George Floyd trial,could you make a case for the defendant not being guilty of the charges?

[billvon]

I’m watching this trial. Your bias is incredible. We get it, you think Floyd caused his own death and Chauvin is innocent.

Yep. Funny, in a post above you said "The victim died, and he's not on trial" and he replied "who said otherwise?"

He then added "You ignoring all that . . is dishonest." "your obviously ignorant opinions" "you're not informed" "You're either lying or ignorant" "dishonest, uninformed racist" "hypocrite."

So apparently - YOU are on trial here Wegs!

 

[Seattle]

Yes, it could. Brain damage begins after 4 minutes if the person is unable to breathe. Death usually happens after six. That's reality.

Looks like you are getting a lot of use out of your Facebook medical degree. It's so sad that the coroner, and the other doctors who examined him, don't know as much as you do about the cause of death.

I don't think anyone is arguing that death occurs 6 minutes after oxygen has been cut off. The argument is that oxygen wasn't cut off.

 

[Seattle]

Yep. Funny, in a post above you said "The victim died, and he's not on trial" and he replied "who said otherwise?"

He then added "You ignoring all that . . is dishonest." "your obviously ignorant opinions" "you're not informed" "You're either lying or ignorant" "dishonest, uninformed racist" "hypocrite."

So apparently - YOU are on trial here Wegs!

Be honest, you are inflaming the situation just as much as he is (and he is).

 

[wegs]

Yep. Funny, in a post above you said "The victim died, and he's not on trial" and he replied "who said otherwise?"

He then added "You ignoring all that . . is dishonest." "your obviously ignorant opinions" "you're not informed" "You're either lying or ignorant" "dishonest, uninformed racist" "hypocrite."

So apparently - YOU are on trial here Wegs!

lmao!

 

[wegs]

Once someone starts name-calling in a discussion, I just ignore everything else they have to say/post. If you stop doing that Vociferous, it would entice me to answer your specific comments.

Anyway...

Something I’ve been reading about is why is Eric Nelson, Chauvin’s attorney, arguing this case...alone? Other defense attorneys feeling he’s getting tired because he’s not getting a break. He has an assistant with him, but you’d think a fleet of lawyers would be present.

 

[Seattle]

Once someone starts name-calling in a discussion, I just ignore everything else they have to say/post. If you stop doing that Vociferous, it would entice me to answer your specific comments.

Anyway...

Something I’ve been reading about is why is Eric Nelson, Chauvin’s attorney, arguing this case...alone? Other defense attorneys feeling he’s getting tired because he’s not getting a break. He has an assistant with him, but you’d think a fleet of lawyers would be present.

Why? Is this likely to be a money maker for the firm?

 

[Vociferous]

I’m not “in the bag,” for the prosecution. I’m listening to both sides and drawing my own conclusions. I’m not seeing how a jury could acquit based on the evidence so far. It comes down to what a reasonable person thinks - is it reasonable to believe that had Chauvin not acted as he did (knee on neck etc) would Floyd have died where and when he did? No, imo. It is reasonable to think that Chauvin was a contributor to Floyd’s death at the very least and possibly was the sole cause - based on the evidence that has been presented so far, in my opinion.

Floyd’s character isn’t on trial here.

Duped by, in the bag for, doesn't really make a difference. It comes down to the law and the facts, not what someone who admitted to not even knowing everything that happened believes is reasonable.

Who argued about Floyd's character? I've only argued the objective facts of the whole encounter.

Yes, it could. Brain damage begins after 4 minutes if the person is unable to breathe. Death usually happens after six. That's reality.

Looks like you are getting a lot of use out of your Facebook medical degree. It's so sad that the coroner, and the other doctors who examined him, don't know as much as you do about the cause of death.

Medical examiner found no injury to Floyd's airway, Fentanyl overdose (three time the lethal dose) causes compromised lung function, and the video I posted demonstrates that restraint does not constrict breathing.

Why be rude? It doesn't add to the persuasiveness of your points.

There is no persuading these people. They could go do a Google search just as easily as I can, but they are either too lazy or intellectually dishonest to even try. They believe the prosecution almost solely because they've been primed by the media with selective facts and dishonest framing.

But why is it not rude for wegs to call me biased when she's obviously unaware of the whole 30 minute body cam footage?

Once someone starts name-calling in a discussion, I just ignore everything else they have to say/post. If you stop doing that Vociferous, it would entice me to answer your specific comments.

You didn't answer my questions earlier, so why on earth would I believe you now? You've also responded in kind, calling me biased. Again, you're a hypocrite, so there's no reason to believe that you'll ever answer any difficult questions. You're just playing victim as an excuse. I guess that usually works for you.

 

[Seattle]

There is no persuading these people. They could go do a Google search just as easily as I can, but they are either too lazy or intellectually dishonest to even try. They believe the prosecution almost solely because they've been primed by the media with selective facts and dishonest framing.

But why is it not rude for wegs to call me biased when she's obviously unaware of the whole 30 minute body cam footage?

If you don't wish to persuade "these people" then why even post?

Calling you "biased" might be judgmental but it wasn't done in such a way that I would consider it to be rude.

You make some valid points. They are less effective when you are unnecessarily rude about it.

 

[wegs]

Why? Is this likely to be a money maker for the firm?

It’s just been commented by other defense attorneys that it’s tough to handle a case such as this on your own, so some are curious why he’s going this alone. An interesting side note, I guess.

Vociferous - I’m not swayed by the media. Again, I’m following the trial when I’m able and drawing my own conclusions by the evidence presented.

 

[Vociferous]

If you don't wish to persuade "these people" then why even post?

