Electric cars vs fossil fuel cars

[Luchito]

Aww. Getting jealous because they always leave you in their dust? Can't blame you; that's enough to make anyone feel small. But don't feel bad! Maybe someday you'll be able to afford one.

There are far more gas cars that use hideously ugly, trashy plastic hubcaps than electric cars.

Is it you the one who proudly own an electric car?

OK.

Tell me the price of it, the price you paid taking it out of the store.

Read carefully, this price includes rebates, downpayment and final price before finance. If you want, just can include finance as an extra, that will be OK.

After the price amount, describe what have you received in exchange. This is to say, the car with all the features included.

Do not add or take away features to or from the car.

No need to mention brand name and model, because according to the price and features will be easy to find out anyway, but such information is not needed.

What is needed is the price you paid for the car and what have you received in exchange.

This is in order to check if you really have made a good deal buying it.

After that, we are going to work with what you have, the extras, like time recharging, places for recharging, money spent in electricity, etc.

Insurance will be discussed later on. Be aware that insurance is not always accurate just checking with companies online, because the premium includes the driving record and we are not to discuss your private stuff. From my part my driving record is excellent for decades already, but even so, if this discussion includes it, we will find a way to check about insurance in a certain area, and under same circumstances of drivers of electric and gas cars. This is because insurance premiun also considers the area of the address of the driver besides the car year and model and driver records. So, insurance discussion might be left to the end in order to dedicate more time with patience.

By now, how much you have paid for your electric car and what have you received.

 

[billvon]

Tell me the price of it, the price you paid taking it out of the store.

Sure. One (my wife's) was $78K. Mine was $28K.

 

[Luchito]

Sure. One (my wife's) was $78K. Mine was $28K.

Which one is the new one, and what features were included.

 

[Write4U]

And you can buy an old car with a bad engine for 2,000 and spend 8,000 to convert it into an electric car.
$10.000 ain't bad to have the latest technology.

 

[Luchito]

And you can buy an old car with a bad engine for 2,000 and spend 8,000 to convert it into an electric car.
$10.000 ain't bad to have the latest technology.

That sounds great.

I bought for the first time in my life a used car about three years ago. It was an emergency because I lost a car in an accident, not my fault just in case.

I paid $1600 for it. A 1999 Buick with 52,000 miles.

I had to replace the struts, about three sensors, a headlight and a front axle to make it pass the safety inspection. Total cost about $2000. Emission inspection was easily passed as well.

The seller thought the car was trash because the scanner showed 40 pending codes. But as soon as I replaced one of the required sensors, more than 10 codes disappeared automatically, and so forth. The car was in mint condition inside and the exterior was also almost brand new because has been in storage inside a garage for decades.

I replaced the whole fluids after three months of use, not much an investment because I love doing all the repairs. The tires were 18 years old ha ha ha ha, and I recently have replaced them.

The car has reached 100,000 miles and keeps working great. Of course gasoline is an issue today thanks to Joe's way to keep the economy... hm hm hm bad Joe... bad Joe... and because carries the famous 3.8l / 6 cylinder engine, the one which last "forever". Replacing its spark plugs have make it to acquire more power than ever. The old spark plugs were without the pointed tip already... I have no idea how the car never gave us issues because that... ha ha ha ha

If one day the engine or the transmission fails, of course I will try the electric engine switch. Such kind of deal sounds as making more sense rather than over spending money in buying electric cars from a dealer. This old Buick has everything that the new cars offer, like back up camera, GPS, and comfort, of course, is the traditional airplane comfort feeling when you drive it.

A guy here in my family has caused three accidents with it, and the front bumper, hood and headlights have been replaced three times as well, parts were acquired from the junk yard, of course. I replaced the air bags once, bought from eBay.

And this is a great advantage when you buy these old cars, you can even replace their computers (PCM) without the need of sophisticated programming but just inserting the key, turning it On and Off about three times after 30 seconds or minutes and the car returns back to normal as usual.

I love this machine, because really is great for driving, even better than the new 2021 car I just bought on January this year.

With a car like this Buick, I think is worthy to install in it the electric engine the day its current one fails, but by now, I love the car as it is, strong, fast, smooth, and I never regret buying it because it cost me $1,600 used but almost new.

And thanks for the tip, I sure will consider such a switch of engines before dumping any of the cars own here at home.

