Does Chaos Theory prove a Mathematically Ordered Universe

[river]

But at bottom, the recourse to dimensionality is an evasive maneuver, not a useful explanation. The ideas of this book proceed from an alternative point of view: that complex, self-organizing systems, while unpredictable on the level of detail, are interestingly predictable on the level of structure. This what differentiates them from simple dynamical systems that are almost entirely unpredictable on the level of structure as well as the level of detail........

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Disagree

Dimensionality is Fundamental to anything Physical Existing in the First place . And without any Physical Thing There is NO mathematics , None .

 

[Write4U]

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Disagree
Dimensionality is Fundamental to anything Physical Existing in the First place . And without any Physical Thing There is NO mathematics , None .

How do you know this?

Dimensions are Patterns! All recurring patterns, abstract or concrete, are mathematical in essence.

Consider this; Time is a mathematical pattern that emerges with "duration" of anything.
It produces measurable incremental relational patterns of duration......

 

[river]

Dimensions are Patterns! All recurring patterns are mathematical in essence.

Consider this; Time itself is a mathematical pattern.

What are Dimensions the Pattern of ?

 

[Write4U]

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If the Universe is only logical in essence , where does logic get its Knowledge From ?

Logic needs no knowledge. It is a self-ordering process in accordance to some simple regulatory imperatives. These imperatives are of a mathematical nature. Hence the self-formation of "patterns".

Without Logic, there is only Chaos.

 

[river]

river said: ↑
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If the Universe is only logical in essence , where does logic get its Knowledge From ?

Logic needs no knowledge. It is a self-ordering process in accordance to some simple regulatory imperatives. These imperatives are of a mathematical nature. Hence the self-formation of "patterns".

Without Logic, there is only Chaos.

So your logic is based on nothing .

 

[Write4U]

What are Dimensions the Pattern of ?

I think you are restricting the definition of "pattern".

If it is not chaotic it is a pattern. Any regularity creates a pattern.

Pattern is an antonym for chaos.


https://thesaurus.plus/related/chaos/pattern#

In short : ALL observable and non-observable regularities form "patterns of a kind".

 

[Write4U]

So your logic is based on nothing .

That's backwards.
Everything is based on Logic. Even Chaos contains logic. Else mathematical patterns could not form from chaos.

This is what prompted me to ask the OP question in the first place. The Universe started as CHAOS, but evidently patterns managed to emerge from the original chaos, which we have observed and decribed in Chaos Theory.

The observable self-ordering patterns in nature allowed humans to gain an understanding of "order" and "regularity" which are necessary for durable existence of all abstract objects and their continual expression as physically ordered patterns.

It allowed us to replace the undefinable machinations of Gods with the definable self-ordering properties (potentials) of relational values and their mathematical interactions.

 

[river]

That's backwards.
Everything is based on Logic. Even Chaos contains logic. Else mathematical patterns could not form from chaos.

This is what prompted me to ask the OP question in the first place. The Universe started as CHAOS, but evidently patterns managed to emerge from the original chaos, which we have observed and decribed in Chaos Theory.

The observable self-ordering patterns in nature allowed humans to gain an understanding of "order" and "regularity" which are necessary for durable existence of all abstract objects and their continual expression as physically ordered patterns.

It allowed us to replace the undefinable machinations of Gods with the definable self-ordering properties (potentials) of relational values and their mathematical interactions.

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Logic is based on Knowledge , Write4U .

Chaos is a logic based on nothing .

 

[paddoboy]

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Logic is based on Knowledge , Write4U .

Chaos is a logic based on nothing .

No....Logic is simply a correct way of reasoning, based on known knowledge and principals.
Chaos is a theory based on unpredictability and the reasoning of some order or pattern at the lowest levels, and has practical applications.

 

[river]

river said: ↑
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Logic is based on Knowledge , Write4U .

Chaos is a logic based on nothing .

No....Logic is simply a correct way of reasoning, based on known knowledge and principals.
Chaos is a theory based on unpredictability and the reasoning of some order or pattern at the lowest levels, and has practical applications.

So logic is based on reasoning , fine . What if the knowledge is flawed .

 

[paddoboy]

So logic is based on reasoning , fine . What if the knowledge is flawed .

Simply follow the scientific methodology, and refine the logical reasoning based on new evidence/knowledge.

 

[river]

river said: ↑
So logic is based on reasoning , fine . What if the knowledge is flawed .

Simply follow the scientific methodology, and refine the logical reasoning based on new evidence/knowledge.

So we agree that Knowledge guides the logic .

 

[paddoboy]

So we agree that Knowledge guides the logic .

You can read??

 

[river]

You can read??

What's the problem pad , in my post #252 .

 

[Write4U]

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Logic is based on Knowledge , Write4U .

No, Logic is a system of governing (guiding) principles, such as mathematical functions.

Boolean algebra is algebra of logic. It deals with variables that can have two discrete values, 0 (False) and 1 (True); and operations that have logical significance. The earliest method of manipulating symbolic logic was invented by George Boole and subsequently came to be known as Boolean Algebra.

Boolean algebra has now become an indispensable tool in computer science for its wide applicability in switching theory, building basic electronic circuits and design of digital computers.

https://www.tutorialspoint.com/discrete_mathematics/boolean_expressions_functions.htm#

Chaos is a logic based on nothing .[/QUOTE] Almost. Chaos has no governing principles, any emerging logic is probabilistic ....

 

[river]

river said: ↑
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Logic is based on Knowledge , Write4U .

No, Logic is a system of governing principles, such as mathematics.

1+1=2 , physically no problem , the logic is obvious . Yet mathematics in and of its self can not prove that this is true ; despite the fact that in reality it is true .

Mathematics is a Tool to HELP understand the Universe . Not the authority or the fundamental principle on which the Universe is based .

 

[Write4U]

1+1=2 , physically no problem , the logic is obvious . Yet mathematics in and of its self can not prove that this is true ; despite the fact that in reality it is true .

Yes it can; Mathematical equations are the proofs of logical equivalences.

Mathematics is governed by nonessense.

No, Mathematical logic is the essence of spacetime.

Chaos is a logic based on nothing .

No, Logic emerges from Chaos.

The BB created an initial state of Chaos, from which the logical patterns of spacetime emerged as a result of causal cooling of the initial chaotic superheated condition.

 

[river]

Yes it can; Mathematical equations are the proofs of logical equivalences.
No, Mathematical logic is the essence of spacetime.

Why should space exist , mathematically ? Devoid of physicality .

 

[Michael 345]

Chaos

Chaos is the anthropomorphic name we give to the perfect organisation of stuff by physics because it cannot be in any other arrangement at that moment

 

[Michael 345]

Yes it can; Mathematical equations are the proofs of logical equivalences.
No, Mathematical logic is the essence of spacetime.

No, Logic emerges from Chaos.

The BB created an initial state of Chaos, from which the logical patterns of spacetime emerged as a result of causal cooling of the initial chaotic superheated condition.

No it didn't

It created the perfect organisation of stuff by physics because it could not be in any other arrangement at that moment

Maybe, perhaps, possibly physics were not the same as our current physics but still THEN physics did its THEN physics to perfection