Calling you "biased" might be judgmental but it wasn't done in such a way that I would consider it to be rude.

You make some valid points. They are less effective when you are unnecessarily rude about it.

I'm just honest about the intransigence of most people. Does that mean I shouldn't express my own opinion or even the facts?
If how often people change their minds is the sole justification for posting, most people shouldn't be posting.

Vociferous - I’m not swayed by the media. Again, I’m following the trial when I’m able and drawing my own conclusions by the evidence presented.

Keep telling yourself that, while being surprised about facts in the case and likely the verdict too.

 

[billvon]

Medical examiner found no injury to Floyd's airway

Correct. He died from cardiopulmonary failure due to not being able to breathe. No one claimed his throat was slit or his windpipe was crushed.

Fentanyl overdose (three time the lethal dose) causes compromised lung function

Where did you get your medical degree, again? Facebook?

 

[wegs]

Keep telling yourself that, while being surprised about facts in the case and likely the verdict too.

I would be surprised by an acquittal because the evidence isn’t pointing in that direction. The media by the way, is reporting on the evidence and witness testimony coming out in the trial. Thankfully, it’s being aired on public tv so we don’t have to guess if there’s media bias.

 

[Michael 345]

Yes, it could. Brain damage begins after 4 minutes if the person is unable to breathe. Death usually happens after six. That's reality.

unable - upgrade that to stops

Death usually happens after six. - Ya brain dead

I am still extremely surprised if as been put in this thread prosecution going for asphyxia cause of death O² blood levels and / or ECG readings on arrival

One doctor remarked Fentanyl did not affect breathing

Found this so I would expect defence will argue different

My highlight

Fentanyl works by binding to the body's opioid receptors, which are found in areas of the brain that control pain and emotions. Its effects include extreme happiness, drowsiness, nausea, confusion, constipation, sedation, tolerance, addiction, respiratory depression and arrest, unconsciousness, coma, and death.

From
https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/fentanyl#:~:text=has been added.-,Fentanyl works by binding to the body's opioid receptors, which,unconsciousness, coma, and death.

 

[sculptor]

Did Dr. Daniel Isenschmid, conduct the toxicology tests , the result of which which he testified to?

 

[Vociferous]

Correct. He died from cardiopulmonary failure due to not being able to breathe. No one claimed his throat was slit or his windpipe was crushed.

You're right, I didn't claimed either.

Fentanyl overdose (three time the lethal dose) causes compromised lung function

Where did you get your medical degree, again? Facebook?

Aw, too hard for you to Google the effects of fentanyl overdose?

I would be surprised by an acquittal because the evidence isn’t pointing in that direction. The media by the way, is reporting on the evidence and witness testimony coming out in the trial. Thankfully, it’s being aired on public tv so we don’t have to guess if there’s media bias.

It's precious that you actually believe the media is reporting everything.

 

[wegs]

I wonder how (if) this will change things, this far along in the trial?

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/na...0210406-6stmixfezbaqjcswdnep6nncr4-story.html

 

[Seattle]

I think it will be either 2nd degree manslaughter or acquittal. If he takes the stand (I don't think he will) I think that will mean that they don't think their defense is working and that it's worth the risk to put him on the stand.

How long has the trial being going on and how much longer is it expected to go?

 

[wegs]

I think it will be either 2nd degree manslaughter or acquittal. If he takes the stand (I don't think he will) I think that will mean that they don't think their defense is working and that it's worth the risk to put him on the stand.

How long has the trial being going on and how much longer is it expected to go?

I think it goes for two more weeks.

 

[Vociferous]

Just facts:
1. Floyd resisted repeated orders to show his hands, prompting the officer to draw his gun for fear of him reaching for a weapon.
2. Floyd resisted repeated orders to exit the vehicle, prompting the officer to yank him out.
3. Floyd resisted being handcuffed, requiring another officer's assistance to cuff him.
4. Floyd resisted being put into the police car, claiming to be claustrophobic.
5. Police promised to turn on the AC, roll down the windows, and even stay with Floyd, trying to ease his supposed claustrophobia.
6. Floyd claimed he couldn't breathe as soon as they attempted to get him into the car.
7. Floyd continued resisting, requiring Chauvin to try pulling him into the car from the other side.
8. Floyd managed to push out the other side, asking to be laid on the ground.
9. Police restrain him, due to his repeated resistance.
10. The MPD police chief and MPD use-of-force trainer both testified that Chauvin's knee was actually on Floyd's back or shoulder blades, as seen from the better angle of a body cam, instead of a bystander video.
11. Ambulance was called one minute after Floyd was restrained on the ground, well before he became unresponsive.
12. MPD medical support coordinator/EMT testified that police can only provide medical aid when "the scene is safe", that an officer could mistake ineffective breathing for effective, that CPR is not given in an unsafe environment, and that EMT do a "load'n go" (do not provide aid/evaluation at the scene) because of hostile or volatile bystanders.
13. Crowd was hostile, threatening ("I swear I'll slap the f*** out of both of you."), and one man was seen being held back by another.
14. EMTs arrive and do a load'n go.
15. Floyd was found to have had both methamphetamine and fentanyl (three times the lethal dose) in his system, serious heart disease with 75-90% blockage of key arteries (sufficient to cause death), had overdosed twice recently, and tested positive for Covid.

 

[billvon]

You're right, I didn't claimed either.

Great! So we can put to bed the silly claim that since there was no injury to his airway, he was not suffocated.

Aw, too hard for you to Google the effects of fentanyl overdose?

Nope. I don't need to. I can read the reports of the doctors who actually examined the body. Their expert opinion trumps your Facebook medical experience - no matter how much that hurts your feelings.