 

[billvon]

Which one is the new one, and what features were included.

The newer one has an 8kwhr battery, a pretty good stereo with XM, and all the usual stuff (lane departure warning, cross traffic warning, parking distance sensors etc)

 

[Write4U]

The car has reached 100,000 miles and keeps working great. Of course gasoline is an issue today thanks to Joe's way to keep the economy... hm hm hm bad Joe... bad Joe..

I'm glad you see benefit in that option.

But I would not blame president Biden for the increasing price of oil and the resulting increase in gasoline prices. He has no control over that, unless he declares martial law and commandeers the U.S. wells. Trump wanted to own the Arabian wells and plunge us into a mortal world war.

Fact is that the world is running out of oil and oil prices will continue to rise as supply dwindles when one by one the current wells begin to fail and new wells are twice as expensive to drill and maintain. Even then the world's supply of oil may be 50 years max..

As long as the world population continues to grow with its attendant increase in energy use, the exponential function will eventually result in exhaustion of limited resources, a fact that most people seem to forget. Oil is a limited resource and it is beginning to show signs of exhaustion. Raising prices is one of the inevitable results.
Can't blame Biden for that.

Biden'-s release of 60 million barrels of oil to stabilize oil prices, is just enough for 3-4 days supply.

How much oil is consumed in the United States?

EIA uses product supplied to represent U.S. petroleum consumption. In 2020, the United States consumed an average of about 18.19 million barrels of petroleum per day.

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=33&t=6#

 

[RainbowSingularity]

my driving record

drivers of electric

electric cars have not been out long enough to develop any real electric car driver accident statistics

price range is probably going to be a better guide

they are priced in 2 different groups
mini(small cars) medium to expensive
medium(normal 4 doors like the tesla) expensive

so the buy in price for the mini will be a feature of the process to invest in looking after it for its cost saving benefits
this means they are far more likely to be careful drivers to begin with

medium (Tesla) buyers
completely different
they probably have more disposable cash & a higher income
so being careful with the car s not as important as the cars image to their self image
personal choice verses need in a personal choice market

imagine it will take 2 to 4 years for the tesla owners to have their children borrow them & crash them to see the accident rates come through in a better statistical value as well as an average seasonal accident rate
for example xmass time & holiday seasons
winter ice etc

usually the biggest cost of insurance is the cost of other vehicle damage
in the usa that includes everyone trying to sue everyone else at any possible chance to make a profit

so the environmental cost of the insurance will be increased because of that increased risk level

that is unrelated to accident rates

when you purchase a new car
you do not need to purchase insurance to fix it
& it is probably a statistical figure that new car owners probably drive more carefully for a set number of years of ownership
maybe 2 maybe 5
but they also probably go through brokers
& those insurance rates are purchased wholesale
so its a lower cot risk bracket to bulk consumer low range high turn over

apples with apples

 

[Luchito]

The newer one has an 8kwhr battery, a pretty good stereo with XM, and all the usual stuff (lane departure warning, cross traffic warning, parking distance sensors etc)

You seem to be very evasive with your response.

Is the newer one the car that cost you 78,000 dollars?

Lets say yes.

78,000 dollars and you have a car with stereo with XM, and the ususal staff, like lane deaperture warning, cross parking warning, parking distance sensor, I might add backup camera, what about GPS? How is the heat/air conditioner vents distributed, like one zone or two zones, perhaps also in the trunk area?

Your description is very vague and I can tell you that a gasoline car, sedan large size, leather seats, and without being luxury, it will cost you around 45,000 dollars.

So, we have a 33,000 dollars difference between both cars, the electric and its similar gasoline fuel car.

Lets go now with gas comsumption. Lets say 100 dollars per week is 5000 dollars a year. So, I have 7 years driving my gasoline car to match your fuel free electric car price. And I am including free oil change by the dealer as their offer for buying the car I bought.

Then, lets give 6 years instead of 7 years, and we have both cars with 100,000 driving miles.

Time to sell our cars in order to buy new ones again.

It happens that the engine and the transmission of the gasoline car will have at least 200,000 miles without great issues and even when the car needs a replacement of one of them, the cost will be no more than $6,000 dollars.

On the other hand, your electric car with 100,000 miles is not much trustable, and will be sold at no more than 20,000 dollars, same price of my car after used with samedriving miles. In my car will be a little less than half price, with your car you will barely will receive a little more than 1/4 of its original value.

Why?

Because the electric cars when are sold new are over priced.

If your car was sold like the gasoline fuel car at 45,000 dollars, then you should be the sure winner. But you are not.

And just in case, 100,000 miles or ten years of use is what is expected for the batteries and base circuit board to last without much issues in your car, and replace them will cost you more than 25,000 dollars. You lose the whole way.

A better choice is buying a used old car and transform it into an electric car, as Write-4U says today is possible.

This issue with electric cars also happens with fueled cars. For example with diesel vehicles. The gasoline car costs less than the same model in diesel in several places. Plus, here in the US the gallon of diesel is little higher than regular gasoline. This is because the "system" doesn't want you to save money with diesel cars. Same as well, the system doesn't want you to save money with electric cars, and the money you evade to pay in fuel, they have managed to include it in the price of the electric car.

In most countries the gallon of diesel is way cheaper than regular gasoline and people save lots of money buying diesel cars and trucks.

The price of electric cars reminds me the first years when recycled toilet paper appeared in the market. The regular toilet paper was 3 dollars the package of four, while the 4 pack recycled toilet paper was 12 dollars.

You have over paid for both of your electric cars, the used one was a great deal because has high driving mileeage, then you will spend lots of money in repairs/replacement in a near time.I can bet you are doing repairs to that car already.

Yes, you say you enjoy both of your cars, but I can easily know that you buying gasoline cars instead, then you should have saved thousands of dollars at the dealer and in the long run, and enjoy the same comfort and safety.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

Lets go now with gas comsumption. Lets say 100 dollars per week is 5000 dollars a year.

you need to reverse factor this figure
it is wildly out

usa fuel (gasoline) is heavily government subsidized

where as electricity comes a lot from coal

if your chargers for your electrics come from home units which have solar wind & battery systems
you can save significant cost to waste ratio

you must factor the govt subsidy

the real cost of 1 week is likely to be loser to 150 i would guess... roughly!

most electric re-charging will be coal fired
which is very sad
but there is no alternative yet

shopping malls should all install solar on their roofs for re-charging for free
also clubs etc ... (assuming you can protect them from vandals & pro coal saboteurs)

usa has a lot of dirty oil in the ground
which has been sold & re purchased at ridiculously high prices in profiteering hedging nonsense

so wells are getting closed down because they are too expensive to refine at current prices
while some others are closed down to push supply down to adjust prices
while opec fiddles with supply to adjust prices
etc etc
and on it goes
usa has always had one of the highest govt subsidy's for their domestic gasoline prices
they also have the largest engine size average which is massively wasted fuel
but it turns volume to market turning dollars over
while spending govt money as subsidys
etc etc
money go round welfare price .... is it faking ?
not to anyone who looks it up on the net to have a quick read
its there for anyone who is interested and has been for decades

how d you factor cost ?

what do hey pay with ?
wages
wages that is leaned up on finance ?
the car is financed ?
the cell phone is financed
the house is financed
maybe a holiday & some kids school fees
so there is a cost of finance included in the fuel price value
as a cost to service the cash to fuel purchase

you cant make an easy solution for a complicated problem when your not looking at the full complexity of its issues
you end up loosing in some place like a leak in your boat

in theory
the discussion involves a global directive
of net zero target eventually
so any leaks are not net zero & need to be fueled with input or you sink

& that money HAS to come from somewhere

who does it come from
the employer through taxation back to the oil company trough 4 merchants & maybe 6 different administration fees ?
etc etc

if you could wind all that back to maybe 2 admin fees
you could afford to employ a full time govt worker & still save money (as a cost to dollar ratio to industry turn over)
as a simple example of alternative thinking

ideally you want your teenage/adult child or house hold member to be able to drive your electric car to the mall & plug it in for a few hours for free re-charging as they watch a movie & do some shopping
solar instead of coal

 

[Luchito]

I'm glad you see benefit in that option.

But I would not blame president Biden for the increasing price of oil and the resulting increase in gasoline prices. He has no control over that, unless he declares martial law and commandeers the U.S. wells. Trump wanted to own the Arabian wells and plunge us into a mortal world war.

