
  11. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,904
    A side stepping pastor why can't he answer?
    Alex
     
  12. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,419
    I tend to agree.
    It is as close to mathematical impossibility as you can get, for it to have picked itself up by its own bootstraps.
     
  13. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,419
    Eventually everything, that has material properties have to run down. That is characteristic of matter. Are we purely material beings? That’s the question we must focus on.
    Whatever conclusion we arrive at, marks our intention.
     
  14. pluto2 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,012
    God definitely isn't real in my opinion.

    Otherwise this world would not be so crazy, sad and painful.

    If God were real then humans could actually travel to other galaxies (or to other universes) and live there happily ever after.

    All the evidence shows that this world is way too crazy, violent and cruel for there to be a loving God of any kind in my opinion.

    There will be no need for so many people to commit suicide if there was a loving God because God would make everyone's dreams come true and everyone would be very happy and very healthy.
     
  15. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,787
    Care to provide proof of this mathematical impoosibility? I mean, I assume you can rationally explain why no other option is possible? Or it is just your personal incredulity supporting your claim?
     
  16. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    34,574
    I'd see evidence of it, I suppose.

    You think you know that God is real. Speak from your own experience, Jan. How do you know God is real? Tell us, then we can compare notes.

    A definition can't prove that something is real.

    If I say "I define Nurk the Great to be the Supreme Queen of Unicorns, blessed with the power to make grass grow!" that doesn't get me started on a path to proving that Nurk is real. I can't know that Nurk is real from the definition. I can't even know that Nurk is real if I happen to find some growing grass.

    Defining something at best makes the defined concept real, but there's no reason the concept must correspond to anything that actually exists.

    Minas Tirith is defined to be the great capital city of Gondor. Does that make Minas Tirith real, or Gondor, other than as concepts in your head?

    Ooh! Ooh! Ooh! Have I got a thread for you!
     
  17. Yazata Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,370
    I don't know. It's a good question.

    A grand cosmic light-show wouldn't suffice. The movie Independence Day illustrated how not every awesome appearance in the sky constitutes an object suitable for religious worship.

    Miracles don't suffice either. All we can perceive is that something currently inexplicable happened. A being able to work miracles may be a god (or God) or may just be a space alien/time traveller with unknown technology/powers.

    Perhaps the best I can think of is this: If we define 'God' as whatever the ultimate explanation for reality itself is, if we accept that existence exists and if we adopt the Principle of Sufficient Reason, then the existence of God can be logically deduced. (Of course the Principle of Sufficient Reason can be doubted.) So arguably (but very controversially) the existence of this minimal sort of 'God' can be known by logical inference.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_sufficient_reason

    But the problem still remains that all that this process of Natural Theology really delivers up is the unknown something(s) that are hypothesized to perform certain metaphysical functions.

    We still don't know whether that has anything to do with the deities worshipped in the various religions. (I would guess not.) Nor do we know whether it would be a suitable object for religious devotion.

    The underlying problem seems to me that God needs to be Divine, God needs to be Holy. And I know of no way to determine that.
     
  18. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,733
    I think when it comes to spirituality/faith/religion etc., it can be that a believer or follower of a belief system knows or feels something to be true, but that’s different than being able to prove it to others. But, they may find peace in what they’ve found to be true for their life.
     
  19. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,430
    That would be working in reverse, we need to have evidence of God before God can be defined. If we don't know God is real, how can we define God? Makes no sense.
     
  20. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,430
    That's an argument from ignorance and incredulity.
     
  21. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,419
    I read it somewhere. When I come across it again I’ll give you a link.
     
  22. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,419
    If that were the case, then the feeling can change according to circumstance.
    A lot of atheists once felt they believed in God, only to realise they don’t.
     
  23. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,733
    If you know something to be true, what would change for you to no longer believe it to be true?
     

Share This Page