Degrees of Misogyny

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by Bowser, Nov 13, 2015.

  1. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    The word gets a lot of play here, and I think it's tossed around too liberally. I thought it might be worth discussing.
    For me, a misogynist is someone who hates women. I have met one person in my life who absolutely hated women. Every descriptive word he spoke on the subject displayed a deep seated contempt for women. His hostility was so intense that I half believed he had a collection of skulls in his closet. Fortunately the guy was pumping fuel in my car at the time, so I was able to leave without too much interaction. Anyway, below is the definition that Google offered when I queried the word...
    The word has other definitions online, depending on where you look. I think the above best describes my view on the word.
     
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  3. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    That's a given. If Bells or Tiassa hasn't called you a misogynist yet, you're doing something wrong.
     
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  5. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Well, of course you haven't. It's kind of like rape jokes. If you set a low enough bar, everyone and everything passes.

    I had a dispute once with a fellow moderator who wanted to be abusive toward Hispanics. I wrote a post detailing why his argument was racist, which he immediately struck under his authority as a moderator. His argument was that it was acceptable to denigrate people according to their ethnicity, but calling out racism was an unacceptable personal attack.

    Strangely, he never bothered arguing that his argument wasn't racist.

    Then again, it is clear throughout his record here that he doesn't think of himself as a racist.

    Look, David Duke could try telling me he's never met a person who absolutely hated blacks, and the only way I could believe him is under the standard that he doesn't find a given behavior racist or hateful. I recall a Sciforums member from around 2003; he wasn't genocidal even though he wanted to kill all the Arabs, because he didn't want to kill them all; rather, he wanted to keep a few of the women alive if they were hot enough to fuck. And therein lies the trap: If the standard itself is racist?

    Why escalate to absolute hatred? The part about prejudice is what draws so much of the question around here. Then again, if your consideration requires absolute hatred, the definition thereof is conveniently personal.

    If the definition you provided "best describes [your] view on the word [misogyny]", please do attend it.
     
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  7. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Mod Hat ― Splinter notice

    Five posts from this thread have been splintered to the Cesspool↗ as an unnecessary digression. Noted for the record.
     
  8. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    The "contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against" aspect of the meaning is what you want to mull over.

    Sometimes it's easier to see in a foreign culture, sort of training your ear by starting with jarring or obvious examples rather than the stuff you've grown used to as background in the US, like in your church. Try Saudi descriptions of women who pilot airplanes in the US military.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2015
  9. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Several years ago I found myself writing a post↗ in which I found myself responding to several specific statements:

    "girls who dress like sluts are asking for it"

    "i know men should act responsibly, but we're literally animals. animals don't ask permission."

    "again, rape is bad. but if you pull the pin out of a grenade, is it your fault or the grenade's when it blows up?"

    There were others, too, but this is the thing about ideas we might hear from time to time―

    "I believe we are entering a radical element with the "Rape Culture" rally call. It truly makes men, all men, look like savages by nature. It's an insult to our gender and to our culture. I don't buy into it."

    "Most men are not rapists and I dont support portraying them that way i.e. rape culture and I will ridicule attempts made to do so."

    ―that essentially comes down to an indignant, pouting #NotAllMen.

    The thing about that old post is that the attitude itself didn't stand out as especially unusual. Sometimes I think it's become fashionable to do that children's bit where you say, "Where? Where? I don't see anything? What are you talking about? Where?" while refusing to actually look at whatever it is you're pretending to not see.

    You're familiar, I think, with the notion of the Guardians of Female Chastity. It plays into Infinite Prevention Advice. Not so long ago↗ I had occasion to point our inquiring neighbor to a 2013 thread↗. Indeed, the topic post contains several examples of rape culture that are not especially unfamiliar by their forms and devices. And I just can't help but think that we're witnessing a square zero stunt, in which setting things back to square one just isn't good enough. Look at the topic post↗ of the rape culture thread; it asks a question. Answers are offered, but the querient doesn't want to discuss those terms, instead invoking some phantom inspiring a hearty round of #NotAllMen.

    It's a setup.

    It's bullshit.

    What happens now? We have an inquiry↑ about "contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against" women, and a quick rush to establish a line against misogyny↑. So what happens now? Is this just another square zero lamentation?

    I can only reiterate↑ that the whole thing reminds me of the time one of my colleagues tried to enforce the rules to protect racist posting while reserving discussions of the racism as personal attacks. I would hope to be wrong.
     
  10. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    Still, it gets a lot of play when discussing women's issues.

    Examples in the U.S.? I don't believe recognizing the differences between genders as being misogynistic. Women posses characteristics that men don't. That's what makes them unique.
     
  11. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Sure.

    When you run into that line of yak in the Saudi descriptions of US female pilots, soldiers, etc, it may be easier to recognize. Try it.
     
  12. Bells Staff Member

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    Sometimes it is better to let them simply let it all out so they expose themselves without any help, then it leaves them nowhere else to hide behind. No more excuses. No one else to blame for it... Sometimes, it's better to be able to turn around and remind them how this was all on them.. And sometimes, it's more a case of preferring to slash my wrists with a rusted spoon than discuss this subject with certain individuals again.
     
  13. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    Saudis are pretty distant. I think just pointing at Muslim culture would be sufficient.
     
  14. tali89 Registered Senior Member

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    'Misogynist' is just another label used to brow-beat ideological dissidents into silence.
     
  15. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    That seems to be the intent. But I believe people truly believe it when they say it. Again, I've met one in my lifetime, but my definition isn't very broad as it pertains to my culture.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2015
  16. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Do you understand why?

    Again: approach from the outsider perspective. Saudi, Yemeni. Don't just point - listen to them talk and explain themselves.
     
  17. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Being a misogynist isn't some kind of badge of honour. You're not being a brave ideological dissident just because you hate women.
     
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  18. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    The Obvious Question

    Let us try a straightforward question:

    Do you acknowledge that women are human beings and have human rights, full stop?

    If the answer is anything other than yes, you are probably treading in misogynistic territory.
     
  19. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    So is "slave owner".
     
  20. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    I do believe women posses every right that are given men. Why do you ask?
     
  21. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Agreed. But often being CALLED a misogynist here is.

    On another science forum I was recently called a "clueless idiot" for my discussion of wireless power transfer. (This came from someone who believed that all radiation, including VLF EM radiation, was ionizing.) In a way, being called a clueless idiot by such a person was heartening; it meant that I was excluded from their woo, which is a good position to be in.
     
  22. pjdude1219 screw watergate i want to know about zaragate Valued Senior Member

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    Only by people who hate women
     
  23. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Is It Really So Hard to Say?

    It is misogynist to define women according to men as you have.

    Once again: Do you acknowledge that women are human beings and have human rights, full stop?
     

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