Fact is that the world is running out of oil and oil prices will continue to rise as supply dwindles when one by one the current wells begin to fail and new wells are twice as expensive to drill and maintain. Even then the world's supply of oil may be 50 years max..

As long as the world population continues to grow with its attendant increase in energy use, the exponential function will eventually result in exhaustion of limited resources, a fact that most people seem to forget. Oil is a limited resource and it is beginning to show signs of exhaustion. Raising prices is one of the inevitable results.
Can't blame Biden for that.

Biden'-s release of 60 million barrels of oil to stabilize oil prices, is just enough for 3-4 days supply.

How much oil is consumed in the United States?

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=33&t=6#

You make good points, but Joe's failure is not solely with gas prices but with everything in general. I used to buy fresh caught salmon at no more than 14 dollars a pound, on sale was 10 dollars a pound. Today is over 20 dollars a pound. This is not a slowly change in a few months but from one day to another. I don't buy pool grown fish, that flsh is more fatter and the flavor taste rare. In my younger years I live 5 blocks from the beack until my twenties, I know some about tasting fish.

About oil.The initiative of president Trump was way more better, specialyy pointing the oil in the Carolines.

Lets be honest about this. The oil from US wells is from regular to low quality, if you didn't know.

This oil is great for diesel and gasoline for cars and buses, for making plastic and other similar products.

On the other hand, the oil from the Middle East is the best, it is good for fuel for war airplanes, war ships, commercial airplanes, you name it.

Then, producing oil from the US wells is enough to supply gasoline for cars in this county for decades and decades without problems. The estimate of the amount of oil in those wells under the mountains at the plane of the Carolines was greater than the oil amount in Saudi Arabia. But again, the quality is the greatest difference between US and Midel East oil wells.

You better ask to yourself who is the interested party to promote electric cars?

The answer is very simple, the European countries. They are the leaders making initiatives to abandon gasoline fuel cars simply because Europe doesn't have oil wells. That's it.

When ISIS took control of oil weels and started to sell it, the "anonymous" buyers of that oil were the European countries ha ha ha ha...

Russia, China, US with president Trump and Asian and even African countries were in disagreement, but may countries producers of oil were forced to sign in favor of changing to a new approach like the electric cars.

I know oil will expire someday, but no one can have the date and neither any appoximate estimate because such technology doesn't exist. On the contrary, oil and natural gas have been found in many other areas, so there is more oil and gas to exploit in the world.

My rejection to electric cars is not much about the car itself but the abuse of over pricing them. The new technology is very good but is not the 8th marvel of the world.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

Trump wanted to own the Arabian wells and plunge us into a mortal world war.

i read his comment as something different

but i may have miss read it

i thought he said
since they went in & spent those billions
why did they not extract oil to help pay for it

he said "take the oil" why didnt we just take the oil"

i tend to agree with that as a trade principal
had the usa govt simply extracted oil & paid some funds for it towards their own donations of money to re build their government & infrastructure

oil for internet ?
oil for govt buildings ?
etc etc

slightly different debate to oil grab a nation through imperialism
i feel confident in the united nations position of iraqs invasion of Kuwait needing to be removed as a threat.

i may not agree with all their laws or religion but there is a global picture where oil controls all things

iraq was the middle east super power(no concept of what we in the west[or modern middle eastern people] call human rights)
only Israel stood a chance to slow them down should they decide to move in any direction

the genocide of thousands of years of history of the marsh arrabs was inexcusable in a modern world

tackling usa's oil dependence is an uphill hard slog for Joe or anyone else who seeks to build a better path

it has to be done
everyone knows it
its just a matter of how

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsh_Arabs

https://www.newscientist.com/articl...dea-to-force-the-marsh-arabs-from-their-home/

 

[Write4U]

This is not a slowly change in a few months but from one day to another.

Right so how is Biden responsible for that?

About oil. The initiative of president Trump was way more better, specialyy pointing the oil in the Carolines.

You're not reading close enough. World Oil will be gone in 50 Years max. I don know how old you are, but if you are in your twenties you may witness the end of oil as a commodity.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

50 Years max

at current use ?
not factoring the moving of india china & africa into current technological status of average western technology level

imagine that

 

[Write4U]

at current use ?
not factoring the moving of india china & africa into current technological status of average western technology level

Yes, plus a near doubling of the world population.

imagine that

I am and if we do not have sufficient replacement energy resources, it may spell disaster for the developed countries whose national economies rest on availability of energy.

