George Floyd trial,could you make a case for the defendant not being guilty of the charges?

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by Seattle, Mar 30, 2021.

  1. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Yep. Funny, in a post above you said "The victim died, and he's not on trial" and he replied "who said otherwise?"

    He then added "You ignoring all that . . is dishonest." "your obviously ignorant opinions" "you're not informed" "You're either lying or ignorant" "dishonest, uninformed racist" "hypocrite."

    So apparently - YOU are on trial here Wegs!
     
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  3. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    I don't think anyone is arguing that death occurs 6 minutes after oxygen has been cut off. The argument is that oxygen wasn't cut off.
     
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  5. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    Be honest, you are inflaming the situation just as much as he is (and he is).
     
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  7. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    lmao!
     
  8. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Once someone starts name-calling in a discussion, I just ignore everything else they have to say/post. If you stop doing that Vociferous, it would entice me to answer your specific comments.

    Anyway...

    Something I’ve been reading about is why is Eric Nelson, Chauvin’s attorney, arguing this case...alone? Other defense attorneys feeling he’s getting tired because he’s not getting a break. He has an assistant with him, but you’d think a fleet of lawyers would be present.
     
  9. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    Why? Is this likely to be a money maker for the firm?

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  10. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    Duped by, in the bag for, doesn't really make a difference. It comes down to the law and the facts, not what someone who admitted to not even knowing everything that happened believes is reasonable.

    Who argued about Floyd's character? I've only argued the objective facts of the whole encounter.

    Medical examiner found no injury to Floyd's airway, Fentanyl overdose (three time the lethal dose) causes compromised lung function, and the video I posted demonstrates that restraint does not constrict breathing.

    There is no persuading these people. They could go do a Google search just as easily as I can, but they are either too lazy or intellectually dishonest to even try. They believe the prosecution almost solely because they've been primed by the media with selective facts and dishonest framing.

    But why is it not rude for wegs to call me biased when she's obviously unaware of the whole 30 minute body cam footage?

    You didn't answer my questions earlier, so why on earth would I believe you now? You've also responded in kind, calling me biased. Again, you're a hypocrite, so there's no reason to believe that you'll ever answer any difficult questions. You're just playing victim as an excuse. I guess that usually works for you.
     
  11. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    If you don't wish to persuade "these people" then why even post?

    Calling you "biased" might be judgmental but it wasn't done in such a way that I would consider it to be rude.

    You make some valid points. They are less effective when you are unnecessarily rude about it.
     
  12. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    It’s just been commented by other defense attorneys that it’s tough to handle a case such as this on your own, so some are curious why he’s going this alone. An interesting side note, I guess.

    Vociferous - I’m not swayed by the media. Again, I’m following the trial when I’m able and drawing my own conclusions by the evidence presented.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021
  13. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    I'm just honest about the intransigence of most people. Does that mean I shouldn't express my own opinion or even the facts?
    If how often people change their minds is the sole justification for posting, most people shouldn't be posting.

    Keep telling yourself that, while being surprised about facts in the case and likely the verdict too.
     
  14. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    19,474
    Correct. He died from cardiopulmonary failure due to not being able to breathe. No one claimed his throat was slit or his windpipe was crushed.
    Where did you get your medical degree, again? Facebook?
     
  15. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    I would be surprised by an acquittal because the evidence isn’t pointing in that direction. The media by the way, is reporting on the evidence and witness testimony coming out in the trial. Thankfully, it’s being aired on public tv so we don’t have to guess if there’s media bias.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021
  16. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 71 years old Valued Senior Member

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    unable - upgrade that to stops

    Death usually happens after six. - Ya brain dead

    I am still extremely surprised if as been put in this thread prosecution going for asphyxia cause of death O² blood levels and / or ECG readings on arrival

    One doctor remarked Fentanyl did not affect breathing

    Found this so I would expect defence will argue different

    My highlight

    Fentanyl works by binding to the body's opioid receptors, which are found in areas of the brain that control pain and emotions. Its effects include extreme happiness, drowsiness, nausea, confusion, constipation, sedation, tolerance, addiction, respiratory depression and arrest, unconsciousness, coma, and death.

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    From
    https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/fentanyl#:~:text=has been added.-,Fentanyl works by binding to the body's opioid receptors, which,unconsciousness, coma, and death.

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    Last edited: Apr 9, 2021
  17. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    Did Dr. Daniel Isenschmid, conduct the toxicology tests , the result of which which he testified to?
     
  18. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    You're right, I didn't claimed either.

    Aw, too hard for you to Google the effects of fentanyl overdose?

    It's precious that you actually believe the media is reporting everything.
     
  19. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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  20. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    I think it will be either 2nd degree manslaughter or acquittal. If he takes the stand (I don't think he will) I think that will mean that they don't think their defense is working and that it's worth the risk to put him on the stand.

    How long has the trial being going on and how much longer is it expected to go?
     
  21. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    I think it goes for two more weeks.
     
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  22. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    Just facts:
    1. Floyd resisted repeated orders to show his hands, prompting the officer to draw his gun for fear of him reaching for a weapon.
    2. Floyd resisted repeated orders to exit the vehicle, prompting the officer to yank him out.
    3. Floyd resisted being handcuffed, requiring another officer's assistance to cuff him.
    4. Floyd resisted being put into the police car, claiming to be claustrophobic.
    5. Police promised to turn on the AC, roll down the windows, and even stay with Floyd, trying to ease his supposed claustrophobia.
    6. Floyd claimed he couldn't breathe as soon as they attempted to get him into the car.
    7. Floyd continued resisting, requiring Chauvin to try pulling him into the car from the other side.
    8. Floyd managed to push out the other side, asking to be laid on the ground.
    9. Police restrain him, due to his repeated resistance.
    10. The MPD police chief and MPD use-of-force trainer both testified that Chauvin's knee was actually on Floyd's back or shoulder blades, as seen from the better angle of a body cam, instead of a bystander video.
    11. Ambulance was called one minute after Floyd was restrained on the ground, well before he became unresponsive.
    12. MPD medical support coordinator/EMT testified that police can only provide medical aid when "the scene is safe", that an officer could mistake ineffective breathing for effective, that CPR is not given in an unsafe environment, and that EMT do a "load'n go" (do not provide aid/evaluation at the scene) because of hostile or volatile bystanders.
    13. Crowd was hostile, threatening ("I swear I'll slap the f*** out of both of you."), and one man was seen being held back by another.
    14. EMTs arrive and do a load'n go.
    15. Floyd was found to have had both methamphetamine and fentanyl (three times the lethal dose) in his system, serious heart disease with 75-90% blockage of key arteries (sufficient to cause death), had overdosed twice recently, and tested positive for Covid.
     
  23. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    19,474
    Great! So we can put to bed the silly claim that since there was no injury to his airway, he was not suffocated.
    Nope. I don't need to. I can read the reports of the doctors who actually examined the body. Their expert opinion trumps your Facebook medical experience - no matter how much that hurts your feelings.
     

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