Look at the immediate impact of the OPEC increase in oil price. That is why I concluded that Biden is not in any way responsible for the sudden increase in prices across the board.

Oil prices hit a seven-year high as OPEC and its allies stick with a modest increase.

Oil prices hit their highest levels since 2014 as officials from OPEC, Russia and other oil producers decided on Monday to stick with their previous agreement to only gradually add oil to the market. The announcement came despite rising demand for energy as businesses around the world resumed operations.

The 23-member group, known as OPEC Plus, said in a terse news release that it would raise production by a modest 400,000 barrels a day in November, less than 0.5 percent of world demand,

under a deal reached in July.

In effect, the group shrugged off political and commercial pressure to ramp up

oil production to ease a tightening market.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/04/business/opec-meeting-oil-production.html

 

[Luchito]

you need to reverse factor this figure
it is wildly out

usa fuel (gasoline) is heavily government subsidized

where as electricity comes a lot from coal

if your chargers for your electrics come from home units which have solar wind & battery systems
you can save significant cost to waste ratio

you must factor the govt subsidy

the real cost of 1 week is likely to be loser to 150 i would guess... roughly!

most electric re-charging will be coal fired
which is very sad
but there is no alternative yet

shopping malls should all install solar on their roofs for re-charging for free
also clubs etc ... (assuming you can protect them from vandals & pro coal saboteurs)

usa has a lot of dirty oil in the ground
which has been sold & re purchased at ridiculously high prices in profiteering hedging nonsense

so wells are getting closed down because they are too expensive to refine at current prices
while some others are closed down to push supply down to adjust prices
while opec fiddles with supply to adjust prices
etc etc
and on it goes
usa has always had one of the highest govt subsidy's for their domestic gasoline prices
they also have the largest engine size average which is massively wasted fuel
but it turns volume to market turning dollars over
while spending govt money as subsidys
etc etc
money go round welfare price .... is it faking ?
not to anyone who looks it up on the net to have a quick read
its there for anyone who is interested and has been for decades

how d you factor cost ?

what do hey pay with ?
wages
wages that is leaned up on finance ?
the car is financed ?
the cell phone is financed
the house is financed
maybe a holiday & some kids school fees
so there is a cost of finance included in the fuel price value
as a cost to service the cash to fuel purchase

you cant make an easy solution for a complicated problem when your not looking at the full complexity of its issues
you end up loosing in some place like a leak in your boat

in theory
the discussion involves a global directive
of net zero target eventually
so any leaks are not net zero & need to be fueled with input or you sink

& that money HAS to come from somewhere

who does it come from
the employer through taxation back to the oil company trough 4 merchants & maybe 6 different administration fees ?
etc etc

if you could wind all that back to maybe 2 admin fees
you could afford to employ a full time govt worker & still save money (as a cost to dollar ratio to industry turn over)
as a simple example of alternative thinking

ideally you want your teenage/adult child or house hold member to be able to drive your electric car to the mall & plug it in for a few hours for free re-charging as they watch a movie & do some shopping
solar instead of coal

I like those inputs, because you are expanding temporarily the discussion to a greater level where government subsidy intervenes in the equation and you ended giving solutions which might be possible if someone takes the initiative of implanting them.

I like the pratical way you make more affrordable the recharging the car in a mall instead of home, and the solar pannels are a plus to be the suppliers of the required energy.

Then lets go to those points of yours to analize them a little more.

I like driving my bicycle and one day I passed by thru a street where the owner of a house had installed those solar pannels. After having a short conversation with the nice lady, I understood that she make a contract with the company to have those pannels for free at exchange of a monthly fee of 100 dollars a month. She told me that she works at home doing computer work, no paper work but writing forms and similar all day long. The pannels supply for electricity comsumption for day time only because her roof wasn't big enough to install more of them. At night, when more power was needed, automatically the electricity was switched to AC power coming from the street pole.

She was p[aying a rough 1,400 dolars in electric bills, included the rebate by the electric company for her use of solar pannels at home.

My house is the same size of her house, and by fact computers don't pull too much power. And my electric bills are different, higher in Summer because the air conditioner and low in winter because my gas heat system. Same as with her case. But I pay no more than 700 dollars electric per year. I have two refrigerators, air conditioner, TV in each room, even kitchen, big screen TVs, usual toaster, computers, charging devices for varios phones, but led bulbs and use of electric tools when doing my hobbies.

Her deal waas a very bad deal, however Ilearned that owning those solar pannels is not the end of the story but their maintenance, which was included in the contract.

So, take note of this example to be applied on the roofs fo the mall. Not only the solar pannels but the fee for the installer company plus maintenance.

In this case, who will pay for such "free" electric power? Tesla? I don't think so. It must be an agreement between Tesla or the malls with the government for a kind of subsidy. I am witnessing stores installing electric chargers in their parking spaces, this is to attract drivers with electric acrs who will stay longer and buying more at the store(s). such is a good idea. The bad result is the removal or changing of place of two or more handicap spaces.

Well, no expectations of win win for everybody.

Where subsidies come from? well, taxing to someone.

I was with a friend who lives in a city neighbor with mine. We went to a city meeting. One city council was exposing the money that thru his initiatives the city has saved. Here and there he showed with graphics the huge amounts of money that the city has evaded to pay for such and such services and projects.

You know me already, I felt I must ask a question, and I did it. Pretending to be a resident of that city I asked him if that money the city has saved will be reflected in lower tax for people, and he told me he will reach that point at the end. Right after he ended explaining his graphics, he say thank you and disappeared.

And yes, money must come from somehwere as you say, and all the new fade in our societies like recycling, solar pannels, electric cars and more, those are subsided by the government.

Recycling companies get rich because besides of subsidies, they receive the full amount of money for those recycling goods. I remember when 30 years ago I myself filled up a van with Sunday's newspapers from senior buildings, because they only took the coupons section and leaved the rest, and I made good money selling full vans of them to the recycling center. I sold them even cardboard, aluiminium cans from two bars who's owners were friends of mine, and suddenly big companies are sucking for free the same recycling thanks to street cans provided by cities so neighbors will deposit their recycling goods.

You see, the regular Joe the plumber is always the loser, the big dudes take it all.

If you think electric cars are made to "save the world", well, let me tell you nobody is saving to others but someones are making big profit with such propaganda. If they were to help you, then their cars should cost less than half the price asked today.

The system is coordinated in a way to do things without being noticed. The current alarm against a virus that has mutated to become less dangerous than ever, is made to distract people so they won't realize the price of bread, cars, wood, tools and more are today way higher than yesterday night.

Same propaganda is used to promote electric car sales. something fishy they are making right now while you are driving those expensive machines.

 

[billvon]

You seem to be very evasive with your response.

Is the newer one the car that cost you 78,000 dollars?

No, it's the one that cost $28K.

78,000 dollars and you have a car with stereo with XM, and the ususal staff, like lane deaperture warning, cross parking warning, parking distance sensor, I might add backup camera, what about GPS?

Yes to all of that.

Your description is very vague and I can tell you that a gasoline car, sedan large size, leather seats, and without being luxury, it will cost you around 45,000 dollars.

OK. So minus the leather seats mine was $17,000 cheaper.

Lets go now with gas comsumption. Lets say 100 dollars per week is 5000 dollars a year. So, I have 7 years driving my gasoline car to match your fuel free electric car price.

Nope. I start off $17K cheaper and pay nothing. You keep paying and paying and paying.

It happens that the engine and the transmission of the gasoline car will have at least 200,000 miles without great issues and even when the car needs a replacement of one of them, the cost will be no more than $6,000 dollars.

Mine doesn't even have a transmission - so no need to replace it. These cars regularly hit 300,000 miles with no major engine/drivetrain problems.

On the other hand, your electric car with 100,000 miles is not much trustable

It's more trustable than yours, given that you feel it will fail far before mine. Why did you spend more for a less reliable car?

And just in case, 100,000 miles or ten years of use is what is expected for the batteries and base circuit board

You keep saying "base circuit board." You are making that up. You have no idea what you are talking about.

A better choice is buying a used old car and transform it into an electric car, as Write-4U says today is possible.

Then you'll be spending every weekend working on it. A friend of mine did that for a Kewet - a car made in Norway. She had it converted to a modern electrical drive. She had no end of problems in all the places the two systems met - the DC/DC, the accessory power, the parking brake.

You have over paid for both of your electric cars

And yet I paid $17K less than you did! Sorry you overpaid. Don't feel too bad.

 

[Sarkus]

You better ask to yourself who is the interested party to promote electric cars?

If you're only looking at the economics then, to be frank, shame on you. Electrification of cars is NOT about the economics, but about the desire to prevent further climate change. And in that regard, everyone becomes the interested party in the promotion of electric cars.

The answer is very simple, the European countries. They are the leaders making initiatives to abandon gasoline fuel cars simply because Europe doesn't have oil wells. That's it.

Head in the sand much? Do you deny the impact of fossil fuel on climate change? Do you deny that the removal of petrol and diesel cars from our roads will improve not only local health but go toward a greener and more sustainable future?
Sure, the European countries don't have that much oil in comparison, but that means they're also not blinkered or beholden to an industry that is damaging our planet, not lobbied to the same extent by those industries, and are more capable of acting for the greater good rather than the good of the few.

I know oil will expire someday, but no one can have the date and neither any appoximate estimate because such technology doesn't exist. On the contrary, oil and natural gas have been found in many other areas, so there is more oil and gas to exploit in the world.

You really don't seem to get it, do you. It's not about the economic benefits - although those will probably come in terms of upfront cost, and are already there in terms of ongoing running costs, if not in recharging time. It's about the need to change, on a global scale, from fossil fuels to electric. And that need does currently have an economic cost, especially in the lower value car market.

My rejection to electric cars is not much about the car itself but the abuse of over pricing them. The new technology is very good but is not the 8th marvel of the world.

Over-pricing? You have evidence that electric cars are "over-priced" rather than just costing more (due to nature of the components, etc)? You have evidence of increased profit-margins, perhaps? Or are you just complaining that electric cars cost more to build, therefore are to be rejected, and thereby missing the actual point of the transition to electric?

 

[Luchito]

OK. So minus the leather seats mine was $17,000 cheaper.

With gas fueled cars, leather seats come with a package that goes from 2000 dollars up to maybe 5000 dollars, But it's a package which includes better looking rims and more. I suppose same is with electric cars, when is not only the leather seats but a package with other featuresadded. but 17,000 dollars added is like buying a small but very good brand new Hyundai car.

You make a terrible bad deal adding such package to an electric car. You avoid that package and you can buy your over priced electric car plus a cheap very good gas fueled car. Now well, the Hyundai cars indeed saved lots of gasoline because the technology applied on their engines.

Nope. I start off $17K cheaper and pay nothing. You keep paying and paying and paying.

Electricity is not free, unless you obtained by magic.

Mine doesn't even have a transmission - so no need to replace it. These cars regularly hit 300,000 miles with no major engine/drivetrain problems.

Open the hood and the trunk. You will find nothing but huge storage spaces. The "engine" is a base huge circuit board at the base of the car. And accident in a gas fueled car can damage the rear part of it and the car still can be driven. Same with the side or front if the engine and radiator are not compromised. In case that by chance the car hit the base of the car, the damage might compromise the exhaust pipe.

With the electric car, with an "engine" bumper to bumper, a hit on the back, side or front, or at the base can disable your car and will call for the replacement of the whole "engine", if you didn't know.

It's more trustable than yours, given that you feel it will fail far before mine. Why did you spend more for a less reliable car?

My old 1999 Buick is very reliable, it has passed the test of years -parts exposed to decay- and driving miles.

You keep saying "base circuit board." You are making that up. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Find the shop service manual for your car, you'll see it.

Then you'll be spending every weekend working on it. A friend of mine did that for a Kewet - a car made in Norway. She had it converted to a modern electrical drive. She had no end of problems in all the places the two systems met - the DC/DC, the accessory power, the parking brake.

She is a woman and she might have been victim of a scam. Even you have been a victim when you paid 78,000 dollars for your wife's car. T<he other lady has spent only 10,000 dollars and even with weekly repairs will be years and years to reach the 78,000 dollars of yours. And don't celebrate victory yet, because your car can fail by any reason at any time. The warranty of the car is 300,000 miles, but is not guarantee that never will fail. Warranty only means the dealer will take care of the repairs up to 300,000 miles., not so the car will work in perfect condition that amount of miles.

And yet I paid $17K less than you did! Sorry you overpaid. Don't feel too bad.

Ha ha ha ha... You think you have "saved" 17,000 dollars when such an amount is way over priced. I told you in gas fueled cars same leather seats will be no more than 5,000 dollars extra. Plus the salesman will buy free pizza for you while the paper work is in progress...

 

[Luchito]

If you're only looking at the economics then, to be frank, shame on you. Electrification of cars is NOT about the economics, but about the desire to prevent further climate change. And in that regard, everyone becomes the interested party in the promotion of electric cars.
Head in the sand much? Do you deny the impact of fossil fuel on climate change? Do you deny that the removal of petrol and diesel cars from our roads will improve not only local health but go toward a greener and more sustainable future?

OK. That's it.

Please read this part carefully.

You have been told the ice and snow at the poles is dissapearing. That the cause of global warming is caused by "fossil" fuels comsumption, and etc. etc.

Well, the ice and snow at the poles of planet Mars are also dissapearing. And as far as we know, there is not "fossil" fuel comsumption in that planet.

Plus, I will add something NASA is not telling you. Venus used to have a snow layer at the upper atnosphere, and has been detected by the Mariners and other spacecrafts sent to that planet decades ago. Such layer of snow is also disappearing.

To conclude: the "global warming" on earth is not caused by "fossil" fuel comsumption but by causes as changes in the Sun's behavior, perhaps our solar system is traveling thru a different location with differnt temperature caused by something else, we really can't say, but surely is affecting the whole solar system.

Sure, the European countries don't have that much oil in comparison, but that means they're also not blinkered or beholden to an industry that is damaging our planet, not lobbied to the same extent by those industries, and are more capable of acting for the greater good rather than the good of the few.
You really don't seem to get it, do you. It's not about the economic benefits - although those will probably come in terms of upfront cost, and are already there in terms of ongoing running costs, if not in recharging time. It's about the need to change, on a global scale, from fossil fuels to electric. And that need does currently have an economic cost, especially in the lower value car market.
Over-pricing? You have evidence that electric cars are "over-priced" rather than just costing more (due to nature of the components, etc)? You have evidence of increased profit-margins, perhaps? Or are you just complaining that electric cars cost more to build, therefore are to be rejected, and thereby missing the actual point of the transition to electric?

Look, if I want to pay lots of money for a car, then so be it. If I want to buy the cheaper car in the market, also so be it.

But, when is about comparing the cost and necessity plus the practical -daily use, how easy is to charge them, etc- the gas fueled cars are fine in comparison with electric cars. You see, the electric car might provides an excellent reliability but such is conditioned to not having accidents, as an example. And the accident doesn't have to be the electric car driver's fault, but just an accident, like a sudden path hole in a route that destroys or twist the sway bar or the struts or etc. With the gas fueled car is just replacing the affected parts, with the electric car its "engine" might have been compromised and replacement of it is a must.

Don't ever think the electric car is "perfect" because has lots of risks as any other cars have.

You won't save the planet by driving electric cars, such is a big lie that was told to you by someones.

The changes in our planet can't be controlled just by using electric power from solar pannels, such is lunacies.

I have always state that we can't predict what we can't control, and the current changes in our climate are supposed to happen, nothing stays the same way forever. We just must adapt to the changes, because trying to control our climate is a laughable attempt.

You better think from other angles.

Not so long ago, an earthquake in Chile, by the location of the fault and the impact underground, it caused the angle of the axis of our planet to shift a little bit. The news reported that wasn't a "physical change" and not a big deal, but it was in reality.

Now, you can say that a few inches the axis angle change won't affect anything in a planet with thousands of miles circumference, with such and such density, and more. Well, apparently it does. The whole planet must adapt itself to that insignificant change, and in the process lots of phenomena will happen, and will snow in places where never snowed before, and to compensate that some lake somewhere will get dry, and so forth.

We live in a moving vehicle that is self maintained, and will catch up by itself responding to that pinching in its butt. We, as residents of this planet will pay some consequences, but this is how it is.

Perhaps "fossil" fuel comsumption also increases the changes, but surely is not the cause of them, this is in base of what is observed with planets Mars and Venus.

I applaud your intentions of doing something to stop the harmful effects of climate change, I see you thinking in our current status and future generations as well, but you better get better informed by searching from other sources the real causes of the changes. You have received one side only of the story, it is your duty to look for the others sides and angles that complement the whole